Tactile and high quality DCC controller other than ZTC?

[Lacathedrale]

I deal with computers and development all day, every day - I'm not interested in that being part of my pastimes also, so while I was an early adopter of DCC I want my next layout to be as tactile as possible. I'm thinking: Gaugemaster Dual, H&M Duette, etc. and using signals to route power between the tracks and relevant controller. 

 

However, it has been highlighted to me that this is going to add considerable wiring complexity that DCC can avoid entirely. The only problem is, every DCC controller I've tried is like a 90's VCR controller with or without ZX spectrum rubberised buttons, a bright blue LED backlit screen, giant curvy plastic housing, etc.

 

I would prefer something wired, with two controllers. I would prefer not to have to sod around with PC connectivity.

 

Before I write it off DCC entirely, are there any suggestions? I've tried Prodigy/Gaugemaster and a Roco Maus with Digikeijs DR5000. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[two tone green]

ESU ECoS

[Ron Ron Ron]

……or ESU CabControl

 

 

 

.

[Nigelcliffe]

One low cost option is to connect the Gaugemaster DC or Duette to the two "jump ports" on a Digitrax Zephyr.   Thus your DC controller sets the speed and direction of the loco.   There are two jump ports, so two DC throttles.  There are several limitations to this, but it is what the jump port connection is intended to do.  
The Zephyr itself may also meet the tactile requirements for the speed and direction knob, and one can use two Zephyr's side-by-side (one as command station, one set as a throttle/booster linked to the first one).   

 

A really low cost option, would be to interface potentiometer with big metal handle, and a direction switch onto a DCC++EX system.  But that's a DIY electronics and software project.  

 

The ZTC may have battleship metal levers, but its internals have a number of bugs and problems.   I recently hooked one up as a throttle to a Roco Z21 system, trivially simple to do, but having done so I'm not convinced its massively better to use than other devices - several of its controls end up fighting the setup of sound decoders.  

There are other devices which I'd rate as having good feel, such as the Uhlenbrock Daisy II and the TCS UWT-50.  But the presence of push-buttons on them may rule them out.  

[WIMorrison]

Perhaps you could expand on your meaning of the word 'tactile'. Many of the controllers describe the rubberised buttons you dont like as 'tactile' and TBH it is difficult to avoid buttons in DCC when you have accessories to control, plus many locos have sound which are activated generally by buttons.

 

There are some controllers, as mentioned by others, that have rotary 'speed control' with buttons to access the various functions and I find the Roco Multimaus very tactile - using my definition of tactile being nice to touch and portable, but again perhaps not what you want, plus you need a command station that it can connect into (there is a wired and wireless version)

 

 

 

Then you get command stations like the Digitrax DCS52 Zephyr - which given your ZTC heritage you may consider as being tactile.

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

 

Proto Throttle.

Many US operators swear by them.

Unfortunately not available in the UK.

 

 

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[meil]

The MERG controller:

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Proto Throttle.

Many US operators swear by them.

Unfortunately not available in the UK.

Not available because it's not legal here, is the problem, due to the radio frequency it uses AFAIK.

As it replicates a US diesel's control stand I'm not surprised it's popular, if costly.

[Andymsa]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

Proto Throttle.

Many US operators swear by them.

Unfortunately not available in the UK.

 

 

.

 

 

 

it reminds me of those house brick mobile phones of the 70/80s 😁

[two tone green]

50 minutes ago, Andymsa said:

it reminds me of those house brick mobile phones of the 70/80s 😁

Fun to use I expect. 

[RobinofLoxley]

5 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

Proto Throttle.

Many US operators swear by them.

Unfortunately not available in the UK.

 

 

.

 

 

 

Ron, what is that square thing top centre?

[Lacathedrale]

Loco address and time? 

 

All of these look pretty much how I expected them to look, thank you all! 

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Ron, what is that square thing top centre?

 

The oblong screen above the  "8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 IDLE"   ?

 

That looks like a small LCD screen.

 

.

[Crosland]

3 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

The oblong screen above the  "8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 IDLE"   ?

 

That looks like a small LCD screen.

 

.

Entering the address must be fun.

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

13 minutes ago, Crosland said:

Entering the address must be fun.

 

 

Goodness knows how it all works, but American users rave about this throttle.

I can see the appeal of looking a bit like a prototypical control stand (if you squint), but it doesn't rock my boat.

It's not cheap either.

 

 

.

[fulton]

10 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Not available because it's not legal here, is the problem, due to the radio frequency it uses AFAIK.

As it replicates a US diesel's control stand I'm not surprised it's popular, if costly.

I think the manufactures said it was not a problem with radio frequency, but the cost of testing and approval for UK and European markets, potential sales would not recover these costs. 

[TWG]

I suggest that you look at the Uhlenbrock Intellibox 2.  This has two knob controllers in a tastefully designed box with a restrained display and pushbuttons with a quality feel.  It is admittedly expensive (made in Germany) but is a very capable device.  Mine has been totally reliable over 11 years and I would not swap it for anything else (except possibly a Z21).  There is a new improved version called Intellibox 2neo.  Available in Britain from DCC Train Automation in Somerset, who according to the Uhlenbrock website are the new official importers.

[Nigelcliffe]

42 minutes ago, TWG said:

I suggest that you look at the Uhlenbrock Intellibox 2.  ......  Available in Britain from DCC Train Automation in Somerset, who according to the Uhlenbrock website are the new official importers.

 

If DCC Train Automation are now official importers, that's a good change.   The loss of an official UK agent made support for Uhlenbrock stuff less than ideal a few years ago.  

 

(I've mixed views about the usability of the Intellibox, but no doubts on build quality.  I like several other Uhlenbrock items, going back many years.   As with any device, careful consideration of whether the operation fits your personal needs is required before purchase.   )

[RobinofLoxley]

On 14/07/2022 at 11:49, meil said:

The MERG controller:

 

 

Is that a special version for left handed folk

[meil]

2 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Is that a special version for left handed folk

No it's meant to be like that so your right hand is free to do other stuff.

[Lacathedrale]

I'm sure they're very usable, but this looks like a Mattel toy from the 1980s:

 

 

 

[JST]

I must be getting old and lazy but the idea of having to remember loco addresses or function button numbers horrifies me!

I am therefore hooked on the Z21. 😁

[Lacathedrale]

I had a Roco WLANmaus and I found the wireless annoying to deal with, although I was using a Digikeijs DR5000 which seems to be of many talents but master of none which probably didn't help. 

 

[WIMorrison]

Just now, Lacathedrale said:

I had a Roco WLANmaus and I found the wireless annoying to deal with, although I was using a Digikeijs DR5000 which seems to be of many talents but master of none which probably didn't help. 

 

I don’t understand what you mean by ‘wireless annoying to deal with’. Once the connections details have been entered it should be a totally transparent connection that you never need to look at again. 
 

I entered my connection details about 7 years ago and haven’t looked at them since, though I mostly now use a wired Maus (mainly because I don’t lose it 😀 )

[Harlequin]

The two aspects of this query only overlap slightly.

 

There's the desire for chunky controls in a panel and the desire for locos to be "selected" depending on the route and signalling that has been set.

 

They are both reasonable requests and you would hope that someone, somewhere has solved them both but maybe not together.

 

DCC as a control protocol is great but it's really a technical layer and most of the details shouldn't be exposed in the UI for everyday operations. (And I agree that the little rubbery buttons on so many controllers really are horrible.) For you William, I am picturing knurled brass knobs, big brass push buttons and steel lever switches...) Some of the solutions shown in this thread do have nice chunky controls but they still expose a lot of the DCC nitty-gritty.

 

That's where the two desires overlap because a lot of that remaining DCC detail could be hidden by something that allows a DCC-equipped loco to be driven only as a result of correct route and signal setting and interlocking.

 

If you were willing to build the control panels, connect them up to a dedicated computer with good IO connections and a DCC interface, like a Raspberry Pi with a Pi-Sprog, and then hold your nose and write the necessary routing/signalling/interlocking code I think you could create exactly the system you're looking for. Once it's done you should hopefully be able to ignore the computer and DCC implementation behind the simple controls.

 

Edit: Such a system could have some nice extra features built-in such as insisting that you wait for the guard to give the right-away before you can drive: E.g. wait for a random delay after the route has been set, then play the guard's whistle on sound-equipped locos, or from the control computer itself, before allowing the loco to be driven.

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Harlequin