Mayflower Dock

[TrevorP1]

 

For over 18 months now I’ve been wondering what to do with the spare Tim Horn baseboard (left over from a long gone diorama) lurking underneath my layout. The idea of a small ‘bonus’ layout appealed particularly as it will sit happily on a small wheeled cupboard I use for storage. It can also come indoors to be worked on at the kitchen table or in my den upstairs.

 

The question was what to do. About this time last year I was set on something Lynton and Barnstaple but I couldn’t see how I could make a 5’ x 1’ board look like Exmoor so the idea was shelved. For some reason thoughts turned to a more sensible dockside scene and I began looking at the railways of Plymouth. My mind rambled on thinking that perhaps if I just changed the stock it could also become my old home town of Southampton. Why, I could even call it ‘Mayflower Quay’ and have a pub called ‘The Pilgrims Rest’!

 

Eventually I decided that the Southampton scenario appealed and although it would have to be totally ‘make believe’ - and microscopic compared to the real thing - I felt I could give it a flavour of my old home town. I’m conscious that Graham Muz of this parish also has a ‘Southampton Layout’ and I hope mine will be different enough that it is not seen as ‘clone’.

 

Then a few days ago, as if by some weird act of the modelling gods, Accurascale announced the banana vans and gave me an easy, totally authentic and characteristic idea for a reason to be. Another building for unloading New Zealand Lamb would complete the picture.

 

So the name. Much as I liked Mayflower Quay I settled on Banana Wharf. I’ve since discovered there is local restaurant chain of that name but if any of their management read this and decide that my tiny efforts have infringed some copyright or other I’ll take that as a compliment!

 

The plan is below and I think it’s self explanatory except that the fiddle yard (cassette based) is on the right. It will be perfectly feasible to add another on the left and I may well do this if the layout is a success. I hope to base the structure marked ‘Ruin’  on the Watergate or Gods House Tower - both being Southampton Town Quay landmarks.

 

Much of the track and some of the electrics will be spare from Burngullow Lane but the three extra points I need are due to arrive tomorrow. I already have the aluminium channel for the cassettes, a Dapol B4, a Dapol banana van in need of the proper chassis, plus the controllers can simply be plugged into one layout or the other.

 

Now there a thread I’m committed but expect progress to be slow!

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by TrevorP1
Change of Thread Name

[TrevorP1]

Just a very quick post but there was me saying progress would be slow!

 

Some track down already. (Well, those points would have been damaged leaving them laying around 😉  Code 75 for simplicity plus I had a fair bit spare includiing two points left over from previous iterations of the Burngullow Lane fiddle yard. In any case much of  it is likely to be 'buried' in one way or another.

 

[Nick C]

Following with interest - I've got a plan for a Southampton docks layout to go above my desk here that I've been working on for the past week or so - funnily enough I've settled on almost exactly the same trackplan, albeit flipped left-to-right!

[TrevorP1]

Nick's post reminded me that I had a photo with all the track work in place.

 

I'm a dab hand at taking photos for a post and forgetting, by which time more work is done so I take more photos, forget to post again... and repeat.

 

To gauge how it will look, the B4 is posed next to a spare piece of Walthers kit.  I'd love to use the ready made brick wall but it doesn't look like any part of Southampton Docks that I know of! Whilst waiting for electrical bits and pieces to arrive I'm currently sketching out warehouse ideas based on photos from the Old Docks. (If you lived in Southampton 'back in the day', it was Old Docks and New Docks, none of the Western and Eastern Docks nonsense! 

 

Another thing that will need thought is couplings. I'd like to be able to run the stock on the 'big layout' as well which means couplings need to be compatible. Burngullow lane has very little need of uncoupling 'on scene' and my goods stock has remounted - much closer -  tension locks and so I'd like to use something based on this. Somewhere I've heard of a system that adapted the bottom part of a tension lock hook so that it could be raised by a magnet. I tried this with some spare bits and pieces and it seems like it will work. Does anyone know where I could find more information please?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nick C]

There's a thread on here about the couplings somewhere - basically it involves gluing a bit of bent staple to the bottom of the hook so that it's pulled down (and so the hook lifted) by a neodymium magnet between the sleepers.

 

I've found a few useful drawings on the Southampton Council planning site, certain buildings on some of the Itchen wharves that were rebuilt or altered in the 50s and 60s, happy to share the list with you by PM if you want? 

 

Nick

[5BarVT]

Think if you search for Brian Kirby Couplings (or BK couplings) you’ll find what you’re looking for.

Paul.

[TrevorP1]

13 hours ago, Nick C said:

There's a thread on here about the couplings somewhere - basically it involves gluing a bit of bent staple to the bottom of the hook so that it's pulled down (and so the hook lifted) by a neodymium magnet between the sleepers.

 

I've found a few useful drawings on the Southampton Council planning site, certain buildings on some of the Itchen wharves that were rebuilt or altered in the 50s and 60s, happy to share the list with you by PM if you want? 

 

Nick

 

 

Thanks, Nick. The list could be useful if you could PM me a copy.

 

Whether the buildings turn out to be kit bashes, bitsas, or completely scratch built, I want them to look like something so that anyone who knows the area will be able to say, "Oh yes, that's from Southampton Docks". Of course they will be minute (and out of position) in comparison to the real thing but I hope to get a likeness.

 

These books are useful, particularly 'Southern Rails.... Also websites like Southampton Collections Online, Banana Trade where half way down the page there is a photo of the Golfito with the buildings of berth 24 or 25 in the background. Most published pictures seem to be of the New Docks which was much more accessible.

 

I'm also wondering about the cold store building (berth 40?) in the old docks. Apparently it got a direct hit in WW2 and I don't know if anything survived. I've been in the one in the New Docks during a plant engineering college course - a long time ago! Out lecturer just said "bring a coat" -25C took your breath away!

 

[TrevorP1]

12 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Think if you search for Brian Kirby Couplings (or BK couplings) you’ll find what you’re looking for.

Paul.

 

Thanks, Paul, I'll do some searching.

[TrevorP1]

Coming back to the uncoupling topic. Now that I know what looking for there is lots of information out there.

 

The replacement tension lock hooks from PH Designs look very neat and cheap enough for the limited number of wagons I'm thinking of. The choice of neodymium magnets is almost mind boggling but I'm going to try something that can simply be buried in the ballast between sleepers. There's no rush and I've plenty of time for 'off layout' experiments using odd lengths of track fixed to spare bits of ply. Hopefully I can avoid electro magnets and the resulting spaghetti and expense.

[St Enodoc]

On 14/10/2022 at 04:51, TrevorP1 said:

the fiddle yard (cassette based) is on the right. It will be perfectly feasible to add another on the left

I think you'll need both, for the Ocean Liner Specials...

[Cwmtwrch]

5 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

I'm also wondering about the cold store building (berth 40?) in the old docks. Apparently it got a direct hit in WW2 and I don't know if anything survived

Completely destroyed, according to Hansard 16/3/1950, on which date the site had been cleared but rebuilding had not started.

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Completely destroyed, according to Hansard 16/3/1950, on which date the site had been cleared but rebuilding had not started.

 

That's interesting, thank you. I've just had a look at that and it's spurred me to search a bit deeper.

 

I've just found a link on BBC People's War where it is stated that the building burned for 2 or 3 days. I've also located two photos of the building on the Southampton Memories Facebook Group, one of the building pre war and another of the fire. The group is 'private' so there's not much point in posting a link.

 

I'm pretty sure, but not 100% certain, that the replacement cold store was in the New Docks. The 1949 - 1971 National Library of Scotland map certainly shows a big gap at berth 40 and there is nothing there now. A quick skim through Southern Rails on Southampton Docks didn't give any clues but I haven't yet had a chance to sit down properly with it.

 

It would have been in the late '70s when we were in there on the college course and my memory tells me it was in the New Docks. The only things I can really recall are the penetrating cold after a couple of minutes and the smell of ammonia that was used for the refrigerant.

[TrevorP1]

Continuing from the last posts just a few snippets on the real Southampton Docks. 

 

I've finally begun to get into Southern Rails on Southampton Docks and my memory did serve correctly. It seems the new cold store opened in 1958 adjacent to berth 108 in the new docks.

 

For those interested, the Elders Fyffe's facebook group (public) contains a good few images of vessels in Southampton where the sheds on berths 24 & 25 can be seen in the background. I think I've got a pretty good enough idea now  to build a corner of a very junior version.

 

While searching for images I came across a lot of information on the Ocean Dock. I don't think its of direct use to me but for the record this Flickr album  contains images taken by an American Serviceman on his way home after WW2.  Operation Magic Carpet. They are dark but can be improved. I found  this one   somewhat poignant. I wondered what the men were thinking?

 

Of perhaps more direct use for modellers is this page on a  Titanic web site which has a cross sectional drawing of the sheds at berths 43 and 44. Anyone contemplating a model of this will need an awful lot of room!

 

 

[TrevorP1]

At first glance this photo doesn't look a great deal different to the one above but the clue is the row of switches poking through the piece of spare MDF. In a burst of activity over the last couple of days the point motors have been fitted and everything wired up. Much to my amazement everything worked first time and I even got the wiring for the crossings the right way round. (Luck!).

 

A priority is to get a couple of temporary barriers fixed to the end before something plunges to the floor and then make a proper mounting for the switches. For simplicity I want to keep everything permanently attached to the board so the switches will be on a 'panel' that will be semi hidden in the wall of a building.

 

Some may be feeling that the split power supply is a bit of an overkill on something like this. At first I was going to go down the 'finger poke' system of point control but soon thought that as a lot of the track is going to be buried, relying on blade electrical contact wouldn't be a good idea. So having decided on power worked points it seemed best to keep everything the same as Burngullow Lane. Although three of the points plus the point motors and their power supply are new, everything else is 'recycled' or spare in some way. I've even robbed my programming track of the DCC socket but this layout can quite happily serve as my programming track.

 

 

 

[sb67]

Looking very good Trevor, I'm following this with interest 🙂

[TrevorP1]

Another couple of bursts of activity has seen the housing for the point switches almost complete plus good progress on the backscene boards. I'm surprising myself at the useful stuff I have stashed away that may 'come in handy'. The ply for the backscene boards has come from a diorama which had to be dismantled when I moved house. The sky sheet is the top half of a sheet left over from Burngullow Lane and was installed today with indispensable assistance from the lady of the house.

 

My thoughts on the cargo sheds have changed a little since I started working out more exact sizes of these things and how a reasonable impression might fit. When I blew up to 4mm scale the drawing from the Titanic website mentioned above it seems made to fit at the end where I'd planned for the fruit shed to be. There seems no point in fighting it to fit at the other end so it will be as in the photo. The fruit shed will therefore be at the other end - plan below.

 

Before there is any more talk of 12 foot fiddle yards for boat trains, that is not the plan! Having said that I do have a Southern BY and I've seen a photo of a Brit on a special at Eastleigh. I've always fancied a Brit for Burngullow Lane...

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by TrevorP1
To remove nonsense!

[TrevorP1]

Some productive modelling time in the last couple of days, but first things first.

 

I've decided to go back to my original idea of having 'Mayflower' in the name of the project if for no other reason that it gives it a sense of place. After all 'Banana Wharf' might have been in the Caribbean (actually that could  be an interesting laout...). Also 'Dock' because there are several places in the real Southampton Docks using the term, for instance Empress dock, Ocean Dock etc.

 

As for practical work I've been playing around with bits of card and wood to rough out the shape and size of the buildings. Neat squares on plan are all very well but how does it look? For the bigger one with 30064 in the shot I started off by looking at the old Ocean Dock and the Union Castle berths. Just a minute corner but it's an impression. The piece of square timber is where part of a gangway will go to help as a view blocker. I think I shall make provision for a small cassette system here 'just in case' - it would be nice to have an engine and a van just run through the scene. 

 

The building covering the switch panel will be modelled on the end of one of the banana import berths used by Fyffes. 

 

 

 

Along the backscene I hope to produce images and very low relief impressions with a local flavour. I have in mind part of The Watergate or Gods House Tower plus the section of that building used by 'Southern Marine Radio'.  However... I couldn't resist the goods office from Plymouth Barbican now produced as an excellent item by Scale Model Scenery. OK it's Plymouth but the architecture is also similar to old Southampton. Scale Model Scenery will produce various versions of lettering and I chose Southern Railway. I did a rough scan for playing about purposes saving the product for the final installation.

 

Incidentally I'm thinking od using 2mm MDF for the shells of the buildings. Any thoughts?

 

[AdeMoore]

Great start Trevor, liking this a lot.

keep em coming!

[Stubby47]

On 15/11/2022 at 16:50, TrevorP1 said:

Incidentally I'm thinking od using 2mm MDF for the shells of the buildings. Any thoughts

2mm would be fine for smaller buildings, but 3mm is better for the larger items.

 

This is a prototype factory /warehouse for Scale Model Scenery,  using 3mm mdf.

 

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, Stubby47 said:

2mm would be fine for smaller buildings, but 3mm is better for the larger items.

 

This is a prototype factory /warehouse for Scale Model Scenery,  using 3mm mdf.

 

 

 

Thanks Stubby. I've just bought a small supply of 2mm and I have some 3mm left over from other jobs so I'm going to give it ago.

 

I'm also intending to give brick papers a try as well, something I've fought shy of in the past.  I'm happy painting stonework but I have neither the patience nor ability to do large areas of brickwork - a signal box is my limit!

 

[TrevorP1]

Much butchery of cardboard mock-ups lately but a quick photo update to mark progress. The photo below shows the 'right hand' side of the layout. On the left is what I think is called 'Gods House Gate' near Southampton's Town Quay. This will be 2D and probably use a Google Street view image - as is the mock up here. Near the Ford van (borrowed from Burngullow Lane!) will probably be the dock gate. The van is next to a 'Petite Properties' pub and adjoining this are the premises of Ocean Trading who were about ¼ mile from the docks. In fact this business was next to a hotel/pub called the Globe but here the similarity ends although the building is scaled from a photo in my copy of 'Southampton Since 1945'.

 

 

The  photo below  shows the beginnings ot one of the dock buildings in MDF, loosely based on a corner of one of the Union Castle buildings at Berth 34. Next to Gods House Gate will be the premises of Solent Marine Radio who 'back in the day' occupied part of the set of historic buildings. In those days the ancient stonework was covered with white paint! Having looked at this carefully since the photo was taken, these buildings need to be about 90% of the size shown here.

 

 

Finally, the 'banana shed' is taking shape, again in MDF,  with the photo showing how the point control switches are incorporated. 

 

I'm spending time on the buildings at this stage so that I can lay out the areas of inset track and road with having to dig it up again to put a building in. That's the theory anyway...!

 

Finally, I should also mention that the Southampton Archive Website has been very useful with hundreds, if not thousands, of images of the docks area.

 

[Nick C]

Coming on well! Mine still hasn't left the drawing board...

[TrevorP1]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

Coming on well! Mine still hasn't left the drawing board...

An advantage of being retired Nick. There’s got to be some benefit in getting old(er)!

To be honest I have put a lot of time into it over the last few days. I’m finding it much harder ‘making something up’ than with Burngullow where there was a prototype to follow even if I had to change it (a lot) to make it fit the space.

[TrevorP1]

Winter is clamping down in Welsh Wales and whilst the railway shed is well insulated it takes about an hour to get warm enough to work so with today's energy costs I've been glad of indoor jobs. I've got some wagon kits put by for Burngullow Lane but for the moment it's buildings for the docks.

 

I haven't been happy with the way things were beginning to look around the dock gate/road entrance to the layout, so my poor little brain has been on overtime this week trying to work something out. It's never easy - for me at least - to blend a road into the backscene especially when there is about ½" to do it. To complicate matters, I also want to include some kind of historic building of which there are several near Southampton Docks. 

 

The latest I have come up with is this which currently sitting on a table in the spare room. Once I'd found the stone building on Street View  - Southampton's 'Westgate' - it came together quickly. Perhaps this is telling me something! Obviously, inappropriate modern bits would be removed. The MDF pub is clamped to the first piece of scrap MDF I could find. There will be a 2D building on the left, whether it's that one remains to be seen. On the layout there will be a dock gate and perhaps a vehicle in front of the pub.

 

Doing this kind of thing in the countryside is *so* much easier, just plonk a bush or tree where it gets difficult!

 

Any thoughts folks?

 

 

Nearly forgot. I have actually made something this week... Two building frontages from the area near the docks. The building on the left still exists but is now restored. In the 1950s (as will be the model) it was covered in some kind of white(ish) masonry paint. The right hand one was demolished by the early 1960s. (Crop of an old photo below). 

 

 

[Booking Hall]

I'm really liking this, and the way it is developing.