Tri ang locomotives

[Lt_Trauzz]

Hello

 

Can anyone help me, I am looking to make my Tri-Ang Lord of the Isles more realistic by adding a few things

-Painting the smoke box dart white like with the real engines. 

-Painting the gauges and levers in the cab. 

My question is will this make it loose value? It is a model with its boxes and it has a smoke generator and it is in near mint condition. 

Cheers

~Trauzz

[Darius43]

Hello,

 

I am not sure what value a mint condition Triang Lord of the Isles would  have, but a search on eBay might give an indication.

 

Modifying the one you have would almost certainly reduce its value.  It might be better to obtain a cheaper, somewhat  less than mint version and modifying that, leaving your mint condition example in mint condition.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Lt_Trauzz]

Thank very much Darius, 

 

for warning me about this reduction in value before I committed to it! I will keep an eye out for a damaged lord of the Isles to fix up and add paint work on. 

 

Cheers 

 

Trauzz

 

 

 

 

[33C]

37 minutes ago, Lt_Trauzz said:

Thank very much Darius, 

 

for warning me about this reduction in value before I committed to it! I will keep an eye out for a damaged lord of the Isles to fix up and add paint work on. 

 

Cheers 

 

Trauzz

 

 

 

 

Or just a body shell that you can modify to your hearts content, put on your chassis and leave the mint one in the box. 🤪

[The Johnster]

I would suspect that some (most) ‘mint condition’ Triang and Hornby Dublo models are more like ‘restored to mint condition’ from ‘play worn’.  Models purchased 60 or 70 years ago and never used, forgotten in brand new condition in attics or storerooms, are a lot rarer than a trip around the Bay of e might infer… 
 

The smokebox dart should be picked out in silver, as it was polished metal rather than painted white.  There is quite a lot that could be done to work up and improve the Triang LOTI; carving off handrails and replacing with wire and handrail knobs, better buffers, separate smokebox dart, real coal, crew, cab window glazing, lamp brackets, repaint with better lining transfers, though there is an argument that it should not be done. Ultimately, it is questionable whether this is worth it from a modelling perspective, given the model’s prominent and difficult-to-remove boiler skirts and fresh-air gap between the bogie and footplate, which will always betray it’s toy-like origins.  Triang and Triang Hornby era examples ride about 2mm too high at the buffers as well, as did all their stuff (so that the Rovex Black Princess could negotiate changes of gradient with the original ‘standard’ track system bridge piers on 13” radius curves; all stock for several decades followed suit), which would prevent my using them on my layout no matter how good they were in other respects!  
 

What such modelling activity would do to the resale value I have no idea; I don’t sell models on and always try to improve them or weather them to the best of my ability for use on my own layout, and renumber them to the prototypes I want, but I imagine the improvements would lower it.  The 2h market, which I do not fully understand, seems to be geared towards collectors, and places value on models in original condition with original box, or at least those that can be made to appear so after restoration.  The idea seems to exploit the nostalgia element of opening the box as a child, nowt wrong with that of course but it can be a nuisance to those of us looking for lower priced models to take out of the box or buy unboxed to work up and use on layouts.  There seems to be an underlying principle that anyone who has improved their models has messed them up, and somtimes they have, but it seems a sweeping and unfair generalisation. 
 

In your place, I would suggest acquiring 2 LOTIs or a spare bodyshell, one to be worked up as far as you can for layout use and one kept in original/restored condition for display and possible sale, a solution which gives you the best of both worlds. 
 

This discussion impinges on the modeller/collector debate, which is old ground that I have no wish to go over again!

Edited September 25, 2022 by The Johnster

[Prometheus]

I'd probably not make changes to a mint / boxed Lord of the Isles such as your's, not because of the financial value issue but, rather, because such a model will be relatively scarce in that condition and the original aesthetics can be enjoyed. It would also be a conversation piece.

 

Do as suggested - and as I did - and obtain a playworn example to work on instead. Mine is below and it enjoys a sedate but pleasurable second life! The brass work cost a bomb however....

 

 

Tony

[DCB]

It depends if you get seduced by the eBay listings showing mint boxed examples for £200 which stay advertised for years at a time, or more realistic values at around £60-80.   Then again you should get a runner for £25, the decent one with Magnadhesion and the XT 60 motor, not traction tyres and the mk7.   Realistically mint boxed examples are now display case models as they are pretty hopeless at pulling trains on nickle silver track, so for most people making it usable removes the originality so you might as well paint the smokebox dart and gauges.   The fact the last one in the Triang condition ran around 1905 sort of reduces its usefulness, The last ones in use had Belpaire Boilers and wider cabs and were scrapped as there was no work for them.  I remember mine from my teens, It just managed 4 clerestories but ran beautifully , Even the full size ones slipped on starting and drivers had to judge the best amount of slipping for optimum acceleration....   

[Elaine]

From my experiences immaculate Tri-ang locos are still out there hiding in attics waiting to be found, with collectors always looking to improve on pieces they have to display and many still run them, you are certainly better off obtaining a scruffy one to restore and detail up, or consider one of the new Hornby examples where they have improved the running quality by adding pick ups to the front pony and it will run through modern Peco and Hornby point work with no hopping or derailing.

[cypherman]

On 28/09/2022 at 10:15, Elaine said:

From my experiences immaculate Tri-ang locos are still out there hiding in attics waiting to be found, with collectors always looking to improve on pieces they have to display and many still run them, you are certainly better off obtaining a scruffy one to restore and detail up, or consider one of the new Hornby examples where they have improved the running quality by adding pick ups to the front pony and it will run through modern Peco and Hornby point work with no hopping or derailing.

Hi all,

Here are a few of my own improved Triang and early Triang Hornby engines. Just shows what you can do with a limited amount of talent...... :)

2 x Triang Flying Scotsman, repainted, renamed and numbered as 60106 Flying Fox and 60036 Columbo.

Triang 3mt

Triang Hall

SECR S class

Triang Hornby N15 in Southern black and sunshine lettering

Triang Princess in BR black

Triang Hornby N15 in BR black

Edited October 3, 2022 by cypherman

[The Johnster]

Triang made some reasonable models by the RTR standards of those days, as well as some absolute dogs.  None will stand scrutiny to current RTR standards, but they have committted far worse outrages in their Triang Hornby and Hornby days, when they arguably should have known better.  Sadly, few are straightforward to work up to acceptable condition, all being cursed with the early decision to produce locos and stock that would be able to handle the transition from level to gradient of the standard Triang bridge pier system off a 13" radius curve.  I understand why this was done, as it was obviously sensible to market a system within which everything was compatible, but it has left us with locos and stock that ride too high from the railhead by about a scale 2mm, which is noticeable, particularly when they are coupled to or run with stock which runs at the correct scale height. 

 

Alterning them to allow running at the correct height, so that the buffers align with those on other stock, is often difficult and involves major surgery to chassis blocks, dealing with clearance problems especially where there are driving wheels and splashers to consider, fouling of leading bogies on the inside edges of already cutaway cylinders, and in some cases insufficient headroom for the motors. 

[DCB]

When I started modelling we had the Wrenn Castle Triang Lord of the Isles and Triang Hall for RTR GWR locos in 00 so we had to spend hours tarting them up. No going to Hattons and tapping your plastic and walking off with a DCC Sound super detailed Bachmann model. 

That said my Triang Halls, Lord Westwood conversions are still working alongside Bachmann Halls,

Edited September 28, 2022 by DCB

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, everyone,

 

My railway modelling adventure started with a Tri-ang Princess train set for Christmas 1955.

 

I started to customise/improve my Tri-ang models from about 1966, when I began to use Shinohara Code 100 points and track. This required severe filing-down of the steamroller wheels of early Tri-ang stock and regauging to 14.3mm back-to-back.

 

I did minor improvements to my first two locos (6201 and 15104), involving mainly repainting and relettering. They both still run.

 

Later upgrades included rewheeling with Romford wheels, where necessary. My Dean Singles now have pickups on the tender wheels and use Bullfrog Snot applied to the insulated drivers. Each can now comfortably handle 8 long Hornby clerestory coaches

 

Other projects used body parts from Kitmaster, Airfix, Dapol and GBL static models. Experience from these polished my skills to the point where I can now scratchbuild quite complex prototypes.

 

Here are some locos from my collection:

 

6201 Princess Elizabeth:

 

15104:

 

Tich (re-worked Dock Shunter):

 

NBL 0-4-0 shunter:

 

2953 Titley Court – rebuilt from Hall class:

 

3011 Greyhound:

 

3046 Lord of the Isles:

 

4908 Broome Hall:

 

6435 (minor re-work of 8751 class):

 

70018 Flying Dutchman:

 

78005 – rebuilt from 2MT using Crownline kit:

 

82004 (which uses Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T cylinders & motion):

 

 

Projects using “Nellie” chassis:

 

3265 Tre Pol & Pen:

 

3297 Earl Cawdor:

 

3440 City of Truro (Motorised Kitmaster):

 

3713 City of Chester (Motorised GBL):

 

3814 County of Chester:

 

 

Projects using Dean Single chassis:

GNR No.1 (Motorised Kitmaster):

 

Caledonian 123 (Motorised GBR body):

 

 

Projects using 0-6-0 chassis:

23 – rebuilt from Jinty 0-6-0T:

 

2251:

 

6401 (motorised GBL):

 

Current Project:

GWR 3232 class 2-4-0, using Jinty chassis, with a Mainline tender and a few Dean Single body parts:

 

I've been working with Tri-ang/Hornby models for a good while, so far, but it's still a lot of fun!

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[cypherman]

11 hours ago, DCB said:

When I started modelling we had the Wrenn Castle Triang Lord of the Isles and Triang Hall for RTR GWR locos in 00 so we had to spend hours tarting them up. No going to Hattons and tapping your plastic and walking off with a DCC Sound super detailed Bachmann model. 

That said my Triang Halls, Lord Westwood conversions are still working alongside Bachmann Halls,

Your Triang Halls will probably still be going long after the Bachmann ones bite the dust

[Robin Brasher]

I thought my days of running Tri-ang Hornby locomotives were numbered when the gear wheel on my 9F and Flying Scotsman came loose and I could not glue them back on.  I met a man at the Harmans Cross classic car show who repairs Tri-ang Hornby locomotives and he repaired them for £50 and now they are as good as new. I have heard that Hornby does not repair locomotives that are over 10 years old and the man told me that he cannot get spares for Chinese Hornby locomotives.  It looks like my 9F and Flying Scotsman will be running long after the Chinese locomotives have become expensive paper weights and my Flying Scotsman has flanges on the swivelling pony truck which looks much better on curved track.

[cypherman]

On 29/09/2022 at 07:19, RosiesBoss said:

G'day, everyone,

 

My railway modelling adventure started with a Tri-ang Princess train set for Christmas 1955.

 

I started to customise/improve my Tri-ang models from about 1966, when I began to use Shinohara Code 100 points and track. This required severe filing-down of the steamroller wheels of early Tri-ang stock and regauging to 14.3mm back-to-back.

 

I did minor improvements to my first two locos (6201 and 15104), involving mainly repainting and relettering. They both still run.

 

Later upgrades included rewheeling with Romford wheels, where necessary. My Dean Singles now have pickups on the tender wheels and use Bullfrog Snot applied to the insulated drivers. Each can now comfortably handle 8 long Hornby clerestory coaches

 

Other projects used body parts from Kitmaster, Airfix, Dapol and GBL static models. Experience from these polished my skills to the point where I can now scratchbuild quite complex prototypes.

 

Here are some locos from my collection:

 

6201 Princess Elizabeth:

 

15104:

 

Tich (re-worked Dock Shunter):

 

NBL 0-4-0 shunter:

 

2953 Titley Court – rebuilt from Hall class:

 

3011 Greyhound:

 

3046 Lord of the Isles:

 

4908 Broome Hall:

 

6435 (minor re-work of 8751 class):

 

70018 Flying Dutchman:

 

78005 – rebuilt from 2MT using Crownline kit:

 

82004 (which uses Hornby Fowler 2-6-4T cylinders & motion):

 

 

Projects using “Nellie” chassis:

 

3265 Tre Pol & Pen:

 

3297 Earl Cawdor:

 

3440 City of Truro (Motorised Kitmaster):

 

3713 City of Chester (Motorised GBL):

 

3814 County of Chester:

 

 

Projects using Dean Single chassis:

GNR No.1 (Motorised Kitmaster):

 

Caledonian 123 (Motorised GBR body):

 

 

Projects using 0-6-0 chassis:

23 – rebuilt from Jinty 0-6-0T:

 

2251:

 

6401 (motorised GBL):

 

Current Project:

GWR 3232 class 2-4-0, using Jinty chassis, with a Mainline tender and a few Dean Single body parts:

 

I've been working with Tri-ang/Hornby models for a good while, so far, but it's still a lot of fun!

 

Regards,

 

Rob

Hi, I would love to see how you mounted the Fowler valve gear and cylinders on the 3MT.

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, Cypherman,

 

Thanks for your query. The modifications were detailed here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/129669-br-class-3mt-2-6-2t-makeover/#comment-2982999, but the images have been lost.

 

 To help you, I've appended a pdf of the text and images. (I always keep  copies of my major submissions, just in case!)

BR Class 3MT 2-6-2T makeover.pdf

 

Regards,

 

Rob

 

[cypherman]

10 hours ago, RosiesBoss said:

G'day, Cypherman,

 

Thanks for your query. The modifications were detailed here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/129669-br-class-3mt-2-6-2t-makeover/#comment-2982999, but the images have been lost.

 

 To help you, I've appended a pdf of the text and images. (I always keep  copies of my major submissions, just in case!)

BR Class 3MT 2-6-2T makeover.pdf 616.86 kB · 3 downloads

 

Regards,

 

Rob

 

Hi, Thanks for this. It will be a great help.

 

[Paleopotato09]

I'm slowly converting this Tri-ang saddle tank into a 0-6-2 colliery tank. Based on an engine used in Wales but also the Lambton tanks. The chassis is from a Bachmann junior Thomas lookalike. All I really need to do is figure out how to mount the new chassis and fit the rear trailing axle.

 

You could say this is baby's first kitbash as it's my first time doing this kind of work on a model? 

[melmerby]

On 28/09/2022 at 23:17, cypherman said:

Hi all,

 

Triang 3mt

 

 

 

 

You do know that 44932 is actually a Black 5?🙂

 

[MrWolf]

The first locomotive that I ever had, somewhere around 1978 was an early Lord of the Isles. It would be the ideal thing to upgrade, busted smoke generator, cracked retaining lug / cab floor so extra washers on the body screw, trailing wheel springs missing etc, but I loved it. 

In a fit of nostalgia, I bought another one from eBay, one of the last Triangs, it turned out to be mint and barely used, so I accept it for what it is and it gets the occasional outing on my layout. (It has been dubbed the shiniest loco on RMWeb by my thread readers) I am sorely tempted to buy another battered one and upgrade it to 1915 condition or thereabouts.

 

 

As for hacking Triang locos about, I always wanted to convert a Jinty into GWR number 23, so acquired a tatty example. No sooner had I done so than I found a much later Hornby one with the boiler mounted motor in a junk shop for £9. The problems with the wheels and motor in cab were instantly solved.

Having had lengthy discussions with one of my conspirators on here, we ended up with two examples, both with printed bodies and metal details, nothing was farmed out bar the metal tank fillers etc. Mine is still Hornby chassised and powered, the other uses Bachmann Pannier parts on a printed chassis block. I think that the moral is, don't throw anything away.

 

This is it, awaiting the signwriter and some light weathering.

 

 

Running trials, minus chassis details.

 

Early on, showing the cut down Jinty chassis, the rear wheels were swapped to the centre.

 

 

Another loco I wanted to own as a boy was a Mainline 2251, I finally got one a few months ago but it didn't stay standard for long, the first thing I did was swap to a smaller tender as per 2291 and work is still ongoing to put it into 1938 condition.

 

 

 

I'd encourage anyone to have a go, especially when you remind yourself  the subject for improvement is basically a broken old toy.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by MrWolf
Picture

[SRman]

I used to pick up "project" locomotives from swap meets. If they needed some body repairs they were ideal candidates for super-detailing and repainting. I have a few old Triang locomotives like this, with at least one, an ex-SR L1 4-4-0, still on the workbench. The L1 had cracked or broken cab window pillars, the 3MT and the pannier tank had triangular sections missing from the rears of their bunkers and required new plastic sheet panels and parts of their buffer beams to be fabricated (can you spot the new bits?). The 3MT still has its original chunky wheels, but the LT pannier and L1 gained new Romford/Markits wheels.

 

None of these models was worth anything to a collector.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by SRman

[MrWolf]

Always liked the L1, never mind what purists say. A friend of mine did a major plasticard job on one to create a very nice looking LSWR 4-4-0. Another good loco for upgrading that can be had cheap is the Hornby 2721 Pannier, I have several in the queue.

[Firecrest]

 I love this thread... I'm also happiest working with knackered Triang and Mainline engines and (hopefully) improving them as best I can...

 

I've also recently discovered Crownline kits and managed to get hold of a few - two victims are currently on the workbench, a Triang Britannia and the original 57xx Pannier (both with smoke generators). Both were well, er, used shall we say and it's been thoroughly enjoyable working on them to see what emerges.

 

I did the same last year with a knackered Triang Hall and was VERY pleased with the result, which essentially consisted of stripping the body down and grafting parts from a Hornby County body... Came from Topps Trains in Stafford for £5. Images here... as you can see it was a sad specimen, with rusted motion and thoroughly dirty body. Seemed to clean up nicely I think, and those who know the location well will appreciate the renaming... however, I cheated with the Hall and used the County handrail. For the 57xx I have to bend it from scratch, and it's the confounded one piece GWR style. Any tips to get this right in making sure everything lines up square?

 

The tender wasn't the original btw, it came from KS Models in Stevenage and was a Hogwarts painted specimen... I also used Fox decals, nameplates and numbers and Alan Gibson brass boiler bands. Plus various brass components such as the safety valve, smokebox dart, steps, brackets, cab window surrounds, whistles and chimney (which is too far back I know...)

 

Best, Chris

 

 

[33C]

6 minutes ago, Firecrest said:

 I love this thread... I'm also happiest working with knackered Triang and Mainline engines and (hopefully) improving them as best I can...

 

I've also recently discovered Crownline kits and managed to get hold of a few - two victims are currently on the workbench, a Triang Britannia and the original 57xx Pannier (both with smoke generators). Both were well, er, used shall we say and it's been thoroughly enjoyable working on them to see what emerges.

 

I did the same last year with a knackered Triang Hall and was VERY pleased with the result, which essentially consisted of stripping the body down and grafting parts from a Hornby County body... Came from Topps Trains in Stafford for £5. Images here... as you can see it was a sad specimen, with rusted motion and thoroughly dirty body. Seemed to clean up nicely I think, and those who know the location well will appreciate the renaming... however, I cheated with the Hall and used the County handrail. For the 57xx I have to bend it from scratch, and it's the confounded one piece GWR style. Any tips to get this right in making sure everything lines up square?

 

The tender wasn't the original btw, it came from KS Models in Stevenage and was a Hogwarts painted specimen... I also used Fox decals, nameplates and numbers and Alan Gibson brass boiler bands. Plus various brass components such as the safety valve, smokebox dart, steps, brackets, cab window surrounds, whistles and chimney (which is too far back I know...)

 

Best, Chris

 

 

Triang loco's just won't die! Like the brake dusting finish.

[Firecrest]

3 hours ago, 33C said:

Triang loco's just won't die! Like the brake dusting finish.

 

Thank you, very light coatings of Phoenix Brake Dust and Railmatch Red Oxide enamels