Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[surfsup]

Nice modification Gareth. Is the door not a separate piece then?

 

Although ive not got one to say exactly, by the looks of the pictures - no - the corridor seems to be a clip on effort with the cab door moulded flush with the rest of the face of the cab...

 

Nice modification though Gareth - Something id be a tad afraid to do with a £140 model (ive stripped some models within 10 minutes of getting them, but only under £50!)...And your modification, does make the face look pretty spot on! Far better than the standard Hornby effort!

Edited September 9, 2011 by surfsup

[SRman]

That definitely improves the face, Gareth. You are very brave hacking a brand new model worth well over the ton, though!

[Trains4U]

That definitely improves the face, Gareth. You are very brave hacking a brand new model worth well over the ton, though!

 

Be careful not to mistake bravery with stupidity... (I wasn't sure how it was going to turn out!)

 

Though it now looks like an EMU, rather than a class 207 with a gangway stuck on the front.

 

 

Just for clarity, The body is a one piece moulding. The construction will make it very difficult to disassemble further than body removal.

 

Inside the roofline is a plastic frame (Which has the luggage rack mouldings on it. This is held in by 8 screws and secures the lighting board. Even after the screws come out, the frame cannot be removed as it is wedged in by the many seperate window mouldings, that have been securely glued in place. Getting to the circuit board will be a very difficult task.

 

The gangway clips in to the front face of the model and can be removed with some care.

 

The door joins, door gutter, handle and a recess at the top of the door are moulded into the face of the model.

 

The cable recesses are part of the glazing unit (Clear plastic, painted yellow) as the face of the bodyshell has two apetures in it.

 

 

The front glazing unit extends the full width tof the front and is securely glued, the top of the glazing plastic is a few mm above the cab windows.

 

To carry out the modification, i cut vertically through the bodyshell and glazing unit until the blade passed through the top of the glazing plastic (Which is below the top level of the gangway)

 

Uning a craft knife, I then scored through the plastic between the two cuts and broke the door away.

 

The LED lighting is on a seperate board on flying leads, which makes this job a whole lot easier as the whole assembly comes away still in place on the door.

 

I then filed a mm or so off the bottom of the door and around the top corners to make it fit into the gangway apeture.

 

 

The door will need to be glued, as will the gangway, but not until after I've finished painting and weathering.

 

Since taking the pics, I have painted the inside of the gangway, the gangway face and around the underside of the rubbing plate with Railmatch weathered black, which improves the appearance further.

 

The gangway is also moulded in Black plastic, so I scored the join with a craft knife to remove some paint, representing the compression mechanism. (Though not as tidily as I could have done - you can see this in the pictures)

 

 

I'll try and make a better job of the other end! Watch out when cutting that you don't veer off the vertical. I did, hence the ugly black hole on the right hand side of the door (time to get the filler out...)

Edited September 9, 2011 by Trains4U

[brushman47544]

Gareth, you really should NOT have done that .

 

I was ready to accept the gangway error and buy a Blue/Grey one when it came along, but having seen your improved version, now I'm not sure at all that I'll be able to put up with the original look.

[number6]

Respect. Love a bit of hacksaw action! but for me the cab still looks wrong - wayyy too chubby and that seems pointedly obvious from the prototype images posted here. Reminds me of the Tubby Duff - you think you can live with it until its pointed out. So disappointing. And I still don't understand how these basic but critical shape errors get through the commissioning process without someone who can make the call jumping on them, pointing it out and getting it fixed. Its obviously not something that we amateurs can do anything about as its often too late by the time. Better keep my hacksaws sharpened.

R

[Trevellan]

The amount of constructive communication and feedback on the subject of the new Dapol Western convinces me that even the big boys (Bachmann/Hornby) ought to think more about consultation with their customers. Having waited so long for this ubiquitous, workaday EMU it is disappointing that there appear to be so many avoidable errors, especially after the justifiably lauded Maunsells and Hawksworths.

 

Emulating Gareth's micro-surgery with a chainsaw will, I fear, be a step too far for me, at least for the moment.

[Trains4U]

Lets wait and see what my final version looks like, with the painted gangways and some light weathering of the cab ends.

I might offer it as a service, once I perfect the technique.

 

This unit will probably go back on sale with a mark up for the modification (Maybe at £170 - around the RRP)

[orcadian]

Gareth,

What an incredible difference in overall impression, well done! :no:

 

But, as others have said, pity it had to be done!. We've read from Dapol Dave and others that it seems very difficult to stop some folk in China from doing it 'their way' rather than sticking to the letter of the instructions, so perhaps Hornby just had to , reluctantly, accept it as 'good enough' rather than 'picture perfect'.

 

Now for the nightmare scenario - September 2014 - Mazak rot discovered in a Hornby VEP in Peterborough!!!!! No!!!!!!!!!!

 

Richard

[Trains4U]

Youd have to find some mazak in it first...

[tomstaf]

Well that does improve it significantly. I think if we get Mr. Extreme Etchings along to sort out window frames and replacement cab glazing, it'll be a fiddly, expensive job - but one that will make it truly look like a VEP :-)

 

Can you commission a Connex South Central liveried on please Mr Trains4U?

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[NickL2008]

Agreed id like a Connex one, even though I dont intend on modelling the juicey juice rail... pity about the errors, I think it looks a good model, and the modifications will help it to look a bit more right

 

NL

[kintbury jon]

Would it be possible to produce a piece of metal or resin to fit on top of the inside of the gangway? A gap could be put in place for the headocde box and that could have a piece of clear plastic inserted so that the lighting would not be affected. This would save carving out the end.

 

Just a thought?

[Oldddudders]

Lets wait and see what my final version looks like, with the painted gangways and some light weathering of the cab ends.

I might offer it as a service, once I perfect the technique.

 

This unit will probably go back on sale with a mark up for the modification (Maybe at £170 - around the RRP)

Given the amount of wittering that has gone on about the cab appearance, I would have thought that your "better mousetrap" should result in a number of customers beating a path to Peterborough to take advantage of your relatively-affordable offer.

 

Congrats on having both the nerve to do it, and then publish raw pictures. You deserve to succeed with such an attitude!

[Trains4U]

I suppose my point is that the conversion, whilst is should not be necessary, is relatively straightforward.

 

Far from rubbishing the model, and Hornby (and me) losing lots of sales, I'm hopeful that people will still buy it, knowing that they can achieve a better result with not a lot of effort. - though obviously invalidating any warranty.

 

If done carefully, no painting or filling is required, and there is no fiddly messing around with the lighting circuits and light guides.

 

I've got a lot in stock - I'd sooner find a way of selling them (And maybe more) than potentially having them sat on the shelves and then losing money on them if a price cut occurrs.

 

For me the frontal appearance is the biggest concern - I grew up with them and the appearance of the model just didn't sit right. My irrational impulse to modify overcame the rational cost based fear.

 

I must admit to breaking into a sweat when my saw broke the paint...

 

 

Now my next task is how to tackle the 1st class compartments - that may be next week, once the Open Day is out of the way.

[spamcan61]

Would it be possible to produce a piece of metal or resin to fit on top of the inside of the gangway? A gap could be put in place for the headocde box and that could have a piece of clear plastic inserted so that the lighting would not be affected. This would save carving out the end.

 

Just a thought?

 

I was wondering about that, or something similar - maybe a new corridor connector (as this is a separate moulding I believe) with the door in the right place, ping the old one off (random factory glue application permitting) and glue new one in place, paint, job done.

 

Hopefully be able to leave the original door as part of the flat front to maintain the rigidity of the moulding.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Well, my father will kill me if he sees what I've just done to a new £140 4-VEP ...

[Tan] Clearly you need a version of the Molesworth self-adjusting thank you letter, strike through whatever does not apply:

 

Dere Aunt Uncle Stinker Gran Pen-pal insert other name here Dad

 

Thank you so much for the train tractor gun delightful present* sweets insert other item here

 

It was lovely, just right, as good as the other presents, not bad super

 

And I have played with it constantly, bust it already, no patience with it, swapped it for something else, disamantled it

 

I am feeling great, lousy, ok, in top form, very unwell, and hope you are too

 

Next gift is due insert date here

 

From Trains4U

 

* When you can't remember what it was

[/tan]

[G-BOAF]

looking back at this picture

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=45185

 

Clearly the door problem was there, but the windows look OK, the distance between window and body edge looks less. This suggests that if there IS an error, it is exagerated by the yellow front, possilby extending too far round the cab front?. Either that or some mistake was induced. Shame no one got a head on shot of the model to compare it wth the prototype

[number6]

What is interesting about the image you link to there G-BOAF is that the centre door seems correctly positioned forward of the cab front.

[spamcan61]

Not to me it doesn't - looks like a basically flat fronted moulding including the door, with the corridor moulding in a different colour, emphasising it's a different moulding. The proportions do look subtly different without the yellow though.

[number6]

Sorry! - unclear - what I meant was it wasn't apparent in the grey plastic [nor were the positions of the cab windows]. Slap some yellow on and: opps.

R

[Godfrey Glyn]

It's never possible to make absolute statements when comparing a photo of a model and the real thing but looking at Ceptic's beautifully annotated photo of the 3-CEP it would appear that Hornby's VEP does have some differences - the vestibule door and the lower levels of the driver's side and front windows are fairly obvious. I'm afraid I am not brave enough to take a saw to it yet but simply running a pencil around the gangway join makes it look a bit better to me.

Godfrey

[andyman7]

The pencil trick works remarkably well!

[Trains4U]

OK,

Photos are still a bit crude, but here is what I've done in addition to the changes shown previously:

 

Inside wall of gangway, and gangway step painted black

Rubbing plate painted black around the outside

Weathered black applied to the buffers

 

All of the yellow front very slightly dulled with Tamiya weathering poweders

 

Tamiya powders (oil black) applied damp to the cable recesses, steps and the distinctive space above the gangway that is always missed bythe carriage washer

 

Powder also applied to door joins and gutter.

 

Gangway exterior has had slightly different colour of warning yellow applied to he outer half of the compression mechanism and has been lightly weathered.

 

Buffers painted weathered black

 

I think it now really looks like a 4-VEP

 

[Trains4U]

I think I need to takeanother 2mm or so off the bottom of the door though...

[Trains4U]

Shaved the door, looks better, but now really needs gluing as it keeps sliding forwards.