Baseboard Alignment Dowels

[Nick G]

27 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Did you order them specifically (I didnt know that you could), or did you cut a new set of holes?

 

Just drilled new holes.

[Gilbert]

Thinking aloud......if the diffference between the hole and the DCC Concepts gizmo is 6mm (25mm less 19mm) could some carefully cut 3mm spacers be fixed in place inside the circumference of the space and the existing holes used un-modified?

ChrisH

[5BarVT]

Should be able to use the 25mm holes unmodified.

A DCC Concepts dowel requires a 13mm hole with a 19mm rebate to stop it sliding right through.  Drilling a 13mm hole inside the 25mm rebate should work.
I always use a minimum of 12mm thickness so that there is something to glue to and with the rebate being oversized I think that would matter more.

 

So my suggestion is glue a small (1”/25mm sq) piece of 6 or 9mm ply behind the rebate, drill 13mm hole and fit the dowel.  You might need to add packing if the 25mm rebate is deeper than you need.  Paper/card will be sufficient. You have the benefit that with the rebate being laser cut you should be able to drill from the outside.

The disadvantage yo have is that it will be more difficult to drill an accurate pilot hole through adjacent boards so care in finding an accurate centre of the 25mm rebate will be in order.

 

Paul.

[JohnR]

On 20/08/2022 at 20:18, 5BarVT said:

So my suggestion is glue a small (1”/25mm sq) piece of 6 or 9mm ply behind the rebate, drill 13mm hole and fit the dowel.  You might need to add packing if the 25mm rebate is deeper than you need.  Paper/card will be sufficient. You have the benefit that with the rebate being laser cut you should be able to drill from the outside.

The disadvantage yo have is that it will be more difficult to drill an accurate pilot hole through adjacent boards so care in finding an accurate centre of the 25mm rebate will be in order.

 

Paul.

 

I think I might have to go down the "drill new holes" route. The 25mm rebate is 9mm deep, while the DCC dowels only need 2mm. Making sure that the holes in adjacent boards are aligned might be an issue. 

[5BarVT]

25 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

I think I might have to go down the "drill new holes" route. The 25mm rebate is 9mm deep, while the DCC dowels only need 2mm. Making sure that the holes in adjacent boards are aligned might be an issue. 

Having ‘got it wrong’ on one of my boards, 9mm deep would be so sloppy to be useless.

If there’s room for a 9mm rebate, presumably the end boards are 12mm thick.  If so, that’s a good depth to work with as it’s enough to hold the dowel but not so much that drilling errors cause misalignment.

Hopefully you haven't constructed the boards yet as it’s far easier to drill the holes with just the end pieces clamped together.  The process is drill the pilot hole through both end pieces while clamped, separate and drill 19mm rebate from outside, then turn over and drill 13mm through from the back.

This time around I have a (small) pillar drill which made getting the pilot holes square on a lot easier but it is possible without (as I had to on my previous layout).  It’s also possible to do it with the boards built as long as the bracing gives room for the drill plus spade bit.

(Photos of my efforts both v1 and v2 are available on my thread.)

Paul. 

[Harlequin]

42 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

I think I might have to go down the "drill new holes" route. The 25mm rebate is 9mm deep, while the DCC dowels only need 2mm. Making sure that the holes in adjacent boards are aligned might be an issue. 

 

Clamp the boards together with the alignment you want then drill a small pilot hole right through the mated end pieces, centred where you want the dowels to be. The hole diameter should be just big enough to accept the tip of the forstner bit so that it can't wander when you start drilling.

 

Try to get it perpendicular but it doesn't have to be perfect because where the boards meet the holes will be almost perfectly aligned, whatever angle you drill at!

 

Then unclamp and the pilot holes on the outer faces become the guides for the centre of your forstner bit.

 

Holding the forstner bit exactly perpendicular to the face of the wood while you drill, is very difficult on a bulky baseboard. Ideally you'd use a floor-standing pillar drill and there are other neat attachments to drills that will ensure exactly perpendicular drilling but without those things you have to line up by eye (maybe with some squares clamped to the timber for sighting), summon up your courage and just go for it.

 

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

Having ‘got it wrong’ on one of my boards, 9mm deep would be so sloppy to be useless.

If there’s room for a 9mm rebate, presumably the end boards are 12mm thick.  If so, that’s a good depth to work with as it’s enough to hold the dowel but not so much that drilling errors cause misalignment.

Hopefully you haven't constructed the boards yet as it’s far easier to drill the holes with just the end pieces clamped together.  The process is drill the pilot hole through both end pieces while clamped, separate and drill 19mm rebate from outside, then turn over and drill 13mm through from the back.

This time around I have a (small) pillar drill which made getting the pilot holes square on a lot easier but it is possible without (as I had to on my previous layout).  It’s also possible to do it with the boards built as long as the bracing gives room for the drill plus spade bit.

(Photos of my efforts both v1 and v2 are available on my thread.)

Paul. 

 

Hi Paul,

The Tim Horn boards are made using 9mm ply, and an insert fits on the end to provide the backing piece to screw the dowels to. Sorry if my description is  poor - hopefully this screenshot from a YouTube video of one being assembled helps.

 

[JohnR]

58 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

Clamp the boards together with the alignment you want then drill a small pilot hole right through the mated end pieces, centred where you want the dowels to be. The hole diameter should be just big enough to accept the tip of the forstner bit so that it can't wander when you start drilling.

 

Try to get it perpendicular but it doesn't have to be perfect because where the boards meet the holes will be almost perfectly aligned, whatever angle you drill at!

 

Then unclamp and the pilot holes on the outer faces become the guides for the centre of your forstner bit.

 

Holding the forstner bit exactly perpendicular to the face of the wood while you drill, is very difficult on a bulky baseboard. Ideally you'd use a floor-standing pillar drill and there are other neat attachments to drills that will ensure exactly perpendicular drilling but without those things you have to line up by eye (maybe with some squares clamped to the timber for sighting), summon up your courage and just go for it.

 

 

A lack of woodworking tools (eg clamps etc) and a lack of woodworking skills is why I dont have the confidence to get this right - hence why I opted for a baseboard kit which is no more difficult to assemble than flat pack furniture (which is sometimes beyond my skill level!)

 

[Harlequin]

16 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

A lack of woodworking tools (eg clamps etc) and a lack of woodworking skills is why I dont have the confidence to get this right - hence why I opted for a baseboard kit which is no more difficult to assemble than flat pack furniture (which is sometimes beyond my skill level!)

 

Oh dear.

 

Seems like it would be much simpler to use the standard 25mm dowels in the alignment dowel pockets provided, then, and do the electrical connection separately.

 

[longchap]

I make my own baseboards from ply, the ends and sides being 9mm and fitting DCC Concepts alignment dowels was a simple process, just as Harlequin describes. A pair of clamps cost just a few pounds and most modellers will have a drill and bits.

 

If doubtful of skill, just practice with a couple of ply offcuts. It really is not at all difficult.

 

Bill

 

 

[RichardT]

TBH, although I admire many of DCC Concepts’ ideas, I think that their power-connecting alignment dowels are trying to be a bit too clever for their own good, and that was before I discovered from this thread that they aren’t a “standard” size*.  Not sure what problem they’re trying to solve.

 

I use “normal” dowels for alignment only, and separate power connectors for the wiring. Makes fault-finding easier too.

 

RichardT

 

*”standard” in inverted commas because railway modellers love standards so much we have hundreds of different ones..

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, RichardT said:

TBH, although I admire many of DCC Concepts’ ideas, I think that their power-connecting alignment dowels are trying to be a bit too clever for their own good, and that was before I discovered from this thread that they aren’t a “standard” size*.  Not sure what problem they’re trying to solve.

 

I use “normal” dowels for alignment only, and separate power connectors for the wiring. Makes fault-finding easier too.

 

RichardT

 

*”standard” in inverted commas because railway modellers love standards so much we have hundreds of different ones..

 

I wanted to make everything neat and tidy, and thought I could kill two birds with one stone. I dont know why they dont also make them in the "standard" size.

[longchap]

10 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

I wanted to make everything neat and tidy, and thought I could kill two birds with one stone. I dont know why they dont also make them in the "standard" size.

We all make mistakes, it's part of the learning process, so focus on the task ahead, not regret the past and move on with your railway.

 

Bon courage and best wishes,

 

Bill

[Nick G]

There is a useful video on Youtube about fitting DCC Concepts dowels

 

 

 

[JohnR]

27 minutes ago, Nick G said:

There is a useful video on Youtube about fitting DCC Concepts dowels

 

 

Thanks, but thats the other type of DCC Concepts dowels, not the power connecting ones I wanted to use. Larry is also installing them in a "regular" style baseboard, not a Tim Horn ply baseboard. 

[Nick G]

6 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Thanks, but thats the other type of DCC Concepts dowels, not the power connecting ones I wanted to use. Larry is also installing them in a "regular" style baseboard, not a Tim Horn ply baseboard. 

 

They are no different as I followed the guide to fit the power ones. You drill holes in Tim Horn boards the same as any boards?

[5BarVT]

3 hours ago, Nick G said:

There is a useful video on Youtube about fitting DCC Concepts dowels

Agreed, explains far better than my words above.  One slight mod I would make: there is a slight amount of wiggle possible until the glue sets, so I would drill the second board before glueing both together then you still have the wiggle room to correct for perfect alignment. 
Another trick in case of need: if you need to deepen the rebate after the through hole has been drilled, the drill can be a little more wayward as it no longer has its centre fixed.  Putting the bit into a screwdriver and hand working can give slightly more control.  (That’s the method I use for clearing paint out as drill, then paint, then glue in the dowels.)

Paul.

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

Thanks, but thats the other type of DCC Concepts dowels, not the power connecting ones I wanted to use. Larry is also installing them in a "regular" style baseboard, not a Tim Horn ply baseboard. 

As NickG says, installation is the same for both types.  (Check with DCC Concepts if in doubt - I always find them quick and helpful.)

The only difference with a Tim Horn ply board is the internal bracing getting in the way.  If you drill the holes in the ends before adding the internal bracing it will work fine.

The idea of practicing on offcuts is well worth it: I found my technique improved as I did more joints.  You can drill lots of trial holes in a pair of dummy ends and see how the dowels go - just knock them out after each go!

Paul.