Chinese RTR Locomotive Models

[jjb1970]

Haidar are more famous for the brass models they made, this is a DF4C. The DF4 family were essentially the standard mainline locomotive over much of China when I first visited and throughout the 90's. Built in vast numbers from the late 60's until well into the 00's in a series of versions, I believe well over 7,500 were built. As with the DF the first ones were built at Dalian but then more widely. I always found them very good looking machines, and they were capable of impressive performance, some passenger trains in China were very long and the coaches were heavy looking brutes with air-con, some of the passenger versions are geared for 170kmh. Haidar made a few of these in various liveries, people tend to think of them in green livery but I really like the blue livery, this one was allocated to Shenyang Tongliao. The model is beautifully done, equivalent to Japanese and Korean brass builders, with a lovely finish and a real presence. I really do need to get around to fitting kadees though. You can still find these, they're not cheap but they're not crazy and I suspect few who buy them will be disappointed.

 

 

[Allegheny1600]

That’s certainly a lovely looking model and prototype - I presume it’s Brass (not Copper!!!)

Is it restricted in any way for curves etc?

I’ve never had a Brass Diesel so I don’t know.

Cheers and thanks for showing.

John

[jjb1970]

Chinese suppliers always seem to use copper to describe what we call brass models. Not sure if it's a language thing or if they do use copper, either way they models seem very durable.

On running quality, one of the issues with brass models in general is they tend to be a bit temperamental and sensitive to track laying. They tend to use high quality motors and trick chassis design but they can be prone to short circuit and because they usually put realistic appearance ahead of what would be a good compromise for operation on a layout they can be problematic. This one is fine, I suspect it would struggle on R2 but I think R3 would be fine. I have quite a few US outline models by Overland and my advice to people thinking about diving into US brass is that if you want to run them as opposed to just displaying them you need to be comfortable with taking them apart to do trouble shooting.

For the DF4, it's basically the Chinese class 47 and several manufacturers (including Bachmann) have made excellent models in plastic or diecast.

[jjb1970]

This is pretty impressive for something shot with a drone:

 

https://youtu.be/YPXz3uf8XzM

[TEAMYAKIMA]

On 15/07/2022 at 10:15, jjb1970 said:

For the DF4, it's basically the Chinese class 47 and several manufacturers (including Bachmann) have made excellent models in plastic or diecast.

Yes, absolutely. I've got three Haidar ones, seven Bachmann ones and one MTC one. 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by TEAMYAKIMA

[jjb1970]

The Bachmann model is excellent, it's interesting that Bachmann China have applied the same approach to upgrading models already in their range by re-tooling, though it means it can be confusing to understand what you are getting. I know they have at least two sets of tooling for the DF11 and I think for the DF4. Their Chinese models are extremely well done. The MTC model is lovely, as is the recent Aurora model.

[jjb1970]

Bachmann also sold some factory finished brass DF4 locomotives, though the only ones I have seen were the later DF4D with its different more angular styling. I think they were made for Bachmann by Bowande.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

50 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Bachmann also sold some factory finished brass DF4 locomotives, though the only ones I have seen were the later DF4D with its different more angular styling. I think they were made for Bachmann by Bowande.

 

 

I've got one for sale at the moment!

[jjb1970]

32 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

 

I've got one for sale at the moment!

Whereabouts?

[TEAMYAKIMA]

48 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Whereabouts?

 

I'll PM you - anyone else interest please PM me.

[jjb1970]

I had a lucky run on these this month, I saw two mint examples with kadee's fitted (not a minor thing as fitting kadee's to these is a pain), one in the passenger orange with yellow stripe livery and one in green with yellow stripe on Yahoo auctions Japan which after shipping and GST came to S$800 (about £470) which is a bargain for two of these in 'as new condition' including boxes and all paperwork in 'as new' condition. I got a factory painted brass SS1 electric by N27 from the same seller at a bargain price too, again the model looks to have been kept boxed and never used and came in at about £270 after GST and delivery from Japan which is a great buy.

[jjb1970]

The new additions, the Haidar DF4 really is a beautiful model, I recommend 100% if anyone see's them for sale.

 

[jjb1970]

I have amended the title of this thread from Haidar DF4 to Chinese RTR locomotive models, as there may be people with an interest in Chinese models or who just would like to explore the subject and so gathering stuff together rather than individual threads might be more useful. I will post stuff from time to time (and may move stuff I've posted before here) but would be more than happy for others interested in the world of Chinese model trains to share stuff here too - news, information, pics, opinions etc.

[jjb1970]

The Charming Model Train Studio HO model of the NY6 diesel hydraulic. I just got this, it's now quite an old model and hard to find and has a bit of a reputation for being nice but too fragile. However I saw a great deal on this pre-owned example on Yahoo Japan auctions from a seller I've bought quite a bit from for a good price and so decided it was worth a punt.

My phone pics really don't do it justice. Charming/Hao were a high end manufacturer who seemed to evolve into Changming (keeping track of companies in Chinese model trains is difficult, they come and go), they had a reputation for extremely high standards of accuracy, detail and finish, as well as being enthusiasts of trick digital features. I think this model dates to 2017 but has a diesel smoke generator in addition to sound and various lighting features. Personally I'd prefer a vanilla analogue model but this was a nice S/H example at a good price so hey ho and all that. The model is all metal and beautifully finished, with all sorts of etched brass grills and details, brass small parts etc. It's one of those models which looks pretty good in pictures but truly superb in the hand. 

The prototype is a 4250HP diesel hydraulic (uprated to 5000HP in the following batch) made in Germany by Henschel. I like them, I never saw any sadly and the Chinese appear to have had similar issues as some BR types and the Japanese DD54 with German hydraulic technology but they were good looking machines IMO.

I really can't comment on the fragility issues as I don't have access to an HO layout, but it is a beautiful looking model.

 

[jjb1970]

This is one I posted a couple of years ago, it's a DF3 in HO from Haidar, it's an old model now (not sure when it came out but I think late 00's/early 2010's) but can still be found.  If you do a web search there's a guy in HK with stock for US$119 for this green version and US$149 post paid for the blue version which is a steal. I bought my examples from him and his service was excellent. The DF was China's first generation diesel electric locomotive first built at Dalian but with production at several locomotive works. As was rather common with technology in that part of the world in the 1950's it was basically a Chinese license built copy of a locomotive from the USSR which itself used a diesel engine based on a Fairbanks Morse design, however the Chinese DF looked very different. The DF evolved into the DF3, intended to be double unit locomotives apparently they were more commonly used singly. When I first visited China in the early 90's they were still quite visible but even then later designs (particularly the ubiquitous DF4 family) were much more common and as far as I know they have long since been retired though I wouldn't be surprised if there is a survivor or two in out of the way industrial lines.

The model is superbly done, the number of separately fitted parts is a bit bonkers. Haidar make brass models (or made, I haven't seen or heard much from them for a while) and this plastic DF3 is pretty much equivalent to brass in detail. The DF/DF3 is also done by N27 and Changming, the Changming is probably the best version (Changming models really are are top notch) but given you can get this for US$119 it's well worth a punt and stands up extremely well against the newer alternatives. Unless examining up close and doing the equivalent of pixel peeping with photographs or looking for artifacts when listening to audio gear the older Haidar model is really more than good enough and isn't shamed by N27 or Changming.

 

[jjb1970]

A very nice example of Chinese outline,  the SS1 electric in HO by N27. The SS1 was China's first serial production electric following the 6Y1 and 6Y2. The 6Y1 was largely reliant on Soviet technology while the 6Y2 was an Alsthom type. The SS1 is said to be basically an improved 6Y1 incorporating technology from the 6Y2. Despite the Soviet collaboration on the original 6Y1 I always think the SS1 looks much more Western European than Soviet.

 

The N27 model is brass and beautifully done, it is fully equivalent to Korean brass in my opinion. This is one of the earlier style, later versions were more European looking. CMR do a plastic alternative which is also very nicely done.

 

[jjb1970]

Another in my occasional posts highlighting the wonderful world of Chinese model trains.

 

I suspect I know what some of you are thinking - that's not Chinese, it's a Romanian 060DA! No, well not quite. In the 1970's Romania exported a large number of the design to China where they were class ND2. These may have some interest for British Diesel enthusiasts as they were powered by a license built Sulzer 12LDA28 and the bogies might look familiar. They were actually a Swiss design sold to Romania, from SLM/Sulzer and the body design certainly has a look of 1960's Swiss types, at least the front bit.

 

There are two HO models I know of, by Bachmann and ChangMing. This is the ChangMing version (CM), CM are a high end producer who major on detail and like trick digital features. They're not cheap but their products are exceptionally well done. My pictures really do not do it justice, the finish is superb and there are all sorts of ethed details and a crazy number of separate parts, to put into a British context CM are like an Accurascale model (though without the good value pricing sadly).

 

They put a lot of effort into presentation, the quality of the packaging is superb, with an outer slip case with a nice painting of an ND2 around a lovely heavy, textured card box. Inside the model comes in a display case which is actually pretty good and more than good enough to use if you want static display. However, I've criticized British outline companies for excessive box size and this is guilty too. OK you get the model in a nice display case so the box will be big, but I'd probably prefer to lose the case and have a sensible size box. On the other hand it is an incredibly secure option.

 

The cabs are crazily detailed, all painted, with separately fitted control desk handles and stuff and a nicely done driver figure in one end. The engine room is also represented with a Sulzer engine visible through the ER windows. The model has working fans, exhaust smoke, sound and fancy lighting. I have zero interest in that stuff, but it was the best option available for the model when I looked (I got a great deal from a seller in HK) so c'est la vie.

 

The alternative is Bachmann, I'll also try and dig out the Bachmann, their model is also superbly done. Is the CM better? Yes, in my view. Is it worth the extra? The Bachmann can be found for about half the price of the CM if you look around and frankly the differences really aren't that great. The Bachmann is also well done with excellent detail and on a layout I suspect few would notice a difference. I guess it is have a look and you pays your money and makes your choice. 

 

 

[Erichill16]

Does look like a beautiful model and I especially like the bogie detail. 
Bogies certainly look similar to those fitted to the SBB Ae6/6 and the OBB 1010.

Are you planning a Chinese layout?

[jjb1970]

Alas, no. Singapore doesn't really lend itself to HO modelling because of pressures on space, and I suspect the climate would be difficult for durability. I've been planning a small combination N and narrow gauge layout which will be Japanese N on one side of a loop with a partition in the middle and OO/HO9 on the other but that's making slow progress. 

For now my OO and HO is stored away, with a little bit on display.

[Erichill16]

Do you know what the red contraption is on the cab side, is it some kind of tablet exchange device?

The front cab windows are very Swiss looking.

[GrumpyPenguin]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Another in my occasional posts highlighting the wonderful world of Chinese model trains.

 

I suspect I know what some of you are thinking - that's not Chinese, it's a Romanian 060DA! No, well not quite. In the 1970's Romania exported a large number of the design to China where they were class ND2. These may have some interest for British Diesel enthusiasts as they were powered by a license built Sulzer 12LDA28 and the bogies might look familiar. They were actually a Swiss design sold to Romania, from SLM/Sulzer and the body design certainly has a look of 1960's Swiss types, at least the front bit.

 

There are two HO models I know of, by Bachmann and ChangMing. This is the ChangMing version (CM), CM are a high end producer who major on detail and like trick digital features. They're not cheap but their products are exceptionally well done. My pictures really do not do it justice, the finish is superb and there are all sorts of ethed details and a crazy number of separate parts, to put into a British context CM are like an Accurascale model (though without the good value pricing sadly).

 

They put a lot of effort into presentation, the quality of the packaging is superb, with an outer slip case with a nice painting of an ND2 around a lovely heavy, textured card box. Inside the model comes in a display case which is actually pretty good and more than good enough to use if you want static display. However, I've criticized British outline companies for excessive box size and this is guilty too. OK you get the model in a nice display case so the box will be big, but I'd probably prefer to lose the case and have a sensible size box. On the other hand it is an incredibly secure option.

 

The cabs are crazily detailed, all painted, with separately fitted control desk handles and stuff and a nicely done driver figure in one end. The engine room is also represented with a Sulzer engine visible through the ER windows. The model has working fans, exhaust smoke, sound and fancy lighting. I have zero interest in that stuff, but it was the best option available for the model when I looked (I got a great deal from a seller in HK) so c'est la vie.

 

The alternative is Bachmann, I'll also try and dig out the Bachmann, their model is also superbly done. Is the CM better? Yes, in my view. Is it worth the extra? The Bachmann can be found for about half the price of the CM if you look around and frankly the differences really aren't that great. The Bachmann is also well done with excellent detail and on a layout I suspect few would notice a difference. I guess it is have a look and you pays your money and makes your choice. 

 

 

That is certainly an impressive looking model. I should imagine that the running qualities are on a par with the inish and level of detail.

[jjb1970]

44 minutes ago, Erichill16 said:

Do you know what the red contraption is on the cab side, is it some kind of tablet exchange device?

The front cab windows are very Swiss looking.

 

Yes, as far as I know it's a token catcher, though I am no expert. By the time I went to China the routes I travelled used modern multi-aspect signalling systems and nowadays their version of ETCS seems to be taking over.

[jjb1970]

44 minutes ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

That is certainly an impressive looking model. I should imagine that the running qualities are on a par with the inish and level of detail.

 

Yes, when I have played on Kato unitrack it's a very smooth and quiet runner. 

[McC]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

 

Yes, when I have played on Kato unitrack it's a very smooth and quiet runner. 

 

Out of interest what is the price? 

[jjb1970]

4 minutes ago, McC said:

 

Out of interest what is the price? 

 

For this, about a year ago, I paid S$520 + S$50 shipping, which at todays rate is about £330, but that was a good price. Other sellers were advertising the non sound/DCC version for more, and looking around today the price seems to be S$600 - S$800 (£346 - £460) for non-DCC and DCC sound respectively, depending on seller. So not cheap, but quite similar to a lot of HO European releases.

 

Something which may seem very counter-intuitive given how many still view China is that Chinese outline models are not cheap. They're pretty similar to European HO I guess, and can go higher. Standards are extremely high but I think the real killer is production numbers. Although the hobby has been growing fast it's still a small niche and production numbers seem low compared to other markets.