Ferry Wagon Rake Size?

[Whetstone Bridge]

I’m collecting the Dapol ferry wagons.  Anyone know the prototypical rake size?  A photo would be really helpful.

 

WB

[bécasse]

The Southern Railway train ferries could accommodate 40 wagons which probably came up to London as two train loads.

[Michael Hodgson]

59 minutes ago, bécasse said:

The Southern Railway train ferries could accommodate 40 wagons which probably came up to London as two train loads.

Would the ferries normally load to capacity, or was it only at peak times?

Would the two trains run closely behind one another, having arrived at the port at teh same time - and would both go to the same London destination?

 

[Simon Lee]

3 hours ago, Whetstone Bridge said:

I’m collecting the Dapol ferry wagons.  Anyone know the prototypical rake size?  A photo would be really helpful.

 

WB

Assuming you mean the Interfrigo type van, then an average of 20/23 wagons of these or the Transfesa Blues or combination would be a train load for say Paddock Wood.

 

This would then tend to be a full ship load for the St Germain or St Eloi returning to Dunkerque. 

 

The 40 wagon capacity was based on the shorter wagon builds from the start of the Trainferry era.

[Simon Lee]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Would the ferries normally load to capacity, or was it only at peak times?

Would the two trains run closely behind one another, having arrived at the port at teh same time - and would both go to the same London destination?

 

 

Quite often the ships would be loaded to full depending in the mix of traffic available. During the 80s the 1100 service ex Dunkerque tended to be full of Transfesa/Interfrigo traffic, as it was the first departure after arrival of the train from the Spanish border. 

 

Certain sailings were always heavily loaded, when the export Polybulks ran they took up virtually a full ship (2330 sailing) on 2 consecutive days. The period upto  Christmas was naturally 90% perishable traffic import and a consequent rush on export empties for Transfesa.

[John Isherwood]

4 hours ago, Whetstone Bridge said:

I’m collecting the Dapol ferry wagons.  Anyone know the prototypical rake size?  A photo would be really helpful.

 

WB

 

I'm sure that you must already be aware but - just in case - the Airfix / Dapol Interfrigo kit is HO (3.5mm.) scale, not OO (4mm.) scale.

 

CJI.

[Steven B]

It would help to know which scale. As well as the Interfrigo kit, Dapol also make the bogie Cargowaggon in N Gauge.

 

If you looking at the bogie vans, then anything from around 3 to over 20 is possible. They were also common in ones and twos in Speedlink trains.

 

Steven B.

[Whetstone Bridge]

Thanks everyone.

 

It’s the N Gauge models (e.g. Dapol 2F-022-008) that I’m collecting.

 

 They’re still reasonably good value so I can afford a decent sized rake.

[Fat Controller]

10 minutes ago, Whetstone Bridge said:

Thanks everyone.

 

It’s the N Gauge models (e.g. Dapol 2F-022-008) that I’m collecting.

 

 They’re still reasonably good value so I can afford a decent sized rake.

A formation I used to see when we lived near the Newcastle- Carlisle line was a bogie van, then a solitary VEA, with a second bogie van bringing up the rear. Something nasty from the MoD, I assume

[Mike Storey]

As someone who worked on the Dover linkspan for a summer, in the mid-70's, I can confirm what has been said about capacity. It equated to 20 SLU's (Standard Length Units) per side, but that does not mean 20 wagons!! Modern single axle wagons (such as Transfesas) , even in those days, were usually at least 1.5 SLU's, and modern bogies 2 plus. In those days, every sailing was filled to capacity and there was often a "queue" in Dover Town Yard for the next one or two. 

 

As for your era, I was based at Ashford (days and nights) when these Cargowaggon single bogies first started coming into use, and I rarely saw more than four or five in a rake. But that may have changed later, up to 1995, when  the Train Ferry ceased.

 

[Fat Controller]

5 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

As someone who worked on the Dover linkspan for a summer, in the mid-70's, I can confirm what has been said about capacity. It equated to 20 SLU's (Standard Length Units) per side, but that does not mean 20 wagons!! Modern single axle wagons (such as Transfesas) , even in those days, were usually at least 1.5 SLU's, and modern bogies 2 plus. In those days, every sailing was filled to capacity and there was often a "queue" in Dover Town Yard for the next one or two. 

 

As for your era, I was based at Ashford (days and nights) when these Cargowaggon single bogies first started coming into use, and I rarely saw more than four or five in a rake. But that may have changed later, up to 1995, when  the Train Ferry ceased.

 

We moved down to Kent in 1991, and saw the last few years of Train-Ferry operation. By this time, Transfesa's Paddock Wood operation had been supplanted by Philips Whirlpool. The trains still ran, but full of white goods; the blue vans and the insulated ones replaced by 4-wheel and bogie Ferryvans. Most of the former were the wooden-bodied FS ones, originally intended for perishables traffic.

[The Pilotman]

How about this then? Well in excess of 20 on this train:

http://www.hondawanderer.com/47314_Harbury_1991.htm

 

[Mike Storey]

1 hour ago, The Pilotman said:

How about this then? Well in excess of 20 on this train:

http://www.hondawanderer.com/47314_Harbury_1991.htm

 

 

The author mentioned "ferry" wagons. This photo is clearly not a ferry working. So I guess we all need to know whether the author wants to know rakes for the Train Ferry, or just rakes generally?

 

[Whetstone Bridge]

3 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

 

The author mentioned "ferry" wagons. This photo is clearly not a ferry working. So I guess we all need to know whether the author wants to know rakes for the Train Ferry, or just rakes generally?

 

It was a general question in the first instance, but great to learn some more about ferry wagons and their use.

 

WB

[The Pilotman]

1 hour ago, Mike Storey said:

The author mentioned "ferry" wagons. This photo is clearly not a ferry working. So I guess we all need to know whether the author wants to know rakes for the Train Ferry, or just rakes generally?

I think you may have inferred too much from the OP. He mentioned ferry wagons and backed it up with a photo of the model in question which are of the same type (albeit not the same livery) as those in the picture for which I provided the link. Whether that train is a “ferry working” or not is irrelevant; the OP didn’t ask about “ferry workings”. RTQ.

Edited April 20, 2022 by The Pilotman

[Mike Storey]

1 minute ago, The Pilotman said:

I think you may have inferred too much from the OP. Yes, he mentioned ferry wagons and backed it up with a photo of the model in question which are of the same type (albeit not the same livery) as those in the picture for which I provided the link. Whether that train is a “ferry working” or not is irrelevant; the OP didn’t ask about “ferry workings”. 

 

Think you are a bit late. The OP has responded already. but, thanks for your input.

 

[The Stationmaster]

Unloading the train ferry at Dunkerque, summer 1992.  Whereas the two tracks were shunted in parallel at Dover (certainly the case with heavy vehicles) SNCF were not so fussy  so quite happily shunted one side at once so I was able to get this view of the whole raft being taken off the ferry.   Nice to look back on something which went with my day job at that time!

 

[SteveyDee68]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Unloading the train ferry at Dunkerque, summer 1992.  Whereas the two tracks were shunted in parallel at Dover (certainly the case with heavy vehicles) SNCF were not so fussy  so quite happily shunted one side at once so I was able to get this view of the whole raft being taken off the ferry.   Nice to look back on something which went with my day job at that time!

 

That’s a lovely photo of train ferry operations which I think @The Stationmaster has shared before (possibly on my own thread about modelling a train ferry in 1:76 scale?) but thank you for sharing again - pictures of the train deck of the ferries are relatively rare!

 

Steve S