Brighton Trafalgar - An Edwardian LB&SCR Terminus

[TJ52]

You are probably all right, but I do love a retaining wall for an urban layout!

 

Terry

[NHY 581]

Just popped into this thread and can see I need to go back to page 1. 

 

Lovely stuff. 

 

Rob. 

[nest]

Depends on where you are…

If in London then a nice retaining wall but if down by the coast of Sussex, chalk! Chalk is probably more visually interesting…

Coming into Brighton there is both of course.

 

[Matloughe]

13 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Was there not once a chalk knoll just outside Brighton station? Is there not a chalk cliff even now going round to "West Coastway"? ISTR the Civils contracting with someone to do some concrete spraying to stabilise it. The Downs are chalk and so its exposure is wholly authentic for a Brighton terminus, but it doesn't support much vegetation, hence in recent decades geotechie stuff in the cuttings through the Downs.  

Yes you're right.
I believe there is a drawing of the opening of the line to Shoreham in the 1840's/1850's and where Brighton MPD would have been later built is a large chalk mound and the line disappearing away towards the West Coastway. I think it also shows the roof of the first Brighton station as well.

I have found a similar picture online here. I'm sure some artistic license has been had with the rolling stock liveries and potential locomotives themselves.

I support the chalk option, maybe with some outcroppings of small scrub that has taken hold. It'll contrast against Improved Engine Green & Umber brilliantly, and will set the scene location nicely.

Kind Regards,

Gary

[Lacathedrale]

I'm considering the exit from the layout in the context of the embankment. I'm leaning towards chalk - but I'm sure (!) that by the 1900's the chalk wall at Brighton was concreted up? I'm sure I can picture an IEG loco with the concrete in situ behind it.

 

Speaking of that spot, here's my equivalent but this time with an A1 and an E2:

 

 

Easy to forget how small the Terrier is! This is a detailed Triang E2 body on a modern chinese 0-6-0T chassis. The running qualities aren't great but have improved with a good clean and I'm sure will improve with a DCC chip and stayalive caps.  It is due to be given the Marsh goods livery of black with double red lining - and will be used to shunt empty carriage stock and potentially to relieve Gypsy Hill from station pilot duties.

[nest]

There is of course also this sort of thing just outside Brighton near Seven Dials where the line to Hove comes out of the short tunnel. The mixture of chalk with some greenery could be interesting if a little out of period. 

 

From Google 

 

Nestor 

[Matloughe]

What chassis is your E2 sitting on?

 

Ironically I am taking my own E2 out for a walk with a Terrier at the club tonight and am interested about a potential upgrade.

 

Kind Regards,

Gary

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

I'm considering the exit from the layout in the context of the embankment. I'm leaning towards chalk - but I'm sure (!) that by the 1900's the chalk wall at Brighton was concreted up?

As I said earlier, in the late '80s the Civil Engineer engaged a firm, I think called Can, to spray concrete on that wall. The firm were invited to do a presentation to all sorts of people, including non-engineers like me, of their methods and proposals. No doubt all sorts of prep was needed before the 'nozzleman' (a term they used) could direct his 'hose'. I'm not sure this work would have been needed if concrete had been applied 80 years before, and I'm quite sure sprayed concrete is a relatively modern technique, as I think is pumped concrete, which no doubt is part of the process. 

[Lacathedrale]

It certainly doesn't LOOK like Chalk in this photo of Lucerne:

 

Dave Searle Collection

 

But I think its' a fairly moot point - scrub and chalk seems to win out.

 

I don't THINK I have enough depth to put a street scene ontop, but this would be nice:

 

Dave Searle Collection

 

Maybe some forced perspective with N gauge buildings, or flats against the backscene? Just a thought, really.

 

@Matloughe - not sure on the chassis, I bought it already swapped. I'll have to get it apart in due course for a decoder installation when I switch over to DCC so I'll dig deeper. I think it's a generic chassis used under a Thomas/Jinty/Pannier/etc.

 

[phil_sutters]

The vegetation in the U1 photo looks like it was growing on chalk rather than concrete. The Terrier is just there to look pretty.

 

[phil_sutters]

On 28/10/2023 at 20:43, phil_sutters said:

Ah but that's cheating. Have you noticed that if you look at buildings in Streetview, from different directions you sometimes get photos taken at different times, with different details .

My one of London Road goes further downhill - it has a skip in it!

Finally - no vans - no skips! On my way to the Brighton MRC show.

[phil_sutters]

There are further views of London Road Station in my Brighton & Hove stations album - 

 

[Lacathedrale]

On 04/11/2023 at 08:47, phil_sutters said:

The vegetation in the U1 photo looks like it was growing on chalk rather than concrete. The Terrier is just there to look pretty.

 

 

This is going to sound silly, but what's that building built into the slope behind the West Coastway lines? That might be a very interesting thing to include to narrow the aperature around the layout exit?

 

@phil_sutters thank you for that picture - the more I consider it, the more I think it might be a better shout. I will need to mock it up - I make the main building about 90' wide so there's a little breathing room around it for the covered ways to wrap around. Not sure I'll be able to stretch to those chimneys, though!

[definate maybe]

I see from other threads that this project as stalled.

can I ask why?

it appears there has been a long running dilemma on this topic of wanting to get things moving quickly against an ideal to kitbash, modify and scratch build everything.

if this ‘stall’ has anything to do with this conflict, aren’t the same issues going to affect the new project? I can’t see you settling for 100% RTR for example.

I ask for two reasons.

firstly, I see similarities with my own modelling journey. Mine are a lot less intricate than yours but have the availability of 00 against the ‘model in the landscape’ of N. The should I, shouldn’t I has led to many false starts.

secondly, the ideas (I include your last? NSE era layout as well) always appear to show so much interest and promise but do not progress very far. 

On a selfish note, I always check in to see if there is any news on this topic so would love to see it continue.

rather than be drawn in another direction, it would seem that buying initially  RTR stock may enable things to progress without anything more radical.

i appreciate I know nothing about you so I apologise if I have overstepped the mark with my comments. I have been considering whether to comment but thought it may prove thought provoking if nothing else.

Take care

mark.

 

 

[Compound2632]

33 minutes ago, definate maybe said:

I see from other threads that this project as stalled.

can I ask why?

 

I have a suspicion that parenthood may be a factor!

[Lacathedrale]

Well, yes and no - parenthood means I have limited time and energy - and it seems like all the easy wins on this project are over and done with and now it's the same as any other large(ish) layout! I have ~6 locos to buy chips for and fit, dozens of S&W couplings to fabricate and fit (even if just on outer ends of rakes). and the retrofitting of under-baseboard uncoupling magnets I was hoping to avoid altogether. If it's scenics then I have a ginormous station building and ~5' of wall/buildings to design and build, etc. etc. - there just don't really feel like any small jobs.

 

The layout is absolutely not going anywhere, and my mojo will return!

[Schooner]

10 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

there just don't really feel like any small jobs.

 

Then break them down further :)

 

 

It really is that simp-

 

 

 

 

My answer to the question in your other thread is '25% total length for a cassette/fiddle stick at either end with something exchange/shunty in the middle'...but honestly I don't think a new project will provide any solutions, and risks compounding problems. Chip away at it when things are sub-optimal, and you'll be in a much stronger position when time and mojo return...in 25 years...!

[Lacathedrale]

Well, I cleared the various pencils, tape measures and detritus that accumulate on a layout while it's moribund because I figure I should at least try to get a reasonable understanding of what is required.

 

Putting aside scenics (once again), an obvious easy win is to trawl through my electronics bins and inventory my current DCC chip collection and purchase what is required, at least 2x Next18 chips (terriers), 2x 21-pin chips (atlantics), 1x hardwired (e2) to get all the locos moving.

 

I think the thing with the biggest potential blast radius is couplings but in the interest of keeping the objectives small, I'm going to let that smoulder on in the background. EDIT: While I do some testing, can anyone suggest ways to neatly slice through sleepers to fit magnets in the roadbed? Any time I've used a scalpel it's just forced the plastic sleeper base off the rail instead of cutting through.

Edited February 6 by Lacathedrale

[Oldddudders]

8 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

While I do some testing, can anyone suggest ways to neatly slice through sleepers to fit magnets in the roadbed? Any time I've used a scalpel it's just forced the plastic sleeper base off the rail instead of cutting through.

Slitting disc in a Dremel clone? It cuts rail and sleeper cleanly. Wear eye-protection, though!

[Nick C]

22 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

can anyone suggest ways to neatly slice through sleepers to fit magnets in the roadbed? Any time I've used a scalpel it's just forced the plastic sleeper base off the rail instead of cutting through.

Very sharp scalpel blade, and cut rather then chop - i.e. multiple gentle strokes of the blade rather then trying to force it through in one go?

[Caley Jim]

X-acto razor saw is another option. 

 

Jim 

[Lacathedrale]

Right, well it turns out I already have two 21-pin decoders (For H1/H2) and an 8 pin with a pigtail (for the E2) - so I just ordered a pair of cheapo Next18's for the Terriers and in theory they should all be ready to fit in short order.

 

[Andy_C]

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Slitting disc in a Dremel clone?

This - works nicely with code 55 N Gauge track. Well worth a practice on a spare bit of track 1st, tho? Another thought is have you tried the magnets under the track? The N Gauge Dapol ones work ok done this way. Just a suggestion...

Edited February 6 by Andy_C

[Lacathedrale]

I'd be nervous about burning the plastic with a dremel - luckily I'm staring at a test track piece I did so I can investigate on that first!

[richbrummitt]

A saw rather than a knife would be my recommendation. Or avoidance tactics and hide the magnets in a barrow crossing.