Brighton Trafalgar - An Edwardian LB&SCR Terminus

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

Layout

Well, foam-tack glue has been applied to track and is currently weighted down for the first stage of the throat. Fingers and toes crossed for me please, gents! 

 

Should I include my stock building in this thread, or in my workbench thread? I thought here would be good but I'm wondering if it's misplaced? 

 

 

Here, so recluses like me don't miss it.

[Lacathedrale]

Fair play!

 

Billinton 54' Five Compartment Brake Third w/ Luggage (D74A)

 

 

The re-chop and shut of another brake end onto the rest of this unit has gone quite well, although still in need of a fair bit of fettling. The D74A's were quite numerous and had various permutations of lighting, panel and ducket arrangements. This model is being built to depict one of the two 1907-built, five-panel guard section, electrically-lit, F-type ducket (i.e. rear lookouts instead of side duckets) carriages. Annoyingly, I have cut the windows out of the wrong panel - they should be on the outer edges! 

 

The carriage that's already primed I erroneously referred to as a D139 - it is infact a D193, a SEVEN compartment brake third built in 1912 - so will be in all-over umber and also lit electrically. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Results are in for yesterday's work - looks OK to me! 

 

[St Enodoc]

9 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Results are in for yesterday's work - looks OK to me! 

 

Are the rails gapped in all the right places, William?

[Lacathedrale]

I have decided to go with my gut on this one and go with DCC. The power-routed DC is still a lovely solution , but it is just ever so much more work than DCC:

• Since my turnouts are Peco Bullhead, the vee rails are already jumpered to correct outer stock rail - the only isolated part is the very tip, which is what the dropper energises. As it is, I can simply lay them - not even a need for isolated rail joiners.  In order to make them compatible with DC power-routing I would need to somehow revert them to normal switched-frog turnouts by cutting and shutting the jumpers.
• If I’m not using power-routing turnouts, I can run trains as soon as the track is laid, whereas with power-routed DC I would need to either have an intermediate stage with all the routes live, or have the lever frame and point motors installed. 
• I would need to use insulated rail joiners for every turnout frog.
• The S4S Lever Frame I’m hoping to use has built-in support for SPDT switches which can handle the tip feed if neccessary, but is not compatible with DPDT switches so a supplemental, localised switch would also be required per turnout.
• All of my locomotives are modern issue, and DCC- and DCC Sound- compatible so very easy to install/revert.

 

Overall as you can see, power-routed DC using the Peco Bullhead range will involve modifying every turnout, using insulated rail joiners everywhere, adding an intermediate stage of shorted feeds for testing, and the use of additional switching for both signals and turnouts. It was a lovely thought experiment, but I think I’m going to stick with my lever frames being wholly mechanical, rather than providing power routing.

 

54' Billintons

I’ve wafted some primer over the 48’ Composite and the 54’ Brake Third Luggage and put them alongside the more-finished plain 54’ Brake Third and I think while there’s still a good deal of work to do on all of them, not least the roofs (I tried the hot water method with 0.4mm styrene and it failed completely - brass sheet on order), they look passable. Particularly if you squint.

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[burgundy]

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

 

54' Billintons

I’ve wafted some primer over the 48’ Composite and the 54’ Brake Third Luggage and put them alongside the more-finished plain 54’ Brake Third and I think while there’s still a good deal of work to do on all of them, not least the roofs (I tried the hot water method with 0.4mm styrene and it failed completely - brass sheet on order), they look passable. Particularly if you squint.

Nice to see some Clerestories put to good use!

Can I suggest a simple way to put a curve into plasticard? Use a wine bottle - they seem to be just about the right diameter for Brighton carriage roofs. Dispose of the contents of the bottle in an environmentally friendly way and tape the card tightly around it.  Then boil a kettle and fill the bottle with the water. Leave it all to cool down of its own accord before removing the tape and you should end up with a nicely curved roof. 

Hope this helps

Best wishes 

Eric 

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, burgundy said:

Nice to see some Clerestories put to good use!

Can I suggest a simple way to put a curve into plasticard? Use a wine bottle - they seem to be just about the right diameter for Brighton carriage roofs. Dispose of the contents of the bottle in an environmentally friendly way and tape the card tightly around it.  Then boil a kettle and fill the bottle with the water. Leave it all to cool down of its own accord before removing the tape and you should end up with a nicely curved roof. 

Hope this helps

Best wishes 

Eric 

 

Not masking tape as as soon as the heat hits it, the plastic falls off.  

[Caley Jim]

41 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Not masking tape as as soon as the heat hits it, the plastic falls off.  

I've done it using Sellotape, with each strip generously overlapping the last.

 

Jim

[Lacathedrale]

I'd not thought of sellotape! I was using elastic bands with a layer of brass sheet to avoid creases, so not a bad idea at all. I'll cancel my brass sheet order and try again with some 0.25mm sheet (I was using 0.4mm and I think that was just too thick). Regarding the wine bottle idea I was also struggling with the length - at 264mm the roofs are longer than the average wine bottle parallel section which ended up generating a kink. I guess worst-case scenario I can get a bit of 2.5" dia pipe from somewhere. 

 

A rather astute observation made by Peter Denny when he modified the Tri-ang Clerestories to a GCR prototype was that when it was all said and done it ended up being more work than scratch-building. I'm not sure if I'm at that point, but I do wonder if I should have just bought Branchlines kits instead, given the time versus cost balance of these little blighters. Oh well, these are at least 'mine'.

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

Layout Construction

I've got lots of Christmas-related chores to be getting on with at the moment so though I ostensibly have the day free I'm not sure I'll be able to progress much on the layout front beyond gluing in the reinforcing plates for the alignment pins and bolts.

 

Carriage Building

In happier news the D74A and D61 are slowly bending to my will:

 

 

This is the first time using Rust-o-leum grey primer and it's gone on well. I think Halfords is a better deal at £3 cheaper, but I was in B&Q and running short so thought I'd give it a bash. I was quite horrified to see 1" x 1/4" timber at a ridicolous price of £6/yd while I was there.

 

I've been trying to use Vallejo Plastic Putty for filling and it seems to be quite variable - it needs to go on very thinly and takes a long time to cure, otherwise you end up with 'bogies' when you sand it - which can end up pulling filler material from gaps below the surface area. I'm sure that I used a red body filler putty before - Bondo? Which dried very hard and was easily featherable. Any tips?

 

Either way there are a few more jobs to do - the end lookouts need to be cut out and the beading applied, as well as door hinges, buffers, coupling hooks and air pipes - but I think I'm over the hump on them, construction-wise. I probably need to add roof grab handles and steps but will do some research before making another c__k up of it.

 

One last thing before painting is to drill holes in the carriages for the long grab irons - does anyone know where/how to make a bending jig for them? @burgundy maybe? :)  

Edited December 15, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

The offset joiners here allow me to recess the traverser 100mm towards the rear when the layout is in linear mode, meaning more traverser roads are accessible without needing to shove the throat towards the front of the scenic board. Regular joiners are provided so that I can in future fit a corner section.

[richbrummitt]

On 15/12/2022 at 08:54, Lacathedrale said:

last thing before painting is to drill holes in the carriages for the long grab irons - does anyone know where/how to make a bending jig for them?

Wizard models and others sell one that - if memory serves - Bill Bedford has etched. However It is possible to make any one off bespoke size by marking the handrail spacing from the edge of a sheet, drill, insert bent wire and bend around the edge of the sheet. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by richbrummitt
Proper Noun

[t-b-g]

I make jigs for either drilling the holes (a strip of brass bent to an L shape with two holes drilled in it that hooks over either the top or the bottom of a carriage side) or for bending handrails, using various thicknesses of brass, with holes drilled and pins inserted where necessary.

 

It takes a few moments and ensures that they are all the same.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I make jigs for either drilling the holes (a strip of brass bent to an L shape with two holes drilled in it that hooks over either the top or the bottom of a carriage side) or for bending handrails, using various thicknesses of brass, with holes drilled and pins inserted where necessary.

 

It takes a few moments and ensures that they are all the same.

I do something similar with a piece of brass that has extra bits on the back that fit into the door light aperture. That serves as a template both for door handles and grab rails.

[Lacathedrale]

For the sake of £2.75 and having them all identical I'll just order the etch I think :) I did see the Balloon trailer as needed for a Brighton-Kemp Town/Dyke run with Boxhill - tempting, but £75! 

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

 I did see the Balloon trailer as needed for a Brighton-Kemp Town/Dyke run with Boxhill - tempting, but £75! 

Assembled? The kit is £65 new from Roxey.

[Lacathedrale]

12 hours ago, Nick C said:

Assembled? The kit is £65 new from Roxey.

 

...plus wheels. I think I'll restrain myself, and finish off the current three before I buy any more ( The brass for carriage roofs arrived, but the styrene hasn't - do I risk it?). Infact, I think there's a moratorium on buying or building any more stock at all until the layout is at least notionally running. 

 

I also managed to fit all but one of the dowel pairs for the boards. I still can't quite make out the issue with the traverser - either the deck is about 1/2mm too low, or the sides cut 1/2mm too tall, because when the outer sides are fitted, instead of providing a bearing surface - infact are interference fits and wedge the deck in place. 

 

Everything else fits perfectly, and seeing as I saw the same G&H traverser at ScaleForum with the outer sides planed down, that's the only solution I can think of. I may screw, rather than glue the ends though - incase something else comes to light and I'd rather not have to scrap the whole traverser if it's something else stupid.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

The 48' Composite, and two 54' brakes are basically complete save for painting and roofs now - and I think I have the perfect wine bottle to mould the roofline onto - but out of sellotape!  Before I get the airbrush going and get the first coat of umber on them, I thought I'd share this picture, which is (at the moment) what I'm going for:

 

 

I should highlight however, in a slightly less ambitious scale! 

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

I've been slowly working on the various carriages, and I think the Brake Third is done but for paint and roof:

 

 

I forgot to cut out the lookouts while the ends were in the flat so this was a bit hair raising, particularly since the beading was in place too - but it has all worked out OK in the end. Annoyingly, I did this with BOTH brake carriages! I also realised that I had forgotten to add the outer beading to the ends, so that's another eight fiddly strips to fit.

 

Somewhat bizarrely the three carriages I've chosen to build are ALL electrically lit - so any further carriages I build are going to have to be gas lit to redress the balance, I think.

 

Layout

On the layout I've managed to get all the pattern-maker dowels installed, the traverser ends planed down and fitted (it now slides very easily) and I've ordered some shelf brackets. The plan is to screw them to the wall, and screw some planks atop them so the boards have a bit of lateral movement before falling off their supports. Annoyingly, since I planned the layout and bought the boards I have had a new boiler fitted, which has pushed the layout about 6" to the left, which brings the arc of the up-and-over door very close indeed to the baseboards:

 

 

The left hand of the layout is going to be the station concourse and inside face of the station building, something like the below:

 

The concourse itself will easily clear, but I'm not sure that the building will without the layout being lowered quite a bit - and it must be high enough to fit bicycles underneath. Ah, fun times!

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

The left hand of the layout is going to be the station concourse and inside face of the station building, something like the below:

I am reminded of a conversation between a ticket collector at Charing Cross and a lady passenger, who had been advised to travel in the front portion of a train that would split en route. She enquired which end was the front? The T/C responded that if the adjacent end were the front, then when the driver opened the controller the train would be straight though W H Smith's and out into The Strand!

[Compound2632]

23 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I am reminded of a conversation between a ticket collector at Charing Cross and a lady passenger, who had been advised to travel in the front portion of a train that would split en route. She enquired which end was the front? 

 

A perfectly reasonable question from someone unfamiliar with railway operation. As far as she was concerned, the front end of the train could perfectly well be the end in front of her, while traipsing all along the platform would be like going round the back.

[Oldddudders]

11 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

A perfectly reasonable question from someone unfamiliar with railway operation. As far as she was concerned, the front end of the train could perfectly well be the end in front of her, while traipsing all along the platform would be like going round the back.

But surely, even to those who seldom patronise rail, the front of the train is where the driver sits? Ergo....

[t-b-g]

It gets confusing when you have a loco trapped at the buffer stop end of a terminus. That was the front but then becomes the back, except at Dorchester South where it might well still be the front.

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

It gets confusing when you have a loco trapped at the buffer stop end of a terminus. That was the front but then becomes the back, except at Dorchester South where it might well still be the front.

 

Likewise Killarney.

[ChrisN]

4 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I've been slowly working on the various carriages, and I think the Brake Third is done but for paint and roof:

 

 

I forgot to cut out the lookouts while the ends were in the flat so this was a bit hair raising, particularly since the beading was in place too - but it has all worked out OK in the end. Annoyingly, I did this with BOTH brake carriages! I also realised that I had forgotten to add the outer beading to the ends, so that's another eight fiddly strips to fit.

 

Somewhat bizarrely the three carriages I've chosen to build are ALL electrically lit - so any further carriages I build are going to have to be gas lit to redress the balance, I think.

 

Layout

On the layout I've managed to get all the pattern-maker dowels installed, the traverser ends planed down and fitted (it now slides very easily) and I've ordered some shelf brackets. The plan is to screw them to the wall, and screw some planks atop them so the boards have a bit of lateral movement before falling off their supports. Annoyingly, since I planned the layout and bought the boards I have had a new boiler fitted, which has pushed the layout about 6" to the left, which brings the arc of the up-and-over door very close indeed to the baseboards:

 

 

The left hand of the layout is going to be the station concourse and inside face of the station building, something like the below:

 

The concourse itself will easily clear, but I'm not sure that the building will without the layout being lowered quite a bit - and it must be high enough to fit bicycles underneath. Ah, fun times!

 

Could you make the building removeable, so it would not be in the way when you open the door?