Mystery Picture - 9F on the WR

[Andy Kirkham]

Does anyone recognise the location of this picture from the Robert Gadsdon collection? His caption places it in the Bristol area, but I don't know anywhere round Bristol that looks like this.

 

To me it looks rather like Devon. The fields on the right look as if they might be that characteristic red colour derived from the Permian sandstone. Stoneycombe came to mind, but I don't think Stoneycombe quarry has a face looming over the railway like that.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Andy Kirkham

[Blandford1969]

You could always post it to the Railway Identification Group on Facebook . We may be a small group about 800 but we have managed to solve lots of mystery locations between us. 

 

Best wishes

Duncan

[Andy Kirkham]

21 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

You could always post it to the Railway Identification Group on Facebook . We may be a small group about 800 but we have managed to solve lots of mystery locations between us. 

 

Best wishes

Duncan

Thanks Duncan, I've just done that.

[melmerby]

There is an old quarry with a steep face (with little lake) opposite the current quarry

It's about 90m asl compared wityh the railway at 20-30m ASL

 

Maybe looking south west from Bickley road

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by melmerby

[rodent279]

58 minutes ago, Andy Kirkham said:

Does anyone recognise the location of this picture from the Robert Gadsdon collection? His caption places it in the Bristol area, but I don't know anywhere round Bristol that looks like this.

 

To me it looks rather like Devon. The fields on the right look as if they might be that characteristic red colour derived from the Permian sandstone. Stoneycombe came to mind, but I don't think Stoneycombe quarry has a face looming over the railway like that.

 

 

Is it in the vicinity of the former St Anne's Park station?

[The Johnster]

I think it looks more like limestone in the light of a hazy dummer afternoon than sandstone to me, and incidentally the predominant sandstone in Devon is the ‘Old Red’, which, by no coincidence whatsoever, is from the Devonian (420-360mya) Period.  It occurs at the surface over much of Devon, Southern Wales, and Herefordshire. The Permian (300-250mya give or take) sandstone is the (by comparison) ‘New Red’, the darker coloured stone of Cheshire, the Liverpool area, and Notts and South Yorkshire. 
 

It has a feel of the leafy glades of St Anne’s, but Stoneycombe is a limestone quarry; I’m not being much help, am I, mummy?

[Miss Prism]

Feels a bit Somerset & Dorset to me.

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, Miss Prism said:

Feels a bit Somerset & Dorset to me.

 

 

I thought that.

 

Wasn't 92205 allocated to Bath Green Park in 1960?

 

 

Jason

[Cwmtwrch]

Not officially, although temporary changes were not always noted. From 5/59 to 9/60 she was apparently officially at Bristol St. Philips Marsh. She is carrying ECS lamps, and the stock all looks to be ex-GWR.

[bécasse]

92205 was new to St Phillips Marsh at the beginning of May 1959, then moved briefly to Westbury in October 1960 before going to Eastleigh (and subsequently Feltham) in January 1961. She ended up at York and Wakefield after a very brief life. She hasn't got SR lamp irons in the photo, so it was definitely taken while she was on the WR in 1959/60 (and the presence of a coach in crimson & cream would tend to confirm that). 

Edited May 3, 2022 by bécasse

[Miss Prism]

I'm going off the S&D feel - there's a WR LQ signal.

[Steamport Southport]

Interesting loco. Can't have been many that were allocated to or worked on four different regions and I wouldn't discount it making it to Scotland.

 

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=92205&loco=92205

 

Definitely an S&D loco though. They went on loan during the Summer of 1960 to work the holiday trains.

 

http://shedbashuk.blogspot.com/2015/09/bath-green-park-1934-1966.html

 

But this is possibly a bigger clue. Taunton.

 

https://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/photos/gallery/ttcollection/4

 

Burlescombe.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p85572348/e824d9a58

 

 

 

Jason

[rodent279]

17 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

I'm going off the S&D feel - there's a WR LQ signal.

There's also what looks like a WR ATC ramp at the far right of the picture, in the 4ft of the track that the loco is about to pass over.

[melmerby]

22 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

I'm going off the S&D feel - there's a WR LQ signal.

 

3 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

There's also what looks like a WR ATC ramp at the far right of the picture, in the 4ft of the track that the loco is about to pass over.

I spotted those right at the start and was surprised with the tentavive S&D connections

[melmerby]

Point of pedantry

How can it be copyright Robert Gadsdon, when the photographer is unknown?

 

[Andy Kirkham]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I think it looks more like limestone in the light of a hazy dummer afternoon than sandstone to me, and incidentally the predominant sandstone in Devon is the ‘Old Red’, which, by no coincidence whatsoever, is from the Devonian (420-360mya) Period.  It occurs at the surface over much of Devon, Southern Wales, and Herefordshire. The Permian (300-250mya give or take) sandstone is the (by comparison) ‘New Red’, the darker coloured stone of Cheshire, the Liverpool area, and Notts and South Yorkshire. 
 

It has a feel of the leafy glades of St Anne’s, but Stoneycombe is a limestone quarry; I’m not being much help, am I, mummy?

 

I beg to differ on the geology. There are both Old and New Red Sandstones in South Devon, and the New forms the familiar red cliffs at Dawlish.

 

But I do agree that the cliff looks like limestone and although its hard to be sure at this scale on the map, but it appears that there is a small outcrop of Carboniferous Limestone in the vicinity of Stoneycombe, with New Red Sandstone just to the east.

 

 

I know what you mean about St Annes Park, but its by no means as bucolic as in the mystery photo. (Please pardon the quality of these, which were a bit ambitious for an Instamatic)

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Andy Kirkham

[rodent279]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

Point of pedantry

How can it be copyright Robert Gadsdon, when the photographer is unknown?

 

Because he will have bought a photo off ebay or at a show, and now has the copyright. 

[Hal Nail]

35 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Because he will have bought a photo off ebay or at a show, and now has the copyright. 

Copywrite remains with the photographer, unless expressly sold, which it generally speaking isn't under those circumstances (no idea in this particular case obviously).

 

i doubt anyone particularly minds when enthusiasts use a photo to illustrate a point online for no gain but we arent actually supposed to.

 

I saw one of mine of Raducanu on the BBC the other day, filched from online.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Hal Nail
clarity

[eastglosmog]

Stoneycombe Quarry works neither the Old or New Red sandstone, nor the Carboniferous Limestone.  It works the Middle Devonian East Ogwell Limestone (mainly pink and grey colored) see here: https://devoncc.sharepoint.com/sites/PublicDocs/Environment/_layouts/15/download.aspx?guestaccesstoken=ujxKBHbThqN5%2fxt4O%2fjIe0ERwVU%2bzgscC9bMKV4VKYM%3d&docid=065e696e81bd34a939be784afb957a9e5&rev=1

 

[Adam]

29 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Copywrite remains with the photographer, unless expressly sold, which it generally speaking isn't under those circumstances (no idea in this particular case obviously).

 

i doubt anyone particularly minds when enthusiasts use a photo to illustrate a point online for no gain but we arent actually supposed to.

 

I saw one of mine of Raducanu on the BBC the other day, filched from online.

 

 

 

I suspect that, in this case, it's a reflection of the colourisation (not one of his best - not declaring that is a bit off in my view) of the image - and possibly a misunderstanding of how copyright works which is very common. For that reason I wouldn't trust any of the colouring shown. 

 

Adam

[phil_sutters]

The Stoneycombe disused quarry  or the escarpment to its east, looks like a serious contender, as the backdrop, when looked at on Google 3D. Streetview from Bickley Road is just trees and hedges! Has anyone done a cab-ride video of that bit of the line, I wonder?

[Hal Nail]

27 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

The Stoneycombe disused quarry  or the escarpment to its east, looks like a serious contender, as the backdrop, when looked at on Google 3D. Streetview from Bickley Road is just trees and hedges! Has anyone done a cab-ride video of that bit of the line, I wonder?

 

On the map above I think you would be trackside somewhere just above the KIN of "Kingske", looking at an up train in the afternoon. The bank on the left would work with the contours where the K is and aside from the visible road running West to East, it looks like there is a sunken one running South under the line which would be Bickley. 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Hal Nail

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Adam said:

 

I suspect that, in this case, it's a reflection of the colourisation (not one of his best - not declaring that is a bit off in my view) of the image - and possibly a misunderstanding of how copyright works which is very common. For that reason I wouldn't trust any of the colouring shown. 

 

Adam

According to the flickr post it is an under-exposed colour slide but "restored"

 

If it has never been published by the photographer and as it is pre 89, it is in copyright until the end of 2039.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by melmerby

[Cwmtwrch]

4 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Copywrite remains with the photographer, unless expressly sold, which it generally speaking isn't under those circumstances (no idea in this particular case obviously).

 

Just as an aside, copyright outlives the artist/photographer/etc. and will, therefore, be part of the estate on death, passing to the heir(s).

[Artless Bodger]

My first impression was Avon valley east of Bristol. Looks like the far river bank on the right. Looking at the NLS website there were plenty of quarries on the north bank around Hanham, now thoroughly overgrown. The soil around there is pinkish - see Google maps. Track looks a bit straight for the line up to Dainton.