Hornby announce TT:120

[spamcan61]

I notice a two page advert for the TT:120 sets in the current (#318) edition of Rail Express, so they haven't blown the entire advertising budget on the Sunday supplements!

[Ravenser]

56 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

I notice a two page advert for the TT:120 sets in the current (#318) edition of Rail Express, so they haven't blown the entire advertising budget on the Sunday supplements!

 

Railway enthusiasts, who may well not be active in model railways. It's a rational target group for the product. 

[Porfuera]

25 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

Railway enthusiasts, who may well not be active in model railways. It's a rational target group for the product. 

 

When I subscribed to Rail Express magazine it used to contain a supplement magazine called Rail Express Modeller - or have they stopped that now...?

 

Cheers, Neil

[Les1952]

8 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

Have you seen the flanges in N?  But Peco code55 seems to cope, and I'm not aware of any issues.

 

TT-120 wheels are going to have deeper-looking flanges than we are used to in OO , simply because in a smaller scale you won't be scaling down an RP25/110 wheelset pro-rata. So long as the flanges are no deeper than N in absolute terms there is no issue

 

Also - remember that Hornby have an existing TT involvement via Arnold on the Continent . There is no obvious reason to use coarser wheel than they already use on Arnold TT. Peco will have had those to play with , along with samples of Tillig and Roco, when designing the track

 

All the signs are that Hornby are simply taking established NEM TT standards as used on the Continent and applying them to this range

 

 

If they are to sell the range on the Continent (as they have said they will with Arnold-boxed Class 66 and others) they will have to do just that.

 

Les

 

[Ravenser]

25 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

When I subscribed to Rail Express magazine it used to contain a supplement magazine called Rail Express Modeller - or have they stopped that now...?

 

Cheers, Neil

 

It may carry a modelling supplement, but I doubt if more than a small fraction of the readership have a layout themselves. 

 

Railway enthusiasts, open to the hobby , but not in it or only in it marginally , could be a promising group to target. It will be interesting to see if they advertise in  Railway Magazine, Steam Railway, Traction etc etc as well.

 

Similarly , if you display the range at a centenary event at KX , there's a reasonable chance the people there are interested by trains and might be open to buying a model train that ties in..

 

Airfix Model World and other plastic kit building magazines might be another target 

 

[Robin Brasher]

Kitmaster did make some locomotive and coach kits to go with the Tri-ang TT range.  I have just watched Simon Kohler's interview with Howard Smith.  I don't think that TT does anything that N gauge cannot do and I also think that TT gauge is too big. a 4'6" x 3'6" board is too heavy for one person to carry and I think the maximum size board that will fit in my car is 4' 6" x 3'3" whereas my 4'6" x 2'6" N gauge layout will fit in my car and I can carry it down my stairs. I did ask my group of the Hornby Railway Collectors Association if they would be interested in a TT gauge layout and their reply was that they have got no more storage space and if I wanted to make a TT gauge layout I would have to take it to the clubroom myself and to take it back afterwards. If no-one had invented model railways TT would be an excellent scale but 0, 00 and N gauges have already been invented and I don't think TT 120 does anything that N gauge does not do better already.

[britishcolumbian]

1 minute ago, Robin Brasher said:

I don't think TT 120 does anything that N gauge does not do better already.

Well, except be bigger and easier to see and work with for kitbashing and scratchbuilding, oh and shunting, etc..

[Pacific231G]

3 hours ago, Andrew Young said:

John,

 

Have to admit to being surprised by both Peco and Hornby’s reawakening of TT. With the timing of both announcements being so close to each other, both would’ve been developing these ranges at the same time and the cynic in me questions whether they knew what the other was planning or not. Whatever happened, we should be thankful that both chose the same scale for TT!

 

Andrew

That's certainly what happened when Tri-ang introduced TT (using 3mm/ft scale)  at the 1957 Toy Fair. Peco and Gem were ready with their track products for the new scale and Hamblings were also ready with 3mm scale versions of their Bilteezi cards. RM devoted a large chunk of their March edition to it and CJF's editorial talks about the "closest co-operation of the manufacturers concerned" . The first article in the section starts thus "The idea of an ultra-miniature railway system first occurred in 1930s but the original proposition "OOO" (2mm scale) is just too tiny for general adoption"  (So much for N gauge then 🥴)

[Covkid]

On 14/10/2022 at 09:44, Trainnoob said:

To be fair the entirety of the world's is moving online, Hornby is just following suit, I feel like model shops should start focusing on there online sales.

 

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. 

I will continue to enjoy the hospitality and banter at my preferred LHS Topp Trains of Stafford, where I buy anything I need whether it be locos, stock, decoders, kits, track components, paint etc etc. I believe in supporting them just as they want to provide a service to model railwayists which you won't find online. Clearly they won't be selling TT 1:120 but that wouldn't be their decision at this time.      

[BRTrainz]

10 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

"snap track" still has fishplates to maintain electrical continuity, so there's no escape.

 

Not all.

Life-Like HO/N Power-Loc (which I think Hornby put in a couple sets in the early 2000s), and MTH 3-Rail O Realtrax and Scaletrax are some examples without.

[britishcolumbian]

11 hours ago, Ravenser said:

I am simply questioning the suggestion made that Hornby TT  might not run on Peco code55.

They'd have to go back to 1970s and earlier BTTB/Zeuke wheels to not run on code 55.

[jjb1970]

On N gauge, Hornby have apparently decided they'd rather swim as the big fish in a new pond rather than be a minnow in somebody else's pond. Whether that's right or wrong is an opinion, and people are entitled to their own, but Hornby are doing nothing wrong by doing their own thing. If people want more N Gauge then presumably, they should be pressuring those companies which produce N to do more, and the response will probably be 'delighted to, as long as we think the market will make it worth our while'. I do see a case for Hornby doing TT, especially if we take their comments about growing the hobby and bringing in newcomers at face value. If Hornby are fishing for people not currently invested in the hobby then there's no reason to go with N just because it already exists, and I do think the slightly bigger size of 1/120 will be more attractive than N or OO for many potential newcomers. I would prefer 1/100 as a better compromise, but, and it's a big but, I think the advantage of correct gauge outweigh the advantages of a slightly bigger scale and it doesn't seem sensible to invent a new track gauge for 1/100 scale. So on balance I think they've got it right with TT 120.

There is one TT 120 variation that would make me jump scale and gauge, that being 1/120 scale models on 9mm track. That is pretty much bang on for 3'6" gauge, and in combination with regular TT track would allow accurate modelling of Japanese outline rather than the hodgepodge of scales now (1/80 for 3'6" prototypes and true HO for Shinkansen, with a similar divergence in N).

[britishcolumbian]

18 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I would prefer 1/100 as a better compromise, but, and it's a big but, I think the advantage of correct gauge outweigh the advantages of a slightly bigger scale and it doesn't seem sensible to invent a new track gauge for 1/100 scale. So on balance I think they've got it right with TT 120.

There is one TT 120 variation that would make me jump scale and gauge, that being 1/120 scale models on 9mm track. That is pretty much bang on for 3'6" gauge, and in combination with regular TT track would allow accurate modelling of Japanese outline rather than the hodgepodge of scales now (1/80 for 3'6" prototypes and true HO for Shinkansen, with a similar divergence in N).

Re 1:100 - issue with that is that they'd be shutting themselves out of the Continental market - and there *will* be sales of British outline models to the Continent.

 

Re 1:120 on 9 mm track - it's being used in New Zealand quite widely as NZ:120, and it is a niche scale in Japan - a very expensive niche, I saw a Tenshodo D51 in brass for around $3,000 20-ish years ago. There are some brass kits, too, including for a Kiha 81 set, but also very expensive. And I've seen some rumblings around the internet that some people are modelling South African Railways and Rhodesia Railways in 1:120 on 9 mm track. And there was at least one person modelling CN's Newfoundland operations like that, but I believe he died some years ago.

[leonk]

47 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

O

There is one TT 120 variation that would make me jump scale and gauge, that being 1/120 scale models on 9mm track. That is pretty much bang on for 3'6" gauge, and in combination with regular TT track would allow accurate modelling of Japanese outline rather than the hodgepodge of scales now (1/80 for 3'6" prototypes and true HO for Shinkansen, with a similar divergence in N).

 

Here in Australia the tide finally seems to be turning toward using the 12mm track for 3'6" in HO.  

In that regard, the Hornby announcement is great. Having easier access to track in 12mm will open more opportunities.

[009 micro modeller]

16 minutes ago, leonk said:

 

Here in Australia the tide finally seems to be turning toward using the 12mm track for 3'6" in HO.  

In that regard, the Hornby announcement is great. Having easier access to track in 12mm will open more opportunities.

Wouldn’t the sleeper spacing of H0m track be better though?

[leonk]

8 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Wouldn’t the sleeper spacing of H0m track be better though?

Sure, but the only remotely available H0m in Australia is Peco, so two points and some flex. And even that is only in some stores, not every one stocking the Peco range.

 

The Australian Hornby distributor looks like they will be putting the TT:120 in stores alongside the OO. 

That will make it far far more available, plus it's much better suited to people starting out / not building layouts.

Edited October 19, 2022 by leonk

[Miss Prism]

11 minutes ago, leonk said:

The Australian Hornby distributor looks like they will be putting the TT:120 in stores alongside the OO. 

 

Is that allowed?

 

[spamcan61]

8 hours ago, Porfuera said:

 

When I subscribed to Rail Express magazine it used to contain a supplement magazine called Rail Express Modeller - or have they stopped that now...?

 

Cheers, Neil

It's part of the main magazine, every month I think. This month's has a review of the new Bachmann 37, the Dance Hall brake van and an article on building a layout on a budget.

Edited October 19, 2022 by spamcan61

[leonk]

36 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Is that allowed?

 

Sure, they’re the distributor for the region and they’re a wholesaler, they don’t have their own retail presence. That’s why they’re singled out on the bottom of the tt club page.

 

they’d be more upset if Hornby bypassed them and did direct web sales into Australia.

 

[Dunsignalling]

11 hours ago, Andrew Young said:

John,

 

Have to admit to being surprised by both Peco and Hornby’s reawakening of TT. With the timing of both announcements being so close to each other, both would’ve been developing these ranges at the same time and the cynic in me questions whether they knew what the other was planning or not. Whatever happened, we should be thankful that both chose the same scale for TT!

 

Andrew

I think that, if UK outline TT was to be produced r-t-r once more, it could only be 1:120 scale.

 

TT3 has a worse scale/gauge discrepancy than OO, and look at the criticism that gets, despite it being the primary factor that allows 90%+ of continuous-run layouts in 4mm scale to even exist.

 

Finescale 3mm on 14.2mm gauge track throws up space issues akin to those encountered with the finer 4mm gauges.

 

John

[Miss Prism]

8 minutes ago, leonk said:

Sure, they’re the distributor for the region and they’re a wholesaler, they don’t have their own retail presence. That’s why they’re singled out on the bottom of the tt club page.

 

Ah, ok, it was your use of putting stuff 'in stores' that I found misleading.

[leonk]

6 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Ah, ok, it was your use of putting stuff 'in stores' that I found misleading.

What’s misleading about it?
there are stores here in Australia already showing it as coming soon.

[JohnR]

8 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

Kitmaster did make some locomotive and coach kits to go with the Tri-ang TT range.  I have just watched Simon Kohler's interview with Howard Smith.  I don't think that TT does anything that N gauge cannot do and I also think that TT gauge is too big. a 4'6" x 3'6" board is too heavy for one person to carry and I think the maximum size board that will fit in my car is 4' 6" x 3'3" whereas my 4'6" x 2'6" N gauge layout will fit in my car and I can carry it down my stairs. I did ask my group of the Hornby Railway Collectors Association if they would be interested in a TT gauge layout and their reply was that they have got no more storage space and if I wanted to make a TT gauge layout I would have to take it to the clubroom myself and to take it back afterwards. If no-one had invented model railways TT would be an excellent scale but 0, 00 and N gauges have already been invented and I don't think TT 120 does anything that N gauge does not do better already.

 

The size occupied by the Train sets (ie the equivalent of the OO 6 x 4) is 4' x 2'9"

[Hobby]

2 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

Re 1:120 on 9 mm track - it's being used in New Zealand quite widely as NZ:120, and it is a niche scale in Japan 

 

It's also used in Europe as TTm for metre gauge prototypes, there's stuff on Shapeways based on the Harz and Brohtalbahn, there may be others but I haven't investigated it any further... As yet!

[Dunsignalling]

3 minutes ago, leonk said:

What’s misleading about it?
there are stores here in Australia already showing it as coming soon.

 

Which makes me wonder if Hornby's "Direct Sales Only" decision in the UK might, at least in part, have been taken to avoid the possibility of a significant proportion of retailers declining to stock the new scale through lacking available finance, space, or just "faith".

 

John