Finney LNER A1/A3 in 4mm

[Michael Edge]

On 06/11/2022 at 13:36, sjp23480 said:

Its interesting to see just how substantial the slide bars are, esp when compared to RTR and some other kit manufacturers - where just a sliver of brass/nickel silver suffices.

 

Great Work Dave - coming along very nicely indeed.

Slidebars are a lot wider than most modellers think, about 5" is usual. I think this is the best way to reproduce them although it can seem a bit of a faff assembling all the laminations, I do it in much the same way for most of our kits.

[k22009]

Now that it appears the chassis runs ok with the old Romford wheels i've been working on the Gibson wheels that are intended for the build. I very often use Romford crankpins with Gibsons as the Gibson sleeves mean drilling a larger piece of coupling rod and sometimes they don't seem concentic anyway. So i've opted this time to use M1 x 8 csk screws, M1 brass nuts and if needed i have some very thin wall tube that would act as a sleeve at 1 dia x  0.1mm wall.

I always ream gently the back of the wheel at the crankpin location with a larger drill bit so the head of the screw doesn't protrude, i generally then add the crankpin adding a dab of superglue before seating fully. I then drill a hole using the slot in the head as a guide at about 45 degrees and add a 0.45mm wire pin to lock the crankpin in place so it won't rotate. This is especially useful for the return crank on the middle axle as this can then be tightened up better without fear of the crankpin releasing it's superglue bond and rotating.

 

 

 

I didn't take a photo of pinning the crankpin but this is one from a Claughton wheel.

 

 

The wheels are not quartered on this loco but the R/H wheels lead by 120 degrees so 1/3 of a circle, this is ultimately a guess when first pressing the wheels on, but by doing 4 wheels first then the final axle it doesn't take long to get it running nicely. Balance weights are etched and fit perfectly there is a diagram (as with most of the build areas) that show how both sides are positioned.

With the wheels fitted along with washers,  hornblock bearings and gearbox to the rear axle i once again assembled all of the components, connecting rods are just loosely positioned and not yet fixed to the crossheads which will need a small amount trimming from the piston rod. Without reaming any of the coupling rod holes it runs like a dream under hand power.

It is a big advantage to have the major components removable so i can paint each assembly seperately when the time comes.

 

 

 

I'd like to fit the motor and pickups to test it running under power before starting on the valve gear, the gearbox is a High Level HiFlier (in the final photo it's just flopped over as there is no restraint fitted yet). I had envisaged fitting wiper pickups to the upper part of the frames behind the where the splashers will be as it's getting busy underneath and i'd like to leave that clear in case i find more info about the injector pipework routes, but to do that i need to have the footplate assembly so i can make sure nothing will foul them. So i may just leave the chassis for a while and start on forming the footplate.

Edited November 10, 2022 by k22009
spelling

[Michael Edge]

I always use Romford crankpins in Gibson wheels, drilled and tapped 10BA. I do try to only fit Gibson wheels once though. I've built locos from this Finney kit before, it's fiddly but the results are excellent in the end as I'm sure yours will be. My biggest and loudest complaint is the way that small parts are located round the edges of holes in the footplate - you have to cut them out at the start and then have to remember what they are much later. If they had been attached together inside the hole they would remain identifiable after removing.

[JeffP]

Can I suggest one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354368384339?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=lm-3ltpmr_q&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=SR2mx3FtSk2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

Seven colour coded small drawers, each having four sealable compartments, so no accidental spills.

Have a small notebook and keep a record of what's in each compartment.

[k22009]

43 minutes ago, JeffP said:

Have a small notebook and keep a record of what's in each compartment.

 

Thanks Jeff i like it, however above lies the problem.

[k22009]

17 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

 My biggest and loudest complaint is the way that small parts are located round the edges of holes in the footplate - you have to cut them out at the start and then have to remember what they are much later. If they had been attached together inside the hole they would remain identifiable after removing.

 

I agree Mike, even for the sake of an additional etch with all of the small parts on it would have made a better design in my opinion.

 

Below is the etch for the footplate and valences.

 

 

[John Isherwood]

8 minutes ago, k22009 said:

 

I agree Mike, even for the sake of an additional etch with all of the small parts on it would have made a better design in my opinion.

 

Below is the etch for the footplate and valences.

 

 

 

Perhaps a photocopy of the etch, and the components attached to it with, say, Copydex glue as they are detached?

 

CJI.

[Michael Edge]

2 hours ago, JeffP said:

Can I suggest one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354368384339?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=lm-3ltpmr_q&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=SR2mx3FtSk2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

Seven colour coded small drawers, each having four sealable compartments, so no accidental spills.

Have a small notebook and keep a record of what's in each compartment.

I imagine that's something like the idea with this - but speaking as a professional builder it's an unbelievable/unnecessary waste of time, as is another problem with these kits, searching round and round the diagrams for randomly numbered parts....

[Camperdown]

20 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

I imagine that's something like the idea with this - but speaking as a professional builder it's an unbelievable/unnecessary waste of time, as is another problem with these kits, searching round and round the diagrams for randomly numbered parts....

Been there, done that.

 

Usually where there are several, small, identical parts, only one is numbered on the diagram.  Once you've found that and clocked the shape of the part, you need to hunt for the others, and they might be on a different fret.

 

Cutting out the running plate, say, which is needed early in the build, releases a whole load of other parts.  My method is to cut out all the orphan parts and put them in sealed envelopes, each labelled with the part number.  Not perfect, but I've not lost a part yet.

 

[k22009]

Before i get to grips with anything else i have attached the injectors and pipework. These are unusually not included in the kit, so i have used a Stanier set from Wizard models with a few additional pipes added. The injector pipework has to be removable in order to be able to get the wheels out so i will make the pipe in 2 sections, the injectors will need to be soldered to the rear frame spacer. 

 

The front of the exhaust steam injector has had a 2mm dia hole drilled to take a tube 2mm dia x 1.5mm i/d as the main pipe is 1.5 dia, this is just long enough to take the end of the injector pipe which will secure the rear end.

The pipe has been bent to go around the screw which locates the radial truck and will be soldered to this. I've also made a joint from another piece of 2 dia pipe that will fit to the front of the rear pipe, the front pipe will then locate into this. I can't complete the front pipe as i need to fit the slide bar and radius link brackets. (it will hopefully be fitted to these brackets).

 

 

The pipe is bent to miss the gearbox and goes under both the brake assembly and the keeper plates to allow the wheels to be removed.

 

 

[k22009]

I've cut out most of the parts within the footplate and valance frame etches and stored them, there were only a couple i couldn't identify so hopefully these will become clearer as there's less parts left to assemble. 

The valences are etched as part of an assembly frame and will form a good solid base to work on the footplate. 

 

 

I marked the approximate centres of where the curves need to be formed and slowly worked on each one until the footplate fitted ice and snug on top of the valences which fit into a half etched recess.

 

 

 

With this done i added the frame extensions and front lower footplate, there's a few details to add to this area but i'll do that later, the lamp irons are a fold up item and had to be done now,  they will probably get knocked about but hopefully they'll survive man handling.

 

 

[Michael Edge]

1 hour ago, k22009 said:

I've cut out most of the parts within the footplate and valance frame etches and stored them, there were only a couple i couldn't identify so hopefully these will become clearer as there's less parts left to assemble. 

 

 

Any idea how long that took you? Instead of the designer having the wit to tie all the little parts together in the hole.....

On the other hand my howls of rage at having to put up with this sort of nonsense when I'm building kits led directly to Judith's suggestion "you design decent kits and I'll sell them". Our very first kit had some small parts inside a hole in the footplate but it is done like this:

[k22009]

4 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Any idea how long that took you?

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

I'd guess all told it was probably a couple of hours, but some of that was adding more plasticard seperators to a small box i had to make enough compartments. It has however made me look at the parts and they are organised now so i can find them a bit easier.

 

[Michael Edge]

I rest my case….

[JeffP]

Having spoken to one or two etched kit designers, and read the thoughts of others, it was my understanding that using every available space on the etch led to savings in cost.

Is that not the case, or perhaps not as important as I'd understood?

[Michael Edge]

I agree, we try to use every available bit of the space but the illustration above shows that the kit designer can spend another five minutes or so on the etch or condemn the builder to two hours of unnecessary work. Another unnecessary irritation is the placing of tags on the parts, most kit designers put them anywhere (and often far too many as well) without any thought as to how they will be cut out - if they are on the inside of a curve they can't be snipped off and need to be filed down - put them somewhere else please. I believe that my job is to make things as easy as possible for the builder, that's why they have bought a kit rather than scratchbuilt it all.

[Bucoops]

I think etch design and the logic behind laying it out has come a long way. I'm sure any design can be improved (and I've seen some howlers but equally I've seen some real design-clever to coin a phrase ;)). Loose tiny parts are incredibly irritating but as long as the kit comes with a clear layout of what is what and you keep a suitable divided spill proof storage box handy it's not too bad.

 

I will add I've not seen one of your designs, Michael.

[k22009]

Splashers have been added, these are quite a neat design with the footplate fitting into a half etched recess on the splasher front, the tops have a flap that needs rivets pressing out before this is located into a half etched recess on the footplate. I'm wondering though that the lip (about 1mm) that now sits below the footplate may well foul the wheels so this may need to be removed at a later date. Also added were the valve guide covers, the tops are an overlay that sits onto a frame that is soldered to the footplate first.

 

We were then into small part country, the hinges for the access covers on the front of the footplate and the pot lubricators needed adding. The lubricators will have some thin 0.3 ish copper wire soldered into them at a later date for all of the feeds to various locations under the footplate (copper wire will bend easily), but before this i needed to drill each of the 8 pots 3 times with a 0.3mm drill to suit the copper wire. The magnifying headband i bought donkies ago was very useful here as i could hardly see the ports that the drill needed to start at without it. I was expecting a battle but they all went ok with just the one drill bit. On the bottom of the pot lubricator support legs are approx 0.4mm dia locating lugs (the castings are very good indeed), there are locations marked on the valve covers for the positioning of these but the holes needed drilling to locate these into (something not mentioned in the instructions). Once drilled they provide a good sturdy locator so that with the pots support legs tinned they could be soldered to the valve guide cover top from the rear. The hinges for the access covers likewise were tinned before holding in place with fine tweezers and soldering in situ. 

 

The copper wire thickness below is 0.3mm so that gives an idea of size.

 

 

[lezz01]

Hi Dave.

Good to see that the drilling went OK.

Regards Lez.

[k22009]

25 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Hi Dave.

Good to see that the drilling went OK.

Regards Lez.

 

Cheers Lez, yes it went very well, i wanted to drill them through so that i can solder the copper wire from the rear of the lubricators when i get to that stage, it's an easy clean up operation then especially as it's not seen.

[JeffP]

Did you drill with a pinchuck, or a Dremel-type?

[k22009]

15 minutes ago, JeffP said:

Did you drill with a pinchuck, or a Dremel-type?

 

Hi Jeff,

 

I have a 240v Proxon that i use for the drilling, the castings that came with the kit are quite hard (maybe a brass alloy?), i'd guess using a pinchuck would be possible, though it may take some time and even the slightest movement with a 0.3mm bit would break it. Ideally the use of a drill stand would be the way to go but i don't have one. Just trying to see what your drilling was the most challenging thing.

[k22009]

The firebox is supported by an etched cage, i added a couple of pieces of scrap etch over where the cab/forebox locating holes are. Martin suggests using a rod here to locate the boiler assembly to the cab front but i think i'll screw it on, so the extra thicknesses will allow me to tap the holes.

 

 

The firebox is very thin as its half etched so needs to be handled with some care, it has the the mudhole doors on seperate strips that fit to the rear, the clamp handles will be fitted later. The mudhole doors aren't the easiest of things to line up as once you have them laid down on the inside of the etch you can't see the etched hole locations, so a small tacke first until they are correct. The washout covers will be added afterwards from the outside (i need to add an additional one each side) along with the handrail knobs.  With the cage inside there's not a lot of room to solder the rear and front formers from the inside 

 

 

 

[DougN]

Dave your doing a wonderful job there. The fire boxes are a bit fiddly!... at least the A1/A3's have a datum of a front and rear edge. I am, or should I say have been building 2 Martin finney V2's for a number of years. I seem to get distracted by other things.... The first year of the pair went very well being year 1 of Covid. The second year all I built was Wills kits and buildings from Wills sheets 🙄... I need to get back to the V2's. Your build is very straight and lovely. 👍 

 

I found with all the smaller bits hard to keep track of them, and that is why when I received the second V2 I found that it was quicker to build as there was less "Where's Wally" looking for the parts also knowing what to expect also resulted in the skills and amount to open out etc reduced. I ended up using take away boxes to put the parts in and a A3 pocket book for the instructions so that it was easy to flick back and forward to the diagrams and keep the etches in between the pages... another option would have been to sticky tape the bits onto the plastic so they couldnt escape! 

 

All the best

[k22009]

15 hours ago, DougN said:

Dave your doing a wonderful job there. The fire boxes are a bit fiddly!... at least the A1/A3's have a datum of a front and rear edge. I am, or should I say have been building 2 Martin finney V2's for a number of years. I seem to get distracted by other things.... The first year of the pair went very well being year 1 of Covid. The second year all I built was Wills kits and buildings from Wills sheets 🙄... I need to get back to the V2's. Your build is very straight and lovely. 👍 

 

Thanks Doug i have been watching your duo of V2 builds over on the Scalefour forum.

 

I rolled both the smokebox and tapered boiler sections, again they are half etched and form very easily. There is a neat joining plate that fits inside both, it incorporates the boiler band tensioning brackets that fit through etched slots in the boiler/smokebox bases (i've folded over the small brackets in the photo to the smaller section).

 

 

Once you have the smokebox or boiler soldered up with the joint strip then you add the formers at each end, the open ones are fitted first enabling the solid ones to be soldered from the inside then. Two short  0.7mm dowels fit into locating holes between the firebox and tapered boiler and the smokebox to tapered boiler have a central hole where you fit a 10ba screw between them. It all fits without the need for any fettling of any kind. The only awkward piece to fit was the former at the firebox end of the tapered boiler which because of the locating dowels needed positioning very accurately.

 

 

 

The brackets pinned with0.3mm wire.