Identity of make of this GWR 42/52/72xx etched kit required please

[hayfield]

I am hoping someone can assist me. I have bought a couple of 42/52/72xx etched brass and nickelsilver (etch) only kits, neither the instructions or the etches have the makers name other than the initials JM etched on them. I am very impressed of these etches, which on first look seem to be of excellent quality, I am just curious of their make.

 

At a guess I think they may have been a scratch builders aid type of kit, or someone's personal design where they bought some extra frets 

 

 

Nickelsilver chassis

 

 

Brass body

 

Initially I thought these might be Wolsey works, someone else thought they may be PDK. Both sell either the 42xx or 72xx but not a kit combining both, also I think Wolsey kits are all nickelsilver

 

 

[Brassey]

The chassis etch is odd in that it only includes one side on each etch but everything else is duplicated.  Hopefully the chassis sides were mirror images!

Edited August 14, 2022 by Brassey
typo

[Bucoops]

The mirror image method has been used by SE Finecast but that usually includes the name on and hardly anything duplicacted like this. Worsley do etch in brass.

[hayfield]

 

7 minutes ago, Brassey said:

The chassis etch is odd in that it only includes one side on each etch but everything else is duplicated.  Hopefully the chassis sides were mirror images!

 

Thanks for the thought, I think its the same etch etched/duplicated, so it should be OK. It certainly has a few spares on the frets

 

I have seen what you describe before, Jidenco comes to mind, but the etching in this kit is far superior

 

I have a Hobby Holidays chassis jig, if they are out then the jig resolves this anyway, but thanks for the thought

 

One issue is how to compensate (if I go down this route) the chassis) Rocking beams are included.

Looking at Mike Sharman's Flexichassis book my mind just boggles at both a 2-8-0 and 2-8-2 designs

[hayfield]

1 minute ago, Bucoops said:

The mirror image method has been used by SE Finecast but that usually includes the name on and hardly anything duplicacted like this. Worsley do etch in brass.

 

Bucoops

 

Thanks, I was just going from their kit description on the website, firstly they do separate kits for the 42xx & 72xx, plus it states that body and chassis are etched in NS,

 

Sorry for the confusion, I do have one of their brass (narrow gauge) coach etches

[Brassey]

I have an LNWR C class 0-8-0 to build. IIRC may plan is to have all axles moving: twin beams on the rear two driven axles with single beams either side of the gearbox and a sandwich central beam between the front two. That gives 3 point compensation. 
 

you have enough beams to do that too. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

17 hours ago, Brassey said:

I have an LNWR C class 0-8-0 to build. IIRC may plan is to have all axles moving: twin beams on the rear two driven axles with single beams either side of the gearbox and a sandwich central beam between the front two. That gives 3 point compensation. 
 

you have enough beams to do that too. 

I built my LNWR C Class 0-8-0 with a "rigid" driven rear axle, single beam between the leading and second axles  and lightly sprung third axle (flangeless wheels as per the prototype). It was the simplest option for P4 and has worked well.

[hayfield]

3 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I built my LNWR C Class 0-8-0 with a "rigid" driven rear axle, single beam between the leading and second axles  and lightly sprung third axle (flangeless wheels as per the prototype). It was the simplest option for P4 and has worked well.

 

Jol

 

Thanks for replying and I hope your health issues are behind you

 

I never knew the prototype had flangeless wheels, but there is a lot I don't know

 

Your explanation sounds much easier than Mike Sharman's flexichassis design, but I guess things have both moved on and simpler solutions have evolved. As of yet I have not got my head around which wheel will be the driven one. I guess it will be the rear one with either a standard + gearbox or one with a drive stretcher added as I want the cab free of motor/gears

 

The one thing stopping me is I want to try out both London Road and High Level hornblocks on a more simple design first

 

Just a thought I have 2 sets of rocking beams in the etches, but if I fix the rear wheel it makes the rear rockers redundant ?

[Brassey]

3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I built my LNWR C Class 0-8-0 with a "rigid" driven rear axle, single beam between the leading and second axles  and lightly sprung third axle (flangeless wheels as per the prototype). It was the simplest option for P4 and has worked well.

Jol

 

Thanks and that’s my other option. I do have the flangeless wheels too. 
 

Cheers

 

Peter

[Barclay]

6 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I built my LNWR C Class 0-8-0 with a "rigid" driven rear axle, single beam between the leading and second axles  and lightly sprung third axle (flangeless wheels as per the prototype). It was the simplest option for P4 and has worked well.

I did the same for an 0-8-0T and it works fine. 

[daifly]

On 14/08/2022 at 12:42, hayfield said:

I am hoping someone can assist me. I have bought a couple of 42/52/72xx etched brass and nickelsilver (etch) only kits, neither the instructions or the etches have the makers name other than the initials JM etched on them. I am very impressed of these etches, which on first look seem to be of excellent quality, I am just curious of their make.

 

At a guess I think they may have been a scratch builders aid type of kit, or someone's personal design where they bought some extra frets 

 

 

Nickelsilver chassis

 

 

Brass body

 

Initially I thought these might be Wolsey works, someone else thought they may be PDK. Both sell either the 42xx or 72xx but not a kit combining both, also I think Wolsey kits are all nickelsilver

 

 

Just tripped over this thread whilst looking for something else. Almost certainly these etches are by the late John Maidment who listed the 42xx & 72xx kits in his range. There would normally be a full set of castings etc. too.

 

Dave

loco.pdf

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, daifly said:

Just tripped over this thread whilst looking for something else. Almost certainly these etches are by the late John Maidment who listed the 42xx & 72xx kits in his range. There would normally be a full set of castings etc. too.

 

Dave

loco.pdf 90.32 kB · 8 downloads

 

 

Dave

 

Thanks very much, At one time these etches came up on eBay as etches only, the first ones fetched very good money, I brought two about a year after the first few were listed and paid much less then the premium prices paid initially.  Lets face it decent chassis if you are lucky cost £20 + but some do go up to £50, and as you can see the etchings are of high quality. Being a GWR loco many of the parts as a standard size so can be sourced, I have 3 whitemetal locos varying from an incomplete set of parts, to an assembled and un-assembled kit(s) plus a box full of whitemetal and brass castings, also lots of buffers. I should really start at least putting together castings with the etchings and or make up a composite kit using the boiler, smoke and fireboxes from a whitemetal lit.

 

Has anyone got a set of John Maidment instructions for this kit please which they are happy to copy

[k22009]

I've made one of the sets from Ebay up earlier this year, when i get chance i''ll post some build photos.

[k22009]

The first thing i needed to do was decide which option to build from the etches so i went for the 72xx 2-8-2.

 

 

On 14/08/2022 at 12:55, Brassey said:

Hopefully the chassis sides were mirror images!

 They are not. 

 

Parts removed from the etches, i decided to build it with the full available options using the hornblocks and have side beams for the rear 2 axles and a central beam pairing for the front 2 axles. The hornblock bearings are the square etches with the circular bearing hole, 2 are sweated together with the half etched recesses facing each other along with a bearing, these will slide on the frame sides once installed. The hornblock bearings are then retained by making a retaining spacer with 4 of the springs attached on each corner, these are then screwed down to one of the spacers. Pcb can then be later added to these spacers for pickups.

 

 

Hornblock bearings made up. There is no provision for movement of the rear axle at all. As you can see the rear frame sections which are fitted to the inside of the main franes and line up with the 3 holes already etched in place, the rear frame extensions come with a hole for a bearing but i decided to make a radial truck up from some scrap etch shown on the right of the bearings. This is made up from 2 curved top and bottom pieces with ends made to include a 2mm bearing. this then has a couple of small tabs that a wire fitted in them and onto one of the frame spacers will enable some lateral movement. Note spacer 4 needs the sides removing where etched so that the rear side beams do not foul.

 

 

Next up was the coupling and connecting rods, these are made up articulated.

 

 

 

Frame spacers fitted  ensuring the beams will miss and the hornblock guide reatainers will fit. I numbered each bearing so they would fit in the correct position and orientation later.

 

 

The beams were then fitted. The radial truck is also in place some slight,y angled guides are fitted to the inside of the rear frame extensions and the wire is visible to provide restraint.

 

 

 

The front pony truck is a simple fold up piece with 2mm bearings for the axle.

 

 

And with a motor and High level gearbox fitted to the rear centre drivers the wheels have been assembled. 

 

 

 

[daifly]

I hadn't appreciated that these etches were for 4mm scale. John Maidment produced 7mm kits so these may have been produced in the smaller scale as an etch only. 

 

Dave

[k22009]

Ok with the chassis nearly complete apart from brake gear and pick ups, it's onto the body.

 

As this one is for the 72xx the full length of footplate is required if you are building the shorter alternatives therewill be some footplate to remove. Again a choice must be made whether to model the flat or raised footplate, this one is raised and hence the larger cylinder ends will be used rather than the cut down version. there are several pieces for the valences and these must be spliced in place.

 

 

The footplate ends are curved to match the valence profile, rivets punched out. You can see the mark where the footplate is removed for shorter footplate versions, the half etched recess is for the tank sides.

 

 

Soldered together

 

 

At this stage it's not very robust so care must be taken not to bend anything use a block of wood or similar to keep it all flat. The buffer beams can be also added.

 

 

There are no tabs or slots for anything to locate to on the footplate so folds bends etc must be done on the fly and hope it all fits ok.

These are for the firebox and the tapered boiler section along with the tank tops, formers are a bit thin on the ground but there are some for the firebox. F marks the front where former D fits, E at the cab end. there are tabs here that fit into the tank top. However the tank top slopes part way along, there is an etched line under the base for this but the tapered boiler section does not take this into consideration so you will need to file some from the end that butts against the firebox so there is no gap.

 

 

the slope is quite shallow, also it's best to file the firebox end into a better profile before soldering it all up.

 

 

As i mentioned formers are a bit thin there is also no boiler section between the smokebox and tapered setion so this needs to be made up yourself, along with some formers for both smokebox and front boiler section, trying to solder them together otherwise without will only allow errors to creep in. The smokebox has rivets to punch out.

 

 

The tank/cab sides needs to have a stiffener attached to the inside, the tank sides needs the front forming. The stiffener has a slot in the top which locates on the cab front using this will allow you to position the stiffener on the tank sides.

 

 

Once both sides have been done the tank top fits onto the top of the stiffener, along with the cab front the sides tank top/firebox assembly can be all fitted togetherto form a nice robust unit.

 

 

The boiler front section and smokebox can now be added to the assembly.

 

 

You can then start to assemble the rear cab abd bunker, again options are available for various bunkers.

 

 

Before assembling both the front and rear sections you will need to solder some nuts to the footplate top wherever they locate with the chassis spacers, there are holes and they hopefully line up.

Below the assemblies are just loosely positioned to check for the fit.

 

 

I'm not sure what happened to the saddle assembly i couldnt see how it was going to work, so i made my own using part of the etch supplied and discarding the rest, basically the narrow wider strip needs removing and a new rear section cutting out and soldering in place. this can then be soldered to the bottom of the smokebox.

 

 

 There is some splasher sides and tops for the front drivers to fit along with the boiler support which has 2 options to choose from. After this you should have no parts left and it's basically detailing left, i'll add a few more photos of the completed chassis and body later.

 

 

Edited May 21 by k22009

[Hal Nail]

11 hours ago, k22009 said:

After this you should have no parts left

A decent morning's work!

[rustynuts]

I also have a set of the 42/52/72xx etches and I believe that JM stands for John Maidment, PDK supplied me a full set of castings so I can build it.

 

regards

 

Paul

[k22009]

Just to finish off with the photos i took some more of the chassis if they are of any use to anyone.

 

The cylinder for the flat footplate will be lower.

 

 

The sprung wire is shown here for the radial truck.

The beams were also a little high so i needed to solder some small pads onto them.

 

 

The motion bracket is soldered to this C shaped piece, there is a cut out on the frame tops for this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22 by k22009

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, rustynuts said:

I also have a set of the 42/52/72xx etches and I believe that JM stands for John Maidment, PDK supplied me a full set of castings so I can build it.

 

regards

 

Paul

 

My etchings also have the JM initials etched into both frets. Both kits came without castings or boiler tube. Most if not all the castings should be available from the usual part suppliers, I guess I have many in my parts list

 

As I said,  I brought 2 sets of etches last year or the year before. Thankfully I never paid silly money for them, on the other hand they were not cheap as chips, as my modelling plans have changed slightly and I also have a 7mm scale one now to build, I doubt if I will build one let alone both. So I will be letting one set of etches go. I dont have the time to put them on eBay at the moment but I have put 4 photos below and if anyone wants to make a sensible offer, I am happy to consider it.

 

There are two pages where both the body and chassis parts are identified and a separate page with a chassis diagram

 

There is a sheet stating fittings, whilst the fittings never came with the kit, it may give some idea of what extra parts are required. 

Chimney,safety valve tall, safety valve medium, buffers, smokebox door,outside steam pipes, valve rocker, Tank filter (filler?) tank vent mudhole door and boiler tube

 

 

 One side of the body etch 

 

  The second side

 

  One side of the chassis etches

 

  The other side of the chassis etches

 

Happy to supply better photos if required, as I said, all sensible offers will be considered, as I would like to find a decent home (not saying eBay buyers are not decent)