60's Fish Trains and their make up

[Possy92]

Hi all,

 

There was a topic on here BC (Before Crash) with a similar title to the one above, and as interesting as it is, doesn't show any 60s fish trains, neither before the crash, and certainly not after!)

 

 

Blood and custard also has a bit of info, but nothing of what I'm looking for: https://www.bloodandcustard.net/bluespot.html

 

I'm looking at building a representation of a fish train towards the mid 60s, when fish traffic was in heavy decline. I've got one of the Larkin books, and although great for prototype pics, doesn't have any trains, rather individual wagons.

 

I'm not too fussed on my trains origin, Aberdeen, Hull, Grimsby Fleetwood etc, but the latter would be better, but happy to compromise - I just want a representation of a fish train to run! Are there any books on fish trains? or anyone know a book with a good section on them?

 

I'm assuming that the diagram 801 and 800 were the bulk of the wagons by then? with a few EX-LNER stragglers converted to the insulated type, plus the Conflat As with AF containers on them. (I realise that Fleetwood, if they did still move fish by rail in the 60s, is the M region, but Larkins Book has an 800/801 diagram van with E prefix at Preston. I realise that speed was the most important factor with Fish traffic, and regular vans were sometimes used to bulk out the train, but with rapid decline of fish on the rails, and less of them, that must have freed up more dedicated stock to run it.?) 

 

Apologies if I'm being vague, I'm just a bit lost!

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

 

[John Isherwood]

58 minutes ago, Possy92 said:

Hi all,

 

There was a topic on here BC (Before Crash) with a similar title to the one above, and as interesting as it is, doesn't show any 60s fish trains, neither before the crash, and certainly not after!)

 

 

Blood and custard also has a bit of info, but nothing of what I'm looking for: https://www.bloodandcustard.net/bluespot.html

 

I'm looking at building a representation of a fish train towards the mid 60s, when fish traffic was in heavy decline. I've got one of the Larkin books, and although great for prototype pics, doesn't have any trains, rather individual wagons.

 

I'm not too fussed on my trains origin, Aberdeen, Hull, Grimsby Fleetwood etc, but the latter would be better, but happy to compromise - I just want a representation of a fish train to run! Are there any books on fish trains? or anyone know a book with a good section on them?

 

I'm assuming that the diagram 801 and 800 were the bulk of the wagons by then? with a few EX-LNER stragglers converted to the insulated type, plus the Conflat As with AF containers on them. (I realise that Fleetwood, if they did still move fish by rail in the 60s, is the M region, but Larkins Book has an 800/801 diagram van with E prefix at Preston. I realise that speed was the most important factor with Fish traffic, and regular vans were sometimes used to bulk out the train, but with rapid decline of fish on the rails, and less of them, that must have freed up more dedicated stock to run it.?) 

 

Apologies if I'm being vague, I'm just a bit lost!

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

 

 

If the vehicle in question has a number in the E87xxx srries, it is an NPCCS vehicle, not a wagon.

 

All of these BR fish vans were given ER prefixes, regardless of the operating region.

 

CJI.

[Aire Head]

While not having any images to hand I always recall when looking at them seeing regular Merchandise vans mixed in amongst the insulated vans. 

[John Isherwood]

49 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

While not having any images to hand I always recall when looking at them seeing regular Merchandise vans mixed in amongst the insulated vans. 

 

Most LMS and LNER fish vans were very difficult to distinguish from ordinary merchandise vans at any distance.

 

In BR times, uninsulated fish vans were painted in the same bauxite livery as merchandise vans; only insulated vans were painted white or ice blue.

 

Merchandise vans were not supposed to be used for fish traffic, as the structure would become impregnated with the pungent odour of fish.

 

CJI.

Edited July 10, 2022 by cctransuk

[MyRule1]

A few years ago there was a Bookazine series called Moving the Goods, edition 9 was devoted to Foodstuffs and there was a chapter on Fish Traffic. It's still available as a download through Pocketmags.

 

There's always the Birds Eye livered containers that ran from Lowestoft but there the fish was frozen.

[John Isherwood]

2 minutes ago, MyRule1 said:

A few years ago there was a Bookazine series called Moving the Goods, edition 9 was devoted to Foodstuffs and there was a chapter on Fish Traffic. It's still available as a download through Pocketmags.

 

There's always the Birds Eye livered containers that ran from Lowestoft but there the fish was frozen.

 

But the BE containers are a fiction - both the containers and the wagon are seriously under-length for what they are supposed to represent.

 

CJI.

[MyRule1]

9 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

But the BE containers are a fiction - both the containers and the wagon are seriously under-length for what they are supposed to represent.

 

CJI.

I take you aren't saying these are fictional

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=birds+eye+train+Lowestoft&client=firefox-b-m&sxsrf=ALiCzsa2OzCIYitlo5_cuwFSBKEq2sLAYw:1657481055642&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjomqyMhu_4AhUahFwKHYfNALwQ_AUIBygC&biw=1280&bih=672#imgrc=_vDUD0BKEqN5FM

 

I made a mistake the location was Great Yarmouth not Lowestoft.

[John Isherwood]

23 minutes ago, MyRule1 said:

I take you aren't saying these are fictional

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=birds+eye+train+Lowestoft&client=firefox-b-m&sxsrf=ALiCzsa2OzCIYitlo5_cuwFSBKEq2sLAYw:1657481055642&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjomqyMhu_4AhUahFwKHYfNALwQ_AUIBygC&biw=1280&bih=672#imgrc=_vDUD0BKEqN5FM

 

I made a mistake the location was Great Yarmouth not Lowestoft.

 

They are fictional - the Birds Eye containers were AFP containers which are longer than Bachmann's model of an AF type. Bachmann's model is correct in BR livery.

 

In the same way, Birds Eye containers were loaded on CONFLAT B wagons, which were longer than Bachmann's CONFLAT A model.

 

I supply transfers for both Birds Eye and BR AFP correct length containers and CONFLAT B wagons, plus BR transfers for AF containers and CONFLAT A wagons.

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[Marshall5]

Currently on Ebay, an image of 42765 at Farington Curve Jc. on a fish train ex Fleetwood in 1964.

 

[Caley739]

7 minutes ago, Marshall5 said:

Currently on Ebay, an image of 42765 at Farington Curve Jc. on a fish train ex Fleetwood in 196

These look like banana vans rather than fish vans

[Fat Controller]

4 minutes ago, Caley739 said:

These look like banana vans rather than fish vans

Agreed; the presence of the 'third hinge' and locking bar is a dead give-away.

[The Stationmaster]

And it is not lamped as Fish Train

[dunwurken]

You should have been standing on platform 1 at Edinburgh Waverley when an Aberdeen fish train stopped for crew change etc. before heading south.  Nearly always an ex LNER Pacific but as to the make up of the train I can only recall scruffy white wagons and one hell of a stink.  Always thought half the fish must be rotten before it left Edinburgh! 

Malcolm

[Marshall5]

2 hours ago, Caley739 said:

These look like banana vans rather than fish vans

I should have looked closer rather than relying on the Ebay caption.  Most likely bananas from Preston Docks.

Ray.

[Possy92]

Thanks all for your help/discussions, it sounds like my hunch was correct with the fish vans being the bulk of the train at least!

 

 

20 hours ago, MyRule1 said:

A few years ago there was a Bookazine series called Moving the Goods, edition 9 was devoted to Foodstuffs and there was a chapter on Fish Traffic. It's still available as a download through Pocketmags.

 

There's always the Birds Eye livered containers that ran from Lowestoft but there the fish was frozen.

I bought this Bookazine - some useful information, mostly this half pic below in 1961 - which appears to have some normal vans, specifically, at least  towards the back, I think, LMS 12t Van, The front of this train (not pictured here) has mostly the diagram 800/801, plus a conflat with an AF container. there seems to be a lot of the converted LNER types and a at least one (next to the LMS van) that hasn't been.

 

 

 

[Rail-Online]

On 11/07/2022 at 11:53, dunwurken said:

You should have been standing on platform 1 at Edinburgh Waverley when an Aberdeen fish train stopped for crew change etc. before heading south.  Nearly always an ex LNER Pacific but as to the make up of the train I can only recall scruffy white wagons and one hell of a stink.  Always thought half the fish must be rotten before it left Edinburgh! 

Malcolm

I have always been told that the smell is not from the fish, it is from the polluted water running off them........

 

Tony