Accurascale Goes Bananas! SR D1478 and D1479 Diagram Banana Vans in OO/4mm

[The Stationmaster]

Yes, they've labelled Banana Vans

 

Reading with a train probably from Avonmouth but possibly from Barry

 

Cardiff with a train from Barry. (RSH built EE Type 3 - obviously if you know what to look at)

 

Edited July 3 by The Stationmaster

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Cwmtwrch said:

... Possibly the failure to remove old labels, with new one just pasted on top, was an indication of the high turnover of vans and their limited number.

I doubt if there was ANY attempt at removing old labels until a van or vans became allocated to a different shipper - and then only if pasting-over would not suffice.

 

 

Edited July 3 by Wickham Green too
new page clarification

[Islesy]

9 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

I doubt if there was ANY attempt at removing old labels

Again, photographs from Mike King show otherwise @Wickham Green too - with both Fyffe's and Geest labels being roughly ripped away and new labels applied over the edges, as well as in different positions.

 

Best wishes,

Paul.

[Cwmtwrch]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I doubt if there was ANY attempt at removing old labels until a van or vans became allocated to a different shipper - and then only if pasting-over would not suffice.

Vans weren't allocated to shippers; there weren't enough to do that. Ships, depending on capacity, which got bigger over time, needed between 300 and 750 vans to clear their cargo, and up to 6 a week might arrive at the various ports at peak periods. Empty vans were collected by the receiving region and sent where Control judged they would next be needed, based on the arrival dates of ships. In 1951 the BR Magazine reported that BR had carried 4,393 vanloads "in a recent 4-week period", with about 2,700* vans in use; total imports that year were 163,700,000 tons. At the peak of banana traffic in 1962, there were around 4,000+* vans in use and about 363,500,000 tons were imported, most carried by BR.

 

* approximate totals, from which should be deducted those under repair and maintenance, or being converted to 'yellow spot' standard in the latter case.

[Wickham Green too]

If they weren't allocated to a shipper - for a particular journey - why was a shipper's label stuck on the things ? - I wasn't trying to imply any sort of ( semi-) permanent allocation. 🍌

[Dunsignalling]

14 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Which raises the question - which we'll probably never get an answer to - of whether a whole train of 'nana vans might have been labelled together ( in which case you'd expect a degree of placement consistency ) or were two or three wagons labelled at a time and then became shuffled with the rest of the pack ??!?

 

11 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Since major banana importers all used different ports [apart from Liverpool and London, but even there they used different, well separated, docks], I presume [on no specific evidence] that the vans would be labeled before being loaded, possibly when having the straw put in and the tare checked. So far as the height is concerned not all staff were the same height, and logically both sides would have been labeled, I think. Possibly the failure to remove old labels, with new one just pasted on top, was an indication of the high turnover of vans and their limited number.

 

Also, one side of a rake of vans might have been labelled from loading-dock height, and the other from the ground. Right end on one van, left on the next, because the guy with the glue pot could do two without moving more than a couple of steps.

 

If the van in question already carried the required label in good condition from its previous trip, who would bother to put a new one on at all?

 

All manner of scope for random variation, and they were just slapped on as quickly as possible - nothing was measured.

 

Edited July 4 by Dunsignalling

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

If they weren't allocated to a shipper - for a particular journey - why was a shipper's label stuck on the things ? - I wasn't trying to imply any sort of ( semi-) permanent allocation. 🍌

It was called 'advertising' - and banana importers weren't the only people who stuck labels bearing their name on railway owned vehicles.  However the size of label/poster/whatever you care to call it was laid down as not to exceed certain dimensions.  Presumably the idea was to ensure that labelling didn't clash with the size etc of company names on PO vehicles?

[trevor7598]

On 03/07/2024 at 17:42, Islesy said:

Again, photographs from Mike King show otherwise @Wickham Green too - with both Fyffe's and Geest labels being roughly ripped away and new labels applied over the edges, as well as in different positions.

 

Best wishes,

Paul.

I went one further. I purchased two TMC exclusives and asked them to weather everything

except the new labels, so the ripped off old label has a coat of grime as it could have been

in traffic like that for some time.

[lochlongside]

Good day, would appreciate some advice on Vacuum pipes and accessories, the large sheet of parts doesn't appear to quite cover my queries  and my (convoluted) query to Accurascale appears to gone astray - (Accurascale feel free to contribute 🙂) :-

I have got 2x 1478 BR sets (one pre-1961 and one post-1961)

I have got 2x 1479 BR sets (one pre-1961 and one post-1961)

I am in the process of replacing the auto-couplers with the scale screw link couplers

The pre 1961 sets come with upright vacuum pipes fitted at each end

The post 1961 sets come with no vacuum pipes fitted (presumably because drop pipes would interfere with the autocouplers) Each set arrives with an identical accessory pack included in which (See photo below) are are 3 off of item  A (which I assume from my Ratio kits !!) are drop vacuum pipes and 6 off of item B which I assume are the steam heating pipes.

So my qns are:-

1. I assume the 3x Item A in the pre-1961 accessory packs are to cover that interim 1961ish changeover period enabling the modeller to portray the odd (well 1  !!) conversion with one spare drop vacuum pipe for just in case.

2. Why are there only 3x drop vacuum pipes (Item A) in the post 1961 packs - surely there should be 6.

3. Am I correct in believing that Item A is a drop vacuum pipe and Item B is actually a steam heating pipe

This isn't a major issue as having ordered as I have I have in total across the 4 sets sufficient drop vacuum pipes to cover the apparent shortfall but the consistency of the accessory pack just throws up that element of doubt in my mind.

 

[Islesy]

54 minutes ago, lochlongside said:

3. Am I correct in believing that Item A is a drop vacuum pipe and Item B is actually a steam heating pipe

That is correct @lochlongside, yes. For each wagon, you should have 2 x vac pipes and 2 x steam heating pipes in the accessory bag, plus 2 x screw couplings and 2 x NEM adaptor collars. Accessory bags tend to be all the same, to prevent logistical mix ups at the factory, so they end up as a 'one bag fits all' scenario.

 

All the best,

Pau.

[Phil Bullock]

Hi folks 

 

want to be extra prototypical and add some extra ballast weight to my tadpoles. Easiest way would be to pop the roof off and fit car wheel balance weights internally. So can I ask please … are the rooves seperate parts? 
 

cheers

 

Phil

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Hi folks 

 

want to be extra prototypical and add some extra ballast weight to my tadpoles. Easiest way would be to pop the roof off and fit car wheel balance weights internally. So can I ask please … are the rooves seperate parts? 
 

cheers

 

Phil

 

I can't answer your specific question Phil, but when converting them to broad gauge I looked at the possibilities of dismantling the model generally including the roof but decided there didn't seem to be a safe, prudent way to so do, maybe the Accuchappies could comment?

 

Mike.

[Mallard60022]

3 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Hi folks 

 

want to be extra prototypical and add some extra ballast weight to my tadpoles. Easiest way would be to pop the roof off and fit car wheel balance weights internally. So can I ask please … are the rooves seperate parts? 
 

cheers

 

Phil

Presumably you mean the Vans? I don't think so Phil, but I ain't going in the Loft just now to check.

I have 16 in a Rake and a couple of Kits builds and they don't fall off when being hauled. I don't shunt them.

Half now have Hunts fitted anyway.

P

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Presumably you mean the Vans? I don't think so Phil, but I ain't going in the Loft just now to check.

I have 16 in a Rake and a couple of Kits builds and they don't fall off when being hauled. I don't shunt them.

Half now have Hunts fitted anyway.

P

Cheers Phil it’s my tadpoles that suffer when I hang 20 coke hoppers plus van on them… 

[Enterprisingwestern]

23 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Cheers Phil it’s my tadpoles that suffer when I hang 20 coke hoppers plus van on them… 

 

I must admit, my banana vans/tadpoles are relegated to the back of the 40 wagon van train due to being naughty boys at the front, that's with 3 link couplings.

 

Mike.

[Islesy]

25 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Cheers Phil it’s my tadpoles that suffer when I hang 20 coke hoppers plus van on them… 

Ah Phil, and to think we do those lovely exploded drawings in the leaflets to show you all the parts and how they go together 😆

The body is all one part I'm afraid, so you'll need to remove it to get access to the interior.

[Phil Bullock]

8 hours ago, Islesy said:

Ah Phil, and to think we do those lovely exploded drawings in the leaflets to show you all the parts and how they go together 😆

The body is all one part I'm afraid, so you'll need to remove it to get access to the interior.

Ah cheers Paul! That’s the answer then… 😉 

[Mallard60022]

Come on chaps...ill-informed person here. Apart from  the SR Bog Units and a wiggly thing in Water, WTF is a Tadpole?

A. Shamed of 36E

[John Isherwood]

3 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Come on chaps...ill-informed person here. Apart from  the SR Bog Units and a wiggly thing in Water, WTF is a Tadpole?

A. Shamed of 36E

 

Ex-banana van, used as fitted head on unfitted mineral wagon train.

 

CJI.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

 

Mike.

[gwrrob]

On 03/03/2024 at 10:24, gwrrob said:

For those who like to use Hunt couplings the extra close [XC] version work nicely here on my tightest curves. You could probably go closer if you trimmed and glued them but that would be a permanent fix. I don't have any of the Ultra Close type in stock but will try these at a later date. I've also added the extra pipes as supplied in the polybag and they don't interfere with the running.

 

 

 

These are now weathered and running with other manufacturers banana van look superb together. More please Accurascale !

 

 

 

 

[lochlongside]

👴

On 26/07/2024 at 15:33, Islesy said:

That is correct @lochlongside, yes. For each wagon, you should have 2 x vac pipes and 2 x steam heating pipes in the accessory bag, plus 2 x screw couplings and 2 x NEM adaptor collars. Accessory bags tend to be all the same, to prevent logistical mix ups at the factory, so they end up as a 'one bag fits all' scenario.

 

All the best,

Pau.

Good day Paul,

Apologies for the delay in responding  - thank you for the confirmation

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 03/07/2024 at 06:48, Phil Bullock said:

You might spot a few in this train…. 
 

Abbotswood goes bananas

In the early/mid 1960s there were four Q paths from Avonmouth to Water Orton through Abbotswood. There were also three paths from Southampton to Crewe over the top on the OWW line.

The Avonmouth to Moor Street went Cheltenham to Honeybourne then could either go via Stratford upon Avon and the North Warwickshire line or via the OWW through Evesham, Norton Jn, Worcester and Stourbridge Jn. 

The Barry to Bradford went via Stratford upon Avon,

 

 

There were also 'Control Specials', the equivalent of today's VST planning, to redistribute empties towards the docks depending on the expected arrival time of ships or to holding points such as Salisbury.

Edited August 24 by TheSignalEngineer

[TheSignalEngineer]

16 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

The Barry to Bradford went via Stratford upon Avon,

Not only that, it went via Hatton and Leamington to Banbury Yard. An engine came light from Woodford Halse to take it forward via the GC.

[gwrrob]

32 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Having looked to track these workings I think we need a 'Weird and Wonderful Routing' topic.

 

I've found the 10.22am departure from Southampton Docks was booked via the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton to a loco change at Didcot then on the Didcot - Chester line through Oxford. Depending on traffic being carried, at Wolvercot Junction it could continue on to Banbury or Birmingham Moor Street. Alternatively it could go OWW line through Evesham and Worcester to Kingswinfrd Junction South. It then took the Wombourne branch to rejoin the Didcot - Chester line at Oxley Branch Junction. At Wellington No.4 it went via Market Drayton to Nantwich, arriving at Crewe Gresty Lane at 7.45pm.

Have you got any of the Avonmouth workings @TheSignalEngineer