SECR 6w Goods Brake (SR Dia.1558)

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I think they were loosely based on MR brake vans that were down in South Wales and copied by at least one or two others.

 

Brecon & Merthyr?

 

 

Jason

The overall dimensions appear to be really close, but detail differences are things like horizontal to vertical planking, etc.  In the Mountford book, the photo is credited with  Midland C&W. I've not seen a photo of the Brecon & Merthyr vans. 

[BVMR21]

25 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

I've not seen a photo of the Brecon & Merthyr vans. 

Me neither, B&M stuff is rarer than Hen’s teeth in photographs, particularly in relation to goods traffic.

[Nick Holliday]

20 hours ago, BVMR21 said:

Me neither, B&M stuff is rarer than Hen’s teeth in photographs, particularly in relation to goods traffic.

There’s a clear picture of a B & M goods brake in H C Casserley’s David and Charles book, Railway History in Pictures, Wales and the Welsh Border Counties. Unfortunately for this topic it is an outside framed, double covered veranda four wheel type, with no apparent Midland or North Western lineage.

The Welsh Railways Research Circle, in their excellent Data Sheet describing how to produce models of Welsh wagons using various kits from other lines, do note that the B & M did purchase four four wheeled brakes from the Midland, but of the single open veranda type, as per the Slaters kit.

[tomparryharry]

Well, I could be barking up the wrong tree, TBH. That said, the underframe on the projected Rapido van, and the Barry van, look very similar.

[MartinM]

Any news on this? It was going to be April 2023 and I just wanted to know when my bank account will be hit for my purchases.... 😀

[rapidoandy]

Well they are almost here....

 

 

 

The factory have advised me that they should be finished in a couple of weeks and then its just a case of shipping them here. Looking likely to be sometime in May.

 

Many thanks,

 

Andy

 

[Michael Hodgson]

Patience!  You always have to wait for a lot of ordinary wagons before the brake van comes into view

[BVMR21]

These are looking more irresistible the further these get on through production, can't wait for my BR Black example, hopefully this will look good with some Mineral Wagons (heritage railway operation, just using it to stand in for a ZUV shark....)

If these are as good as the Iron Minks then hopefully we will get some more Rapido brake vans...

[MartinM]

Andy looking very good can't wait all we seem to be missing now is a SE&CR cattle wagon? I would look good in your train.....I know you like a challenge? 

Edited March 30, 2023 by MartinM

[Compound2632]

On 30/03/2023 at 16:38, MartinM said:

Andy looking very good can't wait all we seem to be missing now is a SE&CR cattle wagon? I would look good in your train.....I know you like a challenge? 

 

Of course the SECR wagons in that photo are types introduced during and built in quantity after the Great War, therefore the probability of seeing a SECR goods train made up exclusively of them is rather slim!

[Wickham Green too]

C'mon - look at the finish on them ..... that's the delivery run from Ashford Works !

[Ian Hargrave]

19 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Have you ever seen pictures of the real thing ? 🙃

Post deleted . Apologies. Incorrect 

[RapidoCorbs]

Bringing up the rear of this rake seen at Chatham MRC is one of the SECR-liveried brake vans.

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by RapidoCorbs

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, RapidoCorbs said:

On 21/04/2023 at 14:31, Wickham Green too said:

C'mon - look at the finish on them ..... that's the delivery run from Ashford Works !

[PeterStiles]

I'm interesting in what SECR loco Rapido are going to give us to pull these trains. There's been hint after hint of a possible SECR loco rolling off their production lines and I'd love to see something new to RTR, something that can be Wainwright green as well as through to BR days, something mixed-freight so we can couple up some birdcages, something beautiful.. That would also come out in 'N' to suite those wagons too. There's lots of potential choices...

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

I'm interesting in what SECR loco Rapido are going to give us to pull these trains. There's been hint after hint of a possible SECR loco rolling off their production lines and I'd love to see something new to RTR, something that can be Wainwright green as well as through to BR days, something mixed-freight so we can couple up some birdcages, something beautiful.. That would also come out in 'N' to suite those wagons too. There's lots of potential choices...

 

A Stirling O in immediately pre-SECR condition would be just the thing to go with the SER-condition brake.

 

The SER ought to be a RTR manufacturer's dream since about 75% of the loco fleet at 1899 can be covered with just four loco classes, a 4-4-0, a 0-6-0, a 0-4-4T, and a 0-6-0T.

[NHY 581]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

A Stirling O in immediately pre-SECR condition would be just the thing to go with the SER-condition brake.

 

The SER ought to be a RTR manufacturer's dream since about 75% of the loco fleet at 1899 can be covered with just four loco classes, a 4-4-0, a 0-6-0, a 0-4-4T, and a 0-6-0T.

 

Definitely an 0, Stirling cab or later variations thereof. A Q or an R 0.4.4t would be jolly good or an R or R1 0.6.0t would make good commercial sense with lots of possibilities. 

 

However, to cover the period pre WW1 we need some earlier wagons. Current Rapido offerings, with the exception of the break/brake vans, post date the Wainwright green liveries. 

 

Rob

 

 

[SRman]

14 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Definitely an 0, Stirling cab or later variations thereof. A Q or an R 0.4.4t would be jolly good or an R or R1 0.6.0t would make good commercial sense with lots of possibilities. 

 

However, to cover the period pre WW1 we need some earlier wagons. Current Rapido offerings, with the exception of the break/brake vans, post date the Wainwright green liveries. 

 

Rob

 

 

 

I use a bit of modeller's licence to run the later wagon types with the green locos, but I agree we need some later loco liveries and earlier wagon types and liveries to get things right, i.e. the ability to run the correct locos and wagons in the correct period liveries together in the same train.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, NHY 581 said:

... A Q or an R 0.4.4t would be jolly good or an R or R1 0.6.0t ...

If we're talking South Eastern Railway, you can count out the R 0-4-4T - as it was London Chatham & Dover - and the R1 0-6-0T - as it came along in S.E.C.R. days ........................................... but, yes, they'd all be welcome !

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

If we're talking South Eastern Railway:

 

What I had in mind was, in alphabetical order:

• Class F 4-4-0, 88 built 1883-1898, of which 76 rebuilt to Class F1 1903-19; all the 12 unrebuilt engines passed to the Southern with the last withdrawal in 1930; the last F1 went in 1949. 
• Class O 0-6-0, 122 built 1878-1899, of which 58 were rebuilt to Class O1 1903-1927; the last unrebuilt engine was withdrawn in 1932 and the last O1 in 1961. A further complication is the reboilering of unrebuilt engines from 1900, which did change their appearance. On the credit size, one pretty much gets a H&B Class B 0-6-0 for free.
• Class Q 0-4-4T, 118 built 1881-1897, of which 55 rebuilt to Class Q1 1903-1919; the last unrebuilt engine was withdrawn in 1929 with the last rebuilt engine the following year, victims, I assume, of expanding electrification.
• Class R 0-6-0T, 25 built 1888-1898, of which 13 rebuilt to Class R1 in 1910-1922; the last unrebuilt engine was withdrawn in 1943 and the last rebuilt engine in 1960.

Classes F, O, and Q were more numerous than their SE&CR successors, Classes D, C, and H, and much more numerous than their LC&DR contemporaries (the LC&DR being a rather smaller company all round anyway). Stirling had brought the South Eastern closer to locomotive fleet standardisation than any other company in the nineteenth century.

 

Of course the snag for any would-be RTR manufacturer is the rebuilding programme for all four classes in SE&CR days. This is why I would advocate the production of an entire range of locomotives, carriages, and wagons suitable for the SER in the 1890s, rather than trying to be all things to all men.  

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

... the snag for any would-be RTR manufacturer is the rebuilding programme for all four classes in SE&CR days. ...

Two snags - two rebuilding programmes !

 

.... and don't forget Stirling bookended his production with the A & B classes - the latter more numerous than his Rs.

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

.... and don't forget Stirling bookended his production with the A & B classes - the latter more numerous than his Rs.

 

For the Dover road chiefly. The Fs were the general-purpose engines.

 

My post was of course somewhat tongue in cheek and rather driven by the dream of a layout based on the stretch of line between Loddon Bridge and Earley, on the Reading line. (L&SWR workings too, of course,)

[rembrow]

Rails have posted on their website today, that Rapido are due to receive the SECR brake vans into stock, shortly, including their single veranda option. 

[BVMR21]

Rapido did provide an update on FB earlier with some pictures, including one of the BR Engineers Black liveried example.

[RapidoCorbs]

Hopefully arriving any day now!