Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge

[03060]

48 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

 Are they OCAs?

 

Andy

Yes Andy,

 

They are in their Engineers guise though which along with the OBA type were classed as BASS.

 

Catfish and Dogfish are good as well and luckily for you I've only ever seen photos of fairly shortish Engs trains in your period on the Extension.
 

One of the longer trains was made up of 5 PIKE ((SPA in flame red) a BASS (OCA in dutch) and a BASS (OBA in either red / grey or possibly brown.)

 

Two Sealions or Seacows with a Salmon fitted with rail cranes and a normal Salmon seems to be another combination that was seen.

 

Apologies to Rob for butting in ... he will find legal pictures much quicker than I can ... but also as ... I've been a bit 'starved' of WHL interaction recently so it's nice to see some developments on my favourite threads ... apart from the Midges being oot and aboot I hate the long bright days of summers when people stop modelling !! 😉🤣

 

Best wishes to all fellow Westies.

Ian.

[thegreenhowards]

I have a Salmon kit which I’m building and was planning to put a couple of Ellis Clark SeaLions with it. But they have been ‘suspended’ and were very expensive anyway. So I went for the Catfish and Dogfish from Rails at reasonable prices to go with my Salmon. I also have a grampus somewhere which can tag along. I think that and a rake of Turbots will do me for engineering, but could I add a couple of BASS to the Dog/Catfish rake?

 

Andy

[Softvark]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

I have a Salmon kit which I’m building

 

Andy, where did you get the salmon kit? You can get seacows and sealions from PRMRP but I've not seen a salmon kit before.

 

Julian

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, Softvark said:

 

Andy, where did you get the salmon kit? You can get seacows and sealions from PRMRP but I've not seen a salmon kit before.

 

Julian

Skog. They’re 3D printed. He only seems to advertise on Facebook which doesn’t make it easy!

This is where I’ve got to.

Not much to finish it, but just need to prioritise.

 

What I ideally need is the crane to go on top which seemed to be common on the WHL. But I can’t find one in 7mm.

 

Andy

 

 

 

Edited June 29 by thegreenhowards

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I have a Salmon kit which I’m building and was planning to put a couple of Ellis Clark SeaLions with it. But they have been ‘suspended’ and were very expensive anyway. So I went for the Catfish and Dogfish from Rails at reasonable prices to go with my Salmon. I also have a grampus somewhere which can tag along. I think that and a rake of Turbots will do me for engineering, but could I add a couple of BASS to the Dog/Catfish rake?

 

Andy

Make sure your shunters, guards and drivers know which are vacuum-, air- or dual-braked (or piped)!

[young37215]

12 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I have a Salmon kit which I’m building and was planning to put a couple of Ellis Clark SeaLions with it. But they have been ‘suspended’ and were very expensive anyway. So I went for the Catfish and Dogfish from Rails at reasonable prices to go with my Salmon. I also have a grampus somewhere which can tag along. I think that and a rake of Turbots will do me for engineering, but could I add a couple of BASS to the Dog/Catfish rake?

 

Andy

 

Given the different braking capabilities, you will need a brake van if you mix up air and vacum braked wagons. It is one of the reasons I only have vacum braked engineering trains on WHL4 which reduces the number of wagons in the engineering fleet. The 1976 picture typifies the short engineering train of the day and is a perfect size for modelling.

 

 

9 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Skog. They’re 3D printed. He only seems to advertise on Facebook which doesn’t make it easy!

This is where I’ve got to.

Not much to finish it, but just need to prioritise.

 

What I ideally need is the crane to go on top which seemed to be common on the WHL. But I can’t find one in 7mm.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

I thought Shapeways produce the cranes in all scales but their website currently only shows them for 2 and 4mm. Scaling them up should not be difficult for the manufacturer although whether this is economic is a different question. I have been pondering how to buy a couple of pairs of cranes for some time but have always been put off by the cost and postage which I consider excessive. 

 

 

[young37215]

The attached thread is worth a read, Darius's work with the Cambrian kits and Shapeways cranes is impressive. I just priced 2 Shapeways oo gauge cranes which come in at over £55 when VAT and postage is included. Given that they are simple 3D prints, I remain of the view that they are excessively expensive and will continue to run my Salmon without a crane.

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

Given the different braking capabilities, you will need a brake van if you mix up air and vacum braked wagons. It is one of the reasons I only have vacum braked engineering trains on WHL4 which reduces the number of wagons in the engineering fleet. The 1976 picture typifies the short engineering train of the day and is a perfect size for modelling.

 

 

2 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

Given the different braking capabilities, you will need a brake van if you mix up air and vacum braked wagons. It is one of the reasons I only have vacum braked engineering trains on WHL4 which reduces the number of wagons in the engineering fleet. The 1976 picture typifies the short engineering train of the day and is a perfect size for modelling.

 

 

 

I thought Shapeways produce the cranes in all scales but their website currently only shows them for 2 and 4mm. Scaling them up should not be difficult for the manufacturer although whether this is economic is a different question. I have been pondering how to buy a couple of pairs of cranes for some time but have always been put off by the cost and postage which I consider excessive. 

 

 

I thought Shapeways produce the cranes in all scales but their website currently only shows them for 2 and 4mm. Scaling them up should not be difficult for the manufacturer although whether this is economic is a different question. I have been pondering how to buy a couple of pairs of cranes for some time but have always been put off by the cost and postage which I consider excessive. 

 

 

Nice photo of a good train for me. Thanks. 

 

I’ve never seen the Shapeways crane in 7mm. Although I’m sure it could be done, like you I regard the Shapeways pricing as unreasonable, so I have not pursued that route. We have a 3D printing expert at our club and may have to try and twist his arm, but he normally refuses anything post 1923!

 

Edited June 30 by thegreenhowards

[thegreenhowards]

7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Make sure your shunters, guards and drivers know which are vacuum-, air- or dual-braked (or piped)!

Good point. I was forgetting that with the BASS wagons. I think all my other engineers fleet is vac braked, and it’s probably best to stick with that.

[Darius43]

OO Gauge Resin Printed Cranes And Generator For Cambrian Flangeway Salmon Wagons

 

These may be a bit easier on the wallet.

 

The seller does offer one or two things in O gauge so may be prepared to print some O gauge cranes if asked.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Edited June 30 by Darius43

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Good point. I was forgetting that with the BASS wagons. I think all my other engineers fleet is vac braked, and it’s probably best to stick with that.

Check your Salmons. Specific vehicles could be unbraked (YMO), air braked (YMA), air braked and vacuum piped (YMB) or vacuum piped (YMP).

[thegreenhowards]

On 30/06/2024 at 10:53, Darius43 said:

OO Gauge Resin Printed Cranes And Generator For Cambrian Flangeway Salmon Wagons

 

These may be a bit easier on the wallet.

 

The seller does offer one or two things in O gauge so may be prepared to print some O gauge cranes if asked.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Thanks for the tip off. I contacted the seller on eBay and he’d already done O gauge ones. A pair have been ordered £19.50 including postage. Much better value than Shapeways!

[thegreenhowards]

The talk about Salmons has spurred me into action and I cracked on with mine in front of Austria vs Turkey last night.

 

I’m now getting to the detail choices stage….and struggling!

 

After  John’s post, I realise that none were Vac braked, so running it with my Dogfish and Catfish will not be so easy. Will I need a brake van or could I get away with a through piped Salmon and three other wagons without a brake van? If I do need a brake van, should it be a standard 20T version or a Shark?

 

I’m trying to find a picture that I’m sure I’ve seen of a Salmon on the WHL with cranes and loaded with 60ft track panels and I think the bolsters had been removed (I’d rather not have bolsters - they always get broken). This is what I was thinking of recreating. Can anyone point me in the right direction for the photo?

Andy

 

[03060]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

The talk about Salmons has spurred me into action and I cracked on with mine in front of Austria vs Turkey last night.

 

I’m now getting to the detail choices stage….and struggling!

 

After  John’s post, I realise that none were Vac braked, so running it with my Dogfish and Catfish will not be so easy. Will I need a brake van or could I get away with a through piped Salmon and three other wagons without a brake van? If I do need a brake van, should it be a standard 20T version or a Shark?

 

I’m trying to find a picture that I’m sure I’ve seen of a Salmon on the WHL with cranes and loaded with 60ft track panels and I think the bolsters had been removed (I’d rather not have bolsters - they always get broken). This is what I was thinking of recreating. Can anyone point me in the right direction for the photo?

Andy

 

Morning Andy,

 

I'm afraid that I'm away on holiday so haven't got much information with me other than photos in a 'personal use' file (ie photos that I cannot reproduce here) of which the only Salmon photos I have with them crane fitted are from the 90s and all have the safety cages around them but like you I've seen images of them without (2 class 20s relaying at the Southern end of the WHL springs to mind ... possibly in one of Spannerman's Flickr files ?)

 

What I can say is that I've never come across a photo of a Shark anywhere on the line (yet) ... more's the pity ... so 20t brake vans would be the order of the day if required on the Mallaig line.

 

Not a lot of help I'm afraid but I'll see if I can find anything later that I can link here.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited July 3 by 03060
Extra info added.

[young37215]

Link below to WHL4 takes you to a couple of pictures taken by SC55015 of Salmon being using in a re-railing exercise at Rhu. Brake vans are not visible although I am fairly confident that there would have been a brake van for the mostly unbraked Salmon's. In more general terms I cannot find a picture of a Shark and don't recall having seen one on the WHL. Of course the Queen Mark brake that lived mostly at Crianlarich is an option in addition to the standard 20T although the majority of engineers trains that I have seen do'nt have a brake van.

 

 

[03060]

Having followed Rob's link to the photos in his thread and then having followed one of the photos back to Stuart Mackay's Flickr photos and then to his album of Rhu, there are these 3 images (plus others) ... note the 20t brake van just visible in the middle image.
 

Photo by Stuart Mackay.
 

Photo by Stuart Mackay.
 

Photo by Stuart Mackay.

 

These were some of the images I was thinking of regarding the Salmons.

 

Thanks Rob for the help in tracking them down.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited July 3 by 03060
Extra info added.

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks Ian & Rob,

 

I think Ian’s top picture of 37051 is the most useful view of the wagon. That seems it show individual rails rather than track panels and I think the bolsters are in place (unfortunately!). Do you think they’re unbraked & unpiped versions of the Salmons?

 

Andy

[bbishop]

On 03/07/2024 at 08:44, thegreenhowards said:

I think the bolsters had been removed (I’d rather not have bolsters - they always get broken). 

Andy

Oh, I dunno.  Replace the plastic or whitemetal stakes with sharpened nickel silver and warn your operators.  Keeps stray hands off your layout at exhibitions.  Bill

[thegreenhowards]

My Salmon is progressing nicely. 
 

 

 

I asked Mr ‘SKOG’ about the bolsters and brake wheels which I was missing. He was very helpful and a packet arrived FOC within two days. That’s service! I’m using his bolsters for now rather than taking up Bill’s suggestion! My cranes have also arrived as you can see.
 

 I have a number of questions which I hope one of the experts in here can help me with:

1. Have I got the crane and generator positions reasonably OK. They do seem to vary in photos.

2. I have added folded down ends (the grey bits at each end - tacked down). Some wagons seem to have these and others don’t. Was there any logic to it?

3. The bolsters seem to have four positions for the uprights. I intend to run my wagon with a modest load of 6-10 lengths of rail (to keep weight reasonable and avoid wasting too much expensive track). I therefore intend to use the inner positions on the bolsters. Is that correct.

4. I’m now thinking about livery, numbering and lettering. For livery, Black seems to be the most common, so I’ll go for that. Was the flat floor of the wagon black or grey? It looks rusty grey in many photos but that may just be weathering.

5. I can’t find any decent side on photos from the WHL to guide me on decals. So I’m thinking of basing it on DB996863 at Rutherglen on the Paul Bartlett zenfolio. I want to be able to use it on 60s, 70s or 80s trains if possible, so pre TOPS is good as that seems to have lasted until the early ‘80s (at least). Any better suggestions?

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/robelcrane

 

6. Any other glaring errors?

 

Thanks

 

Andy
 

 

 

[03060]

Hello Andy,

looking at the photos on Paul Bartlett's site I would 'suggest' that the Salmons with two cranes fitted just about all have them over where the diagonal trusses end, whereas those wagons with a single crane have them fitted mainly in the middle of the wagon although there are some with them at one end only, these seem to be in trains with similar positioned cranes which makes me wonder what the purpose of this is ?

 

Back home tomorrow afternoon so I may get chance to look at my Engineers wagon books for any further info.

 

I like the look of your wagon though, it's coming along nicely.

 

Regards,

Ian.

[young37215]

15 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

My Salmon is progressing nicely. 
 

 

 

I asked Mr ‘SKOG’ about the bolsters and brake wheels which I was missing. He was very helpful and a packet arrived FOC within two days. That’s service! I’m using his bolsters for now rather than taking up Bill’s suggestion! My cranes have also arrived as you can see.
 

 I have a number of questions which I hope one of the experts in here can help me with:

1. Have I got the crane and generator positions reasonably OK. They do seem to vary in photos.

2. I have added folded down ends (the grey bits at each end - tacked down). Some wagons seem to have these and others don’t. Was there any logic to it?

3. The bolsters seem to have four positions for the uprights. I intend to run my wagon with a modest load of 6-10 lengths of rail (to keep weight reasonable and avoid wasting too much expensive track). I therefore intend to use the inner positions on the bolsters. Is that correct.

4. I’m now thinking about livery, numbering and lettering. For livery, Black seems to be the most common, so I’ll go for that. Was the flat floor of the wagon black or grey? It looks rusty grey in many photos but that may just be weathering.

5. I can’t find any decent side on photos from the WHL to guide me on decals. So I’m thinking of basing it on DB996863 at Rutherglen on the Paul Bartlett zenfolio. I want to be able to use it on 60s, 70s or 80s trains if possible, so pre TOPS is good as that seems to have lasted until the early ‘80s (at least). Any better suggestions?

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/robelcrane

 

6. Any other glaring errors?

 

Thanks

 

Andy
 

 

 

 

1. There is a picture on Bartlett's website of a Salmon fitted with cranes DB996536 at Crianlarich in 1977. This has the cranes located in the most common place that I have seen namely over the ends of underframe, out another way  I think your cranes are currently too close to the ends of the wagon. That said and as you point out, there are numerous variations on this. At the end of the day I'd suggest that working to a picture will give you the best way to achieve something you are happy with. 

 

In terms of your cranes I think you have a similar issue to me in that they are not quite wide enough and need the spigots on the ends trimming off so that the cranes sit flush to the bed of the wagon.  

[thegreenhowards]

4 hours ago, young37215 said:

 

1. There is a picture on Bartlett's website of a Salmon fitted with cranes DB996536 at Crianlarich in 1977.

Thanks for that prompt, I had missed it completely! There doesn’t seem to be any visible numbering (ie all hidden under the dirt), so I could live with any decals if modelling that wagon! I can’t see any sign of a separate generator on that photo. Is it the object on top of the cranes?

 

Andy

[03060]

6 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks for that prompt, I had missed it completely! There doesn’t seem to be any visible numbering (ie all hidden under the dirt), so I could live with any decals if modelling that wagon! I can’t see any sign of a separate generator on that photo. Is it the object on top of the cranes?

 

Andy

Hello Andy,

 

I think that the cranes on the Paul Bartlett Crianlarich photo are a different make of crane to yours, there is a photo in Key Publishings Engineers Wagons vol.1 which refers to these as Slinger rail-lifting equipment.

 

I'll send you a PM with some other Salmon and crane info when I work out what will be most useful to you.

 

Regards,

Ian.

[thegreenhowards]

The Salmon is coming on nicely. 
 

 

 

I’ve just got Decals, chains/ ties for the rail and final weathering detail to go. Thanks to Ian ( @03060) for his photos and to @BigAndy for the rail weathering suggestion - have I got it right?

 

I’ve drawn a blank on decals - no response from Railtec. So I fear I’m going to have to pick out individual numbers and letters. Possibly using 4mm ones as the solebar is so narrow. 
 

For restraint of the rails I’ve seen ties and chains. Was there any rhyme or reason to this? Or was it just random?

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

I set Glenfinnan up in the garden today. This is only the second time this year thanks to the weather…and the first was pretty short!

 

Anyway, it gave me a chance to try out my new toy, 37043 in white stripe livery, which is a new Gaugemaster special of the latest Heljan offering.

 

Here’s a close up.

 

…and here she is on the viaduct (which my wife is trying to hide amongst the giant sunflowers!

I’m generally pleased with the loco, but I’m a bit disgusted at Heljan in not providing an etched nameplate on a £500+ loco. That’s just mean! It does give me the chance to rename her when I buy a proper plate. The problem is which one to choose.

12 was my favourite namer, so she’s a good contender, but according to Rob’s guide all those up to 42 had double riveted roofs. I don’t know which rivets should be doubled, so I may just choose to ignore them!
26 never got the white line. 

27 is another possible, but same problem as 12.

81 had the cantrail strengtheners so not an easy renumber.

 

I’d rather choose a namer, so I can cover the existing plates. So 43 is the only absolutely correct choice. But I think I might go for 12 or 27 as everyone will have 43! The other thing I’m not sure about is the grey roof. Does anyone know for sure if this is correct? I can’t find any prototype photos of it and Donnelly’s book is silent on the subject. So I suspect it’s wrong. I may have to weather it heavily!

Andy

 

Edited July 30 by thegreenhowards