BR (SR) BY Van

[Steamport Southport]

40 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The interiors would certainly need to be cleaned to remove the dung.

Who would clean the exteriors - the grooms, goods porters?

Where and when would they do this - in a goods yard, from a loading platform?

Would this be buckets and brooms, or would they be hosed?

 

They were "special" passenger stock and usually travelled by express or in a train consisting mostly of other horse boxes when going to a meet. Horse boxes were for racehorses and high ranking military horses only (cavalry). They didn't carry ordinary horses, those went by cattle wagon.

 

Never seen a photo of a dirty one apart from a few life expired pre-grouping ones coming up for scrapping.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/129-horse-race-traffic

 

So if you are modelling horse boxes go easy on the weathering. Some did last until the 1970s, just. Good footage of a train of them going to Prince Charles Investiture in 1969 carrying the horses of the Household Cavalry somewhere.

 

 

Jason

[Simon Lee]

19 hours ago, Darius43 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Nice work there, having spent a good part of my early railway career unloading and later shunting parcels vans, they have a special place in my memories, which your efforts have stirred and inspired me to get the unbuilt kit box out. 

 

Just one observation, a few chalked destination and comments would set the job off to perfection.

[Asterix2012]

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

They were "special" passenger stock and usually travelled by express or in a train consisting mostly of other horse boxes when going to a meet. Horse boxes were for racehorses and high ranking military horses only (cavalry). They didn't carry ordinary horses, those went by cattle wagon.

 

Never seen a photo of a dirty one apart from a few life expired pre-grouping ones coming up for scrapping.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/129-horse-race-traffic

 

So if you are modelling horse boxes go easy on the weathering. Some did last until the 1970s, just. Good footage of a train of them going to Prince Charles Investiture in 1969 carrying the horses of the Household Cavalry somewhere.

 

 

Jason

Would limewash have been used to clean them, as with cattle trucks?

[Fat Controller]

6 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

Would limewash have been used to clean them, as with cattle trucks?

Not since the 1920s or theres-about.

[Cwmtwrch]

7 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

Would limewash have been used to clean them, as with cattle trucks?

Limewash ceased to be used circa 1927 for animal welfare reasons; thereafter disinfectant was used. The GWR General Appendix of 1936 give very similar instructions for disinfecting Horse Boxes, SCVs and cattle wagons, so presumably they were also similar in earlier days, but I don't have any instructions from that era.

 

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

They were "special" passenger stock and usually travelled by express or in a train consisting mostly of other horse boxes when going to a meet. Horse boxes were for racehorses and high ranking military horses only (cavalry). They didn't carry ordinary horses, those went by cattle wagon.

Infantry officers of field rank [captains and above, I think] also rode horses until the army went fully mechanised in the 1930s. Even after that, military horses were used for formal parades [and still are] and some officers kept their own horses, used for hunting or riding in point to points, as did many civilians, and these would all have travelled in HBs as well.

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Simon Lee said:

Nice work there, having spent a good part of my early railway career unloading and later shunting parcels vans, they have a special place in my memories, which your efforts have stirred and inspired me to get the unbuilt kit box out. 

 

Just one observation, a few chalked destination and comments would set the job off to perfection.

 

At the risk of opening up old wounds, both Railtec and CCT do nice sheets of chalk markings.

 

Mike.

[Darius43]

2 hours ago, Simon Lee said:

Nice work there, having spent a good part of my early railway career unloading and later shunting parcels vans, they have a special place in my memories, which your efforts have stirred and inspired me to get the unbuilt kit box out. 

 

Just one observation, a few chalked destination and comments would set the job off to perfection.

You are absolutely right.  I plan to add random labels using bits of white decal sheet.  
 

I have some white ink and a pen to add chalk markings - inspired by Phil Parker in one of the BRM TV episodes.  The plan is to practice on a piece of blue painted plasticard first.

 

If that fails there is always Railtec…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Limewash ceased to be used circa 1927 for animal welfare reasons; thereafter disinfectant was used. The GWR General Appendix of 1936 give very similar instructions for disinfecting Horse Boxes, SCVs and cattle wagons, so presumably they were also similar in earlier days, but I don't have any instructions from that era.

 

Infantry officers of field rank [captains and above, I think] also rode horses until the army went fully mechanised in the 1930s. Even after that, military horses were used for formal parades [and still are] and some officers kept their own horses, used for hunting or riding in point to points, as did many civilians, and these would all have travelled in HBs as well.

 

 

My wife's late step-father had what Studs Terkel called a 'Good War'. After training (both Drill and Driving), he was sent to what was then Palestine. His job was driving the Army vet's mobile surgery around the area to maintain the few horses still in use; he didn't hear a gun fired in anger throughout the whole war.

[Halvarras]

20 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

There was another shot of either a GUV,or a BG, in the same livery, further along.

 

I've had a look at JT's 1970 to 1974 albums on Flickr (via 53A Models) and the first few pages of the British Rail collection but can't find that one - however would you be referring to the Mk 1 lined maroon GUVs which carried 'PARCELS EXPRESS' lettering top n tailed by BR arrow logos, as modelled by Bachmann? The lettering and logos on those were cream/straw, whereas on W94822 these were in Rail Alphabet white style as used and positioned on BR blue CCTs, except that the inclusion of the word 'Rail' makes this CCT even more unusual. The 'W' number prefix is also white. The photo can be found in the 1971 collection (tried posting a link twice, failed twice). It also appears behind D822 in 'The Book of the Warships' (Irwell Press).

 

The trawl reminded me that Brute Trolley Carrier E85000 would make a good first semi-scratchbuilding project using plasticard and an old Mark 1 coach - flat sides with just six small windows, set into the doors. @hmrspaul's website has some useful photos too. But it was only in traffic 1970-82. I recall seeing it at Didcot and Banbury back in the day...... Perhaps Darius would like to add this to the parcels van test train he's assembling for the double-Railroad-motored Tri-ang-Hornby EE Type 3 he put together last year....got enough yet Darius, or are there another six coming by next Tuesday?!😃

[Darius43]

44 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

...got enough yet Darius, or are there another six coming by next Tuesday?!😃

I’ll see what I can do…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

4 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

I’ll see what I can do…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

 

 

Slacker!!!

 

Mike.

[Darius43]

First practice applying chalk markings with pen and white ink.

 

 

Encouraging but more practice required to not push down too much with the nib.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Enterprisingwestern]

5 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

First practice applying chalk markings with pen and white ink.

 

 

Encouraging but more practice required to not push down too much with the nib.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Damn site finer than I could manage, but, you can tell they're all written with the same hand, but again, does it matter?

 

Mike.

[Darius43]

12 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Damn site finer than I could manage, but, you can tell they're all written with the same hand, but again, does it matter?

 

Mike.

Perhaps a stiff drink between each application would disguise the handwriting…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

I've had a look at JT's 1970 to 1974 albums on Flickr (via 53A Models) and the first few pages of the British Rail collection but can't find that one - however would you be referring to the Mk 1 lined maroon GUVs which carried 'PARCELS EXPRESS' lettering top n tailed by BR arrow logos, as modelled by Bachmann? The lettering and logos on those were cream/straw, whereas on W94822 these were in Rail Alphabet white style as used and positioned on BR blue CCTs, except that the inclusion of the word 'Rail' makes this CCT even more unusual. The 'W' number prefix is also white. The photo can be found in the 1971 collection (tried posting a link twice, failed twice). It also appears behind D822 in 'The Book of the Warships' (Irwell Press).

 

The trawl reminded me that Brute Trolley Carrier E85000 would make a good first semi-scratchbuilding project using plasticard and an old Mark 1 coach - flat sides with just six small windows, set into the doors. @hmrspaul's website has some useful photos too. But it was only in traffic 1970-82. I recall seeing it at Didcot and Banbury back in the day...... Perhaps Darius would like to add this to the parcels van test train he's assembling for the double-Railroad-motored Tri-ang-Hornby EE Type 3 he put together last year....got enough yet Darius, or are there another six coming by next Tuesday?!😃

That unique BRUTE carrier took traffic from the mail-order firm, Kaleidiscope to Coventry, whence it was transhipped on to WCML parcels trains.

The maroon 'Express Parcels'' van appeared towards the end of the section.

[Enterprisingwestern]

20 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

Perhaps a stiff drink between each application would disguise the handwriting…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Well, its what "improves" my modelling!

 

Mike.

[John Isherwood]

3 hours ago, Darius43 said:

Perhaps a stiff drink between each application would disguise the handwriting…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Nice work - but I would be wary of the unpredictable results of partial inhebriation!

 

When I used the pen and ink method, I found it essential to copy prototypical images in order to ensure variety in writing styles.

 

When it came to designing transfer markings, I found the huge number of different fonts available a boon in varying styles.

 

John Isherwood.

[Darius43]

15 hours ago, Darius43 said:

Perhaps a stiff drink between each application would disguise the handwriting…

For the avoidance of doubt, I wasn’t really intending to use this technique…

 

I plan to look at Paul Bartlett’s photo site and others for inspiration.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[45125]

8 hours ago, Darius43 said:

For the avoidance of doubt, I wasn’t really intending to use this technique…

 

I plan to look at Paul Bartlett’s photo site and others for inspiration.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Looks good, chalk marks also came in lower case, along with Mail, Parcels, Transfer etc...... Plus smudges, crossing outs and stanox codes.

 

Al Taylor

[Darius43]

Had a go - concede the “handwriting” is the “same” but that’s 30+ years of engineering drawing to fight against.

 

 

 

 

 

One bonus is when I make a complete Horlicks, I can turn it into a rubbing out.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

This is useful for blank labels, and can be distressed quite easily;

 

https://mad.es/inicio/19372-corrector-cinta-tipp-ex-pocket-mouse-2000000023045.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6pOTBhCTARIsAHF23fJazd3mb7aQSlq5FlTwVYG1T_0SwY1EyZFzhpFXVpym9PJhh3pg5qMaAvjcEALw_wcB

 

Mike.

[Cwmtwrch]

What happened to the window grilles in the BY and the 'GUARD' on the door? To be added later?

[Darius43]

12 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

What happened to the window grilles in the BY and the 'GUARD' on the door? To be added later?

For the BY van, I took my inspiration from the example on this website.

 

You could ask them the same question…

 

I plan to give it a further dose of weathering to really obscure the transparency of the windows.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Edited April 24, 2022 by Darius43

[Darius43]

Lima LMS GUV repainted into BR blue.  Plus new wheels, couplings, cleaned up undergibbons, glazing and glazing bars.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[John Isherwood]

42 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

Lima LMS GUV repainted into BR blue.  Plus new wheels, couplings, cleaned up undergibbons, glazing and glazing bars.

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

As I recall, there was a higher roof variant of the same prototype vehicle; used for theatrical scenery.

 

I am sure that I modelled it years ago - I'll see if I can find it.

 

CJI.