O gauge

[Andymsa]

I’m thinking about having a small diesel depot in O gauge, as a taster if O gauge is for me. I’m wondering if tortoise point motors are up to the task of throwing points, or are other motors used

 

thanks

[Nick G]

Just now, Andymsa said:

I’m thinking about having a small diesel depot in O gauge, as a taster if O gauge is for me. I’m wondering if tortoise point motors are up to the task of throwing points, or are other motors used

 

thanks

 

I have a Cobalt digital IP motor on mine, works well.

[Dave Hunt]

I have a fairly large S7 MPD layout on which all the pointwork, including some three throws, are operated by Tortoise motors very satisfactorily. I have also been involved with several exhibition 7mm layouts and in at least ten years of operation have only known of one Tortoise motor to have failed.

 

Dave

[Andymsa]

Thanks for the replies, I couldn’t see why they would not work. I’m still deciding to go for this project, my fear it would distract from my HO layout which I have invested a long time in. A friend has said get rid of the HO and go fully O as I got the space to have a reasonable layout but I’m still not fully convinced of that. I could do both but would I do both justice to them. Im wondering if O has any downsides ?

[Nick G]

One you try O gauge your on a slippery slope and probably won't go back to any other scale...

[Dave Hunt]

38 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

Im wondering if O has any downsides ?

 

Apart from the space required, no.

 

Dave

[F-UnitMad]

29 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

I could do both but would I do both justice to them. Im wondering if O has any downsides ?

Some years ago now I had a lot of American HO, and a fair collection of American O as well. I found I couldn't do justice to both at the same time. I did some comparison tests to see which one to go for.

 

 

 

In the end it was a no-brainer. I sold the HO and built an O Scale layout in the same space as the HO one was - part of it has an identical track plan. Sidings and trains are shorter, but the 'presence' of O cannot be matched by anything smaller.

A couple of 'before & after' views of the same spot. First photo had some O models on top of the HO to test the space. Second is the view today.

 

[RobinofLoxley]

Andy you have just doubled your modelling space? So now you might halve it again?

[Andymsa]

1 hour ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Andy you have just doubled your modelling space? So now you might halve it again?

yes I know, but one of the reasons I started thinking about this, the other night I was crawling around under the layout and my knees were complaining. I thought about what type of layout I could build that would do away with the need to crawl under things.

[brossard]

Agree with the sentiments above.  I started in 2016 when Dapol changed the O gauge world.  I also realized that I couldn't do both OO and O so the OO got sold off and I am now dedicated to O.  Truth be told, I was mightily fed up with OO because of the horrible compromises, notably track gauge and couplings.

 

As for Tortoises, I use them on my current layout in conjunction with Wabbit accessory decoders.  I've had them a very long them and they are recycled from a previous layout.  I would advise the operating wire be replaced with at least 0.032" instead of the anemic 0.020".

 

Be careful when wiring the Tortoise.  A D connector really should be used.  If you solder direct to the protruding board, shorts are possible.  Ask me how I know.

 

Tortoises are a bit long in the tooth and were I to start again I might go for something more modern, like Cobalt.  From what I have seen, Cobalt have improved on the Tortoise by providing solderless connections and 0.032" wire.

 

John

[Chris Turnbull]

4 hours ago, Andymsa said:

I’m thinking about having a small diesel depot in O gauge, as a taster if O gauge is for me. I’m wondering if tortoise point motors are up to the task of throwing points, or are other motors used

 

Yes, absolutely fine.  Here's a photo of a gauge 0 point on my layout powered by a Tortoise point motor.  The only thing you may have to do is to use a slightly thicker gauge of wire than that supplied.  This is twenty years old and still going strong.

 

 

Chris Turnbull

[Andymsa]

40 minutes ago, Chris Turnbull said:

 

Yes, absolutely fine.  Here's a photo of a gauge 0 point on my layout powered by a Tortoise point motor.  The only thing you may have to do is to use a slightly thicker gauge of wire than that supplied.  This is twenty years old and still going strong.

 

 

Chris Turnbull

what make of point is that, I do like it

[Chris Turnbull]

3 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

what make of point is that, I do like it

 

Thank you.  It's a scratchbuilt point made from Peco components.  The clamp-lock mechanism is just bits of brass, Plasticard and a cocktail stick.  You can see the operating wire from the Tortoise point motor poking through the bottom flange of the right-hand switch blade with a hole through the baseboard below.

 

Chris Turnbull

[brossard]

The thing about turnouts for O gauge, is that, AFIK, Peco are the only game in town for off the shelf RTP.  They are pretty dear as well so I made most of mine using Peco components (chairs,rail) and Intentio wooden timbers.  I did initially use Peco timbers but I found they warped and made the turnout useless.

 

 

The turnout in the middle is Peco but I really hate the enormous blade/stockrail gap so I modified it as you see.  (tie bars are from MM1 (ex JLTRT) and yes they are a fiddle but worth it).  The gap is much better.  The other two are handbuilt using the Peco template.  The nice thing about O is that wheels all seem to have the same standard, unlike OO, so all my stock works smoothly.

 

John

[37114]

5 hours ago, Andymsa said:

Thanks for the replies, I couldn’t see why they would not work. I’m still deciding to go for this project, my fear it would distract from my HO layout which I have invested a long time in. A friend has said get rid of the HO and go fully O as I got the space to have a reasonable layout but I’m still not fully convinced of that. I could do both but would I do both justice to them. Im wondering if O has any downsides ?

I have sold all my 4mm stock about 2 years after I went into 7mm but I have a friend who has kept both his 00 layout as well as progressing in O gauge and wants to continue doing both. The level of detail you can achieve is another level and you don't need lots and lots of space to do O gauge (my layout is less than 5ft scenic section but still plenty of fun).

 

The only downsides I would say is  you need to be more planned about stock purchases as effectively you have roughly a third less footprint to play with so for example whereas I had 15 or so 00 locos, I have only 5 O gauge locos (both my last oo and O gauge layouts are the same size). Price wise O gauge locos are 2 -3 times more than 00 but you need a third less of them so the cost nets out.

Also if you intend to exhibit the layout or make it portable then assuming you keep the boards to 2ft wide or less then you are a bit more restricted on the width of the layout from a scenic depth perspective. Until a few years ago RTR locos/stock availability was patchy but no longer an issue now.  The above said I have absolutely no regrets going to O gauge and don't expect to downsize anytime soon.

[Chris Turnbull]

5 hours ago, Andymsa said:

Im wondering if O has any downsides ?

 

Yes.  You start looking at Gauge One.  Here's my live steam Black 5 on my local group's layout.

 

 

Chris Turnbull

Edited September 19, 2022 by Chris Turnbull
Typo

[Andymsa]

I am thinking alone the lines of getting diesels that I worked on during my freight days, 47,31,37.08. But I do like the two car rail car aswell, so I may have either a small diesel depot or a small branch terminus. I, wondering if it’s worth going to the Guildford show comming up.

[Happy Hippo]

How big is this diesel depot going to be?

 

If it's only got a handful of points, then don't waste your money on Tortoise (I prefer Cobalt) motors but just use a manual lever with the polarity of the crossing nose switched by a simple microswitch driven off the stretcher bar drive rod. 

[37114]

1 hour ago, Andymsa said:

I am thinking alone the lines of getting diesels that I worked on during my freight days, 47,31,37.08. But I do like the two car rail car aswell, so I may have either a small diesel depot or a small branch terminus. I, wondering if it’s worth going to the Guildford show comming up.

MIOG at Crewe maybe worth a shout although a while away.

 

To give you an idea this is what 5ft scenic section in O gauge looks like.. A class 37 is 1.5ft long 

[The Johnster]

Never been tempted by the Dark Side, and am wondering why.  Even my daydream lottery-money layouts, space and cost irrelevant, are 4mm, albeit with professionally built track and stock to P4 standards.  What is the hold that 4mm has on me, and why has it got it?

 

Probably the most important factor is that it is the size that I am used to, the size that I think and visualise in, my comfort zone.  My first train set was a Triang/Rovex Black Princess when I was 5 years old, and all my modelling since has been to 00 standards, hopefully improved a little from xmas 1957.  I was delighted with my oval of track, Princess Elizabeth, and pair of 6" shorty coaches, but instantly aware of the problems.  All the stock was ridiculously short, and the curves ridiculously sharp, and I immedieately wanted something that was more to scale and had more plausible curves; half a dozen years later I had discovered flexi track, Triang had brought out scale length mk1s, the 'Constructor' had introduced me to the fy-terminus format, and I was starting to achieve something in this direction.  I may have progressed, but only slightly, in the meantime...

 

Second most important factor is price.  I've never had particularly large amounts of cash to throw at my layouts and must cut my cloth accordingly.  7mm is significantly more costly, both in RTR form and as kit/scratch build, because the greater detail possible means that more components have to be produced and assembled.  This may be satisfying in modelling terms, but my principal aim has always been to have reasonably realistic trains operating in realistic ways against a reasonably realistic backdrop, and 00 RTR has progressed since 1957 to a point where it can satisfy this demand.  7mm allows half the stock and track (give or take) in a given space, but the said stock and track costs twice as much, so it should even out but in practice you want to see finer detail and the cost goes up.

 

Space in my view comes third.  I can model a complete train in 4mm and the other end of it is a sensible distance away from me as the observer, not the other end of the room.  My actual trains are limited to 10 wagons and passenger workings are rarely more than 2 coaches, a classic BLT setup, and a 2' baseboard width is about the limit of my reach; the same thing in 7mm would be at least 40", and out of my grasp. 

 

There is no denying that the Senior Scale has significant advantages.  Better detail, better running, more 'presence'; the trains have something of the inertia, momentum and smoothness of real trains, and are not stopped dead in their tracks (sorry) by small bits of grit from scale 80mph, or even scale 40mph.  4mm trains are lightweight and move accordingly, something I have all my modelling life attempted to combat with ballast weights.  Real railways are about engineering, and 7mm has more of the feel of this as well.  It is possible to build 7mm loco or vehicle in which all the parts work and as they should; it is possible in 4mm as well but much more difficult and costly.

 

And of course 00 is a horrible compromise which the RTR trade is too heavily invested in to get out of, a typical British f*** up.  Nonetheless, very good layouts can be achieved to this flawed standard using RTR stock with tension-lock coupings and RTP track; the secret is good settings, by which I mean scenery, buildings. and backdrops, with good weathering and blending in.  7mm modelling is, perhaps counterintuitively, at a disadvantage here, because a broad-brush impressionist approach to the non-railway part of the layout can be adopted to some extend in the smaller scale in a way you won't get away with in 7mm, which is accordingly a lot more work.

 

I admire the better 7mm layouts I see at shows or on YouTube, but too many seem to fall into what I think of as a trap; beautifully presented ex-works stock with shiny buffers to museum display standards, perfectly freshly ballasted track, and everything pristine in a way that no prototype railway or the environment it sits in has ever been in reality.  I can almost guarantee that such layouts feature industrial saddle tanks or Fowler diesels working on running lines with main line trains because the owner(s) have not had the time to build suitable locos to run their layouts with more prototypical examples.  Operation is at a snail's pace; I'm the first to criticise unrealistic high speeds, stabbed rat starts, and brick wall stops on some show layouts, but there are two sides to this.

 

I am on the home straight of my mortal coil, at 70, and will never abandon 4mm 00 RTR now.  I simply don't have the time, never mind the skillsets, to build an operational layout in any other form now, nor the workshop space.  My layout has to live in the occupied part of my home, and behave itself accordingly when it comes to noise, fumes, and dust.

 

The larger your scale, the more detail you need and will want to include, and, certainly for those of us living in rented flats or tiny modern homes, the less space you will have.  Gauge 1 layouts with full scenery and shunting operations are rare; they tend to be display/model testing circuits; same goes for G-scale narrow gauge.  The smaller your scale, the more track and stock you will need to take advantage of the space but the more you need to compromise on detail and running standards.  I could probably model my entire branch line, junction to terminus, in T scale but the detail and running would never satisfy me.

 

I'm happy with my 00 RTR layout.  I can run most of the sort of trains I want to according to the 1955 Rule Book with a combination of RTR, kit builds, and kitbashing/cut'n'shuts, to a standard that I am content with (of course I want inside motion and working reversers, but i can't make them myself so will keep quiet on the matter for now and consider sprung buffers and working cab roof ventiltors to be the mutt's nuts).  I can evoke the period and locality I have chosen to an extent that I find plausible.  Nothing is as it was when it came out of the box; weathering, renumbering, top feed removals on panniers, detailing, repaints all creating a holistically more blended and naturalistic impression of a working railway that is approaching the end of it's life in a dirty mining environment after years of neglect and under-investment.

 

The gauge compromise is less obvious in a side-on low level view.  I'd like to use scale couplings, but my eyesight and hand-eye co-ordination are not up to it and will only get worse over time. so must accept the tension-lock compromise as well; I've used this to shoe-horn in some tighter curves in the fy.  There is enough interest in running the trains to a real-time timetable withing the rules at realistic speeds, and enough outstanding or planned modelling projects to keep my going until my final withdrawal from service or until I'm too decrepit and gaga to manage, and I'll never build another layout now.  This is not a criticism of 7mm, or better standards in 4mm, more a realistic and pragmatic assessment of my capabilities (especially when it comes to track building and soldering!).

[Hibelroad]

It all depends on what suits the individual but price isn’t a barrier, I recently bought a new Dapol Terrier DCC fitted (excellent model which runs smoothly) for £210, that compares well with 4mm prices.  

[Andymsa]

Maybe an explanation of the potential area if I removed my existing layout

 

 

1 =32 x14 feet

2 = 19 x 8 feet

3 = 22 x 10 feet this will be a new extension I’m planning to build

[Andymsa]

25 minutes ago, 37114 said:

MIOG at Crewe maybe worth a shout although a while away.

 

To give you an idea this is what 5ft scenic section in O gauge looks like.. A class 37 is 1.5ft long 

I do like the idea of the elevated section at the back

[Nearholmer]

There is a long held belief the 0 and 00 work out about the same cost per unit area of layout, and I don’t think that’s far wrong, so if you have an area that will accommodate something in 0, it probably won’t cost you more than what you would put in it in 00. But, it might require more saving up, to ‘invest’ in fewer, larger steps. A Dapol 08 is an absolute bargain, and IMO knocks three or four of its 00 equivalent, which is what it might cost, into a cocked hat.

 

Where it will go horribly wrong in cost terms is if you build an MPD, then buy all the locos that ever visited it from 1960 to 2000!

[37114]

40 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

Maybe an explanation of the potential area if I removed my existing layout

 

 

1 =32 x14 feet

2 = 19 x 8 feet

3 = 22 x 10 feet this will be a new extension I’m planning to build

Blimey, in that space you can model Toton!!!