SECR 6w Goods Brake (SR Dia.1558)

[JSpencer]

Time for the BR version of the brake to appear 😊  Yesterday the Rapido 8 planks arrived (more on those in the respective thread later)  and these can be seen next to the BR 6w brake.

 

Apart from the loco, the entire train is made up from Rapido rolling stock (various ex SECR wagons plus SR 8 planks). All making a great compliment to the O1.

 

 

[sleepermonster]

Here is a lighthearted variation on the theme: a brake van of the Southern Railway of Northern Ireland, based at Old Windmill Sidings, Buggleskelly, SRNI. Available from Tom Marshall of the Will Hay Appreciation Society, and from the Bagnall Locomotive Group at Wirksworth.

 

[OliverSR]

Having recently bought the Early BR livery with red ends it really is a very detailed model. When test running round the middle axle caused some derailment on my less than perfect track work( a couple of areas where it was really bad I relaid the track as other trains have had issues). As a few others have described removing the bearings from the central wheelset has solved any issues I had and it now runs on my layout as faultlessly as it looks. This was my first Rapido item and certainly sets the atnddar high. Looking forward to the loco I have on pre-order…

OliverSR

[SRman]

6 hours ago, OliverSR said:

Having recently bought the Early BR livery with red ends it really is a very detailed model. When test running round the middle axle caused some derailment on my less than perfect track work( a couple of areas where it was really bad I relaid the track as other trains have had issues). As a few others have described removing the bearings from the central wheelset has solved any issues I had and it now runs on my layout as faultlessly as it looks. This was my first Rapido item and certainly sets the atnddar high. Looking forward to the loco I have on pre-order…

OliverSR

I had similar problems but on track where no other trains or vehicles were having problems. My solution had to be with the brake vans only. As mentioned in my layout topic, I removed the metal bearings from the centre axles on each of my brake vans (one single and one double veranda type). This mostly sorted the running, except the double veranda van was still derailing at one single location on a plain curve. Checking the back to backs on both vehicles showed all but one axle (which was on the double veranda van) were at just on 14.5mm, with the exception being slightly over that. A bit of a squeeze with my fingers on the offending axle's wheels fixed the problem once and for all, and both vans have now been trundling around at some speed on the tail of my (somewhat weird!) test train.

[Dunsignalling]

I've not run mine enough yet to be certain their trackholding will be as good everywhere as it has been so far. The wheelsets seem to be quite a sloppy fit in the bearings, though, so I'm not anticipating trouble.

 

However, this is a problem I was presented with on early Bachmann N Class tenders, which don't have bearings to remove, so required a different approach!

 

Removing material to fit my preferred couplings suggested that because metal bearings are provided, the factory may have made these brake van underframes from a softer (white) plastic rather than the hard self-coloured stuff we are used to. Removing them might therefore create wear issues in the longer term. I therefore suggest my 'N' solution might be more prudent.

 

A little more "give and take" can be imparted by filing a tiny amount off each axle pin-point on the centre wheelset only. This creates a bit more side-play and allows enough vertical deflection to ensure the middle axle is just "along for the ride". 

 

John

Edited July 3, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Michael Hodgson]

 

On 19/06/2023 at 09:36, JSpencer said:

 

 

You're going to be running a break van special for the railway enthusiasts !  😄.

[Dunsignalling]

2 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Hi John,

 

You appear to be looking for a solution for a problem that by your own admission hasn’t materialised or you actually anticipate, so I am uncertain of the reason for the post. I have had no issues with the running of these vans on Canute Road Quay through its Peco small radius turnouts and Ys. 

Hi, Graham,

 

I was purely responding to a couple of posts from folk who have found an issue and "solved" it by removing the centre bearings, which I considered might not be wise.

 

John

Edited July 3, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Graham_Muz]

Just now, Dunsignalling said:

Hi, Graham,

 

I was purely responding to a couple of posts from folk who have found an issue and solved it by removing the bearings, which I considered might not be wise.

 

John

Hi John, 

 

Yes sorry, I realised that just after I posted so was in the process of deleting my post when you replied. 

[JSpencer]

War Department (world war 1) train on the SECR. Bachmann flat wagon with tank, 4 Bachmann War Office tankers, 1 gun powder van (Dapol), 1 RN van (Dapol), and 2 Chatham dockyard opens (Hornby, Dapol). Pulled by a C class in simplified Wainwright livery, with 2 Rapido 6 wheel break vans, 1 at each end as the SECR practiced often at the time.

 

[JSpencer]

Another 6w van. This time on the end of an entire Rapido SECR train (except the loco and a rails van at the start).

The 6w van has a white roof, while the 10 ton vans next to it are dark grey.

 

 

[greatcoleswoodhalt]

48 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

Pulled by a C class in simplified Wainwright livery, with 2 Rapido 6 wheel break vans, 1 at each end as the SECR practiced often at the time.

 

Great selection of images.

 

Admittedly referring to preservation, I know the Bluebell Railway tend to use only one break van, shunting it to the rear of the train when running-round (which contrasts to most others).

 

Would the SE&CR have used two to avoid this process, do you know?

[JSpencer]

1 hour ago, jafcreasey said:

 

Great selection of images.

 

Admittedly referring to preservation, I know the Bluebell Railway tend to use only one break van, shunting it to the rear of the train when running-round (which contrasts to most others).

 

Would the SE&CR have used two to avoid this process, do you know?

 

I am not entirely sure of the reasons. Multiple brake vans had been used on trains previously as those were lighter 10 ton types and you could find pairs or threes running on the ends. Thereafter, it seems to have been a practice thereafter to secure larger trains with a 20ton type, one at each end. But you equally see photos of trains with just one so.... In postwar days, I have not seen evidence this continued and only one brake van is in use on photos I have seen.

The war train makes a good candidate with it's dangerous load.

There is a photo in a Southern wagons SECR part, with three brake vans in a crash. 2 of them being the rails single veranda type with the Wainwright lettering the other being the 2 veranda type with the later lettering. It seems that 1 of each type was on one train with the 3rd on second train. Hence my train top and tailed with 1 of each type of brake van.

[Compound2632]

London Bridge 6 Jan 1900, Reading goods, leading vehicle SECR brake No. 3060:

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BoT_LondonBridgeJan1900.pdf

 

Sevenoaks Tub Hill 11 July 1900, Ashford to Hither Green empty goods, 41 empty wagons and brake at the rear (only, apparently), brake No. 6459:

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BoT_SevenoaksTubsHill1900.pdf

 

Note that in both cases, the other damaged wagons in these trains were from the northern companies (GN, Mid, LNW) or PO coal wagons - not a SECR wagon in sight!

Edited July 7, 2023 by Compound2632

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

 

I am not entirely sure of the reasons. Multiple brake vans had been used on trains previously as those were lighter 10 ton types and you could find pairs or threes running on the ends. Thereafter, it seems to have been a practice thereafter to secure larger trains with a 20ton type, one at each end. But you equally see photos of trains with just one so.... In postwar days, I have not seen evidence this continued and only one brake van is in use on photos I have seen.

The war train makes a good candidate with it's dangerous load.

There is a photo in a Southern wagons SECR part, with three brake vans in a crash. 2 of them being the rails single veranda type with the Wainwright lettering the other being the 2 veranda type with the later lettering. It seems that 1 of each type was on one train with the 3rd on second train. Hence my train top and tailed with 1 of each type of brake van.

The usual reason for providing a brake van at either end of a goods/mineral train (irrespective of operator) is where the working would have occasion to reverse direction during its journey, especially if the route to be traversed involved more than one reversal.

 

The purpose was purely to save the time involved in shunting a single brake van from one end of the train to the other. Such reversals would sometimes take place on running lines, rather than in or adjacent to yards where the availability of shunting staff was assured.

 

The van behind the loco wouldn't normally be manned (and the brakes hence inoperative), with the guard changing ends whenever a reversal occurred.   

 

John

[Compound2632]

30 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The van behind the loco wouldn't normally be manned (and the brakes hence inoperative), with the guard changing ends whenever a reversal occurred.   

 

In the London Bridge accident mentioned above, Henry Davis, goods guard, was in the rear van of the goods train; he states that there was a brakesman in the front van. That man was injured and did not give evidence but Col. Marindin describes him as a goods guard. It's not explicitly stated but it would appear the rear guard was in charge of the train.

 

The passenger train involved in the collision also had front and rear guards, a hang-over from the days of handbrake-only passenger trains but one would have thought rendered superfluous by the vacuum brake. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Compound2632

[The Lurker]

extract of an accident report from 1919 at Paddock Wood when a goods train ran into the rear of another that was shunting:

 

It was the heavier Margate train that was setting back into a siding

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, The Lurker said:

extract of an accident report from 1919 at Paddock Wood

 

Implies that two of the 20 ton brakes in the Folkestone train were being moved as a the result of some earlier unbalanced working?

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Implies that two of the 20 ton brakes in the Folkestone train were being moved as a the result of some earlier unbalanced working?

That would be my interpretation.

[Artless Bodger]

On 03/07/2023 at 04:03, SRman said:

I had similar problems but on track where no other trains or vehicles were having problems. My solution had to be with the brake vans only. As mentioned in my layout topic, I removed the metal bearings from the centre axles on each of my brake vans (one single and one double veranda type). This mostly sorted the running, except the double veranda van was still derailing at one single location on a plain curve. Checking the back to backs on both vehicles showed all but one axle (which was on the double veranda van) were at just on 14.5mm, with the exception being slightly over that. A bit of a squeeze with my fingers on the offending axle's wheels fixed the problem once and for all, and both vans have now been trundling around at some speed on the tail of my (somewhat weird!) test train.

I've recently bought the late SR brown one, trying some shunting I found it derailed over my set-track points on the curved route. I thought it was the track at first, then the b2bs. I couldn't work out how to get the wheels out, but thanks to comments on this thread, with a lump in my throat, managed to get the rigging removed and the wheels out. I found I needed considerable pressure to close them up to the axle shoulders, but the van now runs and does not derail - at the expense of a bit of the rigging! Better a usable van minus a little bit of hidden detail than a perfectly detailed hangar queen in the display case. Thanks to all the useful commenters above. 👍 

Edited March 29 by Artless Bodger
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