SR 8 Plank Wagons - 00 Gauge

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

As a matter of interest, was there any location on the Southern where end-unloading was necessary?

I'm wondering if the answer's "No - BUT the RCH insisted on a certain percentage of Common User coal wagons being fitted with end doors.". Pure supposition as I've no idea what influence the RCH had on any of the Railways' wagon fleets : in theory, any of the Companies could have built no 'ordinary' wagons at all and just relied on Common Users !!?!.

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Some 20-ton wagons (GWR, LNWR of which I am aware, probably others) were built with doors at both ends, so possibly the issue was recognised in some quarters.

 

A 20 ton wagon would be too big for the usual wagon turntables, which could accommodate a maximum wheelbase of 9 ' 6" (being designed for handling wagons of 9' 0" wheelbase with comfort). So a door at each end saved embarrasment, I suppose. But they would be no good at those tippers that were accessed by a wagon turntable in a line parallel to the quayside:

 

Kings Lynn:

 

 

[Embedded link to NRM DY 2802.] 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Compound2632
sp.

[petethemole]

Loading a coal barge at Southampton, probably early 20th century.   Any information on the wagon?

[Dunsignalling]

The style, size, and position of the number matches the practices of Stephenson Clarke.

 

John

[Compound2632]

36 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The style, size, and position of the number matches the practices of Stephenson Clarke.

 

And the construction of the wagon, too.

[Sitham Yard]

3 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I'm wondering if the answer's "No - BUT the RCH insisted on a certain percentage of Common User coal wagons being fitted with end doors.". Pure supposition as I've no idea what influence the RCH had on any of the Railways' wagon fleets : in theory, any of the Companies could have built no 'ordinary' wagons at all and just relied on Common Users !!?!.

I believe the four companies were required to provide wagons for the common user mineral wagon pool in proportion to the traffic handled by each company (or possibly originating on each company) and therefore the SR had to make their contribution to that pool, all new wagons having end doors.   

 

I am thinking that there must have been many industrial sites with tipping facilities though some would be side tippers. I have a vague idea that some end tippers may have been able to tip either way depending on which end the door was. Can anyone confirm please?

Andrew 

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

IPure supposition as I've no idea what influence the RCH had on any of the Railways' wagon fleets

 

Remember that in this respect the RCH wasn't an independent organisation trying to impose its will on the railway companies but rather more like a trade association where the companies (represented by their senior officers) got together to decide common policy. So it's four General Managers or whatever sitting round a table.

 

EDIT: probably the Goods Managers' Conference, minutes in the RAIL 1081 series at The National Archives:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/h/C102460.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Compound2632

[Fat Controller]

15 hours ago, Sitham Yard said:

I believe the four companies were required to provide wagons for the common user mineral wagon pool in proportion to the traffic handled by each company (or possibly originating on each company) and therefore the SR had to make their contribution to that pool, all new wagons having end doors.   

 

I am thinking that there must have been many industrial sites with tipping facilities though some would be side tippers. I have a vague idea that some end tippers may have been able to tip either way depending on which end the door was. Can anyone confirm please?

Andrew 

Swansea Corporation had a small fleet of 20t Minerals with end-doors at both ends, built to serve Tir-John power station. Curiously, they didn't possess side doors. This meant that they weren't meant to be used for domestic fuel; I have seen photos of an example being so used, with end doors supported by sleepers on end. 

When built, they had two-piece sliding roofs.

There were also a few 20-tonners built with end, side and bottom doors.

[Tappa]

41 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Swansea Corporation had a small fleet of 20t Minerals with end-doors at both ends, built to serve Tir-John power station. Curiously, they didn't possess side doors. This meant that they weren't meant to be used for domestic fuel; I have seen photos of an example being so used, with end doors supported by sleepers on end. 

When built, they had two-piece sliding roofs.

There were also a few 20-tonners built with end, side and bottom doors.

I’ve modelled one of these using two Airfix/Dapol mineral bodies. Lot of work sanding and filling the sides, with rivet detail then added back

[Fat Controller]

6 minutes ago, Tappa said:

I’ve modelled one of these using two Airfix/Dapol mineral bodies. Lot of work sanding and filling the sides, with rivet detail then added back

Nice work. I wonder why they originally had roofs? They lasted quite late- I've seen photos of them from the early 1970s

[Mark Saunders]

2 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Nice work. I wonder why they originally had roofs? They lasted quite late- I've seen photos of them from the early 1970s

I would suspect for pulverised coal as originally the idea was to do this at the colliery rather than the power station. There were triple silo pressure discharge wagons for this traffic in South Wales and County Durham.

[Tappa]

I was going to say something similar to Mark - I assume it was to do with protecting the load en route 

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Tappa said:

... I assume it was to do with protecting the load en route 

More likely protecting the countryside between pit and power station from getting plastered in the black stuff ...... though I'm sure that's not quite the Corporation's take on the matter.

[Flying Pig]

On 18/06/2022 at 12:49, Dunsignalling said:

 

As a matter of interest, was there any location on the Southern where end-unloading was necessary?

 

John

 

Posted on an old thread about wagon tipplers:

 

094 CORRALL QUEEN Corralls Wharf Southampton 10.71 by George Woods, on Flickr

[John Isherwood]

10 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Posted on an old thread about wagon tipplers:

 

094 CORRALL QUEEN Corralls Wharf Southampton 10.71 by George Woods, on Flickr

 

Could those tipplers tip both ways - the next wagon has its doors at the opposite end?

 

CJI.

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Could those tipplers tip both ways - the next wagon has its doors at the opposite end?

 

CJI.

They could hand wagons with doors at either and, as there were a pair of platforms, with the pivots at the centre. There were a few of this type around; Lincoln had one, IIRC. They could also handle hoppers, which could simply discharge between the tracks.

[Wickham Green too]

5 hours ago, cctransuk said:

... the next wagon has its door at the opposite end?

.... as has the wagon just creeping into shot to the left.

 

Anyway, back on topic ; livery samples for 940003/5 : - 

 

 

... looks like someone's got the number wrong on 940020.

 

[Dunsignalling]

I've not seen a list for the whole batch, but some of the "Type 4 Rebuilds" into D1400 had numbers  in the 273xx series (Order No.A865 of 1935, 650 wagons).

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

Now I've looked at the pics on my laptop, I have spotted the wagons are kit-builds. Doh!

[Wickham Green too]

The Dia.1379 pair are ABS kits and the Dia.1400 an ABS body on a Ratio chassis ......... something over thirty years old now !

[BenL]

Great to see that the artworks are now up for these:

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/sr-8-plank-opens/

 

A particular commendation to Rapido for offering some SR versions with 13 ton branding, very useful for those of us who model the 'Big 4' post-1939 👍

[gwrrob]

Seen at Warley.

 

[Dunsignalling]

On 20/06/2022 at 21:19, Wickham Green too said:

The Dia.1379 pair are ABS kits and the Dia.1400 an ABS body on a Ratio chassis ......... something over thirty years old now !

I have a Dia.1400 nearing completion, Cambrian kit with BR avb conversion and collared buffers, all from ABS castings. My stash of those is becoming rather depleted so I hope the new owners of the range get it back on the market soon.

 

Fortunately, this variant will fill a gap in Rapido's plans, though I have pre-ordered four others to replace and supplement older kit-built examples that have seen better days decades! 

 

Hoping some 9' wheelbase vans (unfitted and Power brake) might be to follow. I have previously kit-bashed one of each using Ratio, Cambrian and ABS parts, but more would be welcome. 

 

John

[Wickham Green too]

3 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

... Hoping some 9' wheelbase vans (unfitted and Power brake) might be to follow. ...

Might be more likely from a company doing Southern Banana vans !

[MarkSG]

On 17/06/2022 at 12:41, Compound2632 said:

 

But I like @rapidoandy's emphasis on this being the Southern's most numerous wagon design. Perhaps this heralds a series of "most numerous" for each Group - perhaps then we'll see a genuinely common-or-garden wagon like the LMS standard 12 ton open, D1666, which by the early 1930s accounted for about 8% of all railway company-owned wagons - or around six for every one of the Southern D1379 and D1400 wagons. Any layout set in the south-west in the grouping era should be predominantly populated with LMS and LNER wagons.

 

I've just realised you were spot on with this. Maybe the next release will be a common LNER wagon?