Steamport Southport Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 40 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said: The interiors would certainly need to be cleaned to remove the dung. Who would clean the exteriors - the grooms, goods porters? Where and when would they do this - in a goods yard, from a loading platform? Would this be buckets and brooms, or would they be hosed? They were "special" passenger stock and usually travelled by express or in a train consisting mostly of other horse boxes when going to a meet. Horse boxes were for racehorses and high ranking military horses only (cavalry). They didn't carry ordinary horses, those went by cattle wagon. Never seen a photo of a dirty one apart from a few life expired pre-grouping ones coming up for scrapping. https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/129-horse-race-traffic So if you are modelling horse boxes go easy on the weathering. Some did last until the 1970s, just. Good footage of a train of them going to Prince Charles Investiture in 1969 carrying the horses of the Household Cavalry somewhere. Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Simon Lee Posted April 23, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2022 19 hours ago, Darius43 said: Cheers Darius Nice work there, having spent a good part of my early railway career unloading and later shunting parcels vans, they have a special place in my memories, which your efforts have stirred and inspired me to get the unbuilt kit box out. Just one observation, a few chalked destination and comments would set the job off to perfection. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Asterix2012 Posted April 23, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2022 10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: They were "special" passenger stock and usually travelled by express or in a train consisting mostly of other horse boxes when going to a meet. Horse boxes were for racehorses and high ranking military horses only (cavalry). They didn't carry ordinary horses, those went by cattle wagon. Never seen a photo of a dirty one apart from a few life expired pre-grouping ones coming up for scrapping. https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/129-horse-race-traffic So if you are modelling horse boxes go easy on the weathering. Some did last until the 1970s, just. Good footage of a train of them going to Prince Charles Investiture in 1969 carrying the horses of the Household Cavalry somewhere. Jason Would limewash have been used to clean them, as with cattle trucks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said: Would limewash have been used to clean them, as with cattle trucks? Not since the 1920s or theres-about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwmtwrch Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said: Would limewash have been used to clean them, as with cattle trucks? Limewash ceased to be used circa 1927 for animal welfare reasons; thereafter disinfectant was used. The GWR General Appendix of 1936 give very similar instructions for disinfecting Horse Boxes, SCVs and cattle wagons, so presumably they were also similar in earlier days, but I don't have any instructions from that era. 10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: They were "special" passenger stock and usually travelled by express or in a train consisting mostly of other horse boxes when going to a meet. Horse boxes were for racehorses and high ranking military horses only (cavalry). They didn't carry ordinary horses, those went by cattle wagon. Infantry officers of field rank [captains and above, I think] also rode horses until the army went fully mechanised in the 1930s. Even after that, military horses were used for formal parades [and still are] and some officers kept their own horses, used for hunting or riding in point to points, as did many civilians, and these would all have travelled in HBs as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 23, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Simon Lee said: Nice work there, having spent a good part of my early railway career unloading and later shunting parcels vans, they have a special place in my memories, which your efforts have stirred and inspired me to get the unbuilt kit box out. Just one observation, a few chalked destination and comments would set the job off to perfection. At the risk of opening up old wounds, both Railtec and CCT do nice sheets of chalk markings. Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted April 23, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Simon Lee said: Nice work there, having spent a good part of my early railway career unloading and later shunting parcels vans, they have a special place in my memories, which your efforts have stirred and inspired me to get the unbuilt kit box out. Just one observation, a few chalked destination and comments would set the job off to perfection. You are absolutely right. I plan to add random labels using bits of white decal sheet. I have some white ink and a pen to add chalk markings - inspired by Phil Parker in one of the BRM TV episodes. The plan is to practice on a piece of blue painted plasticard first. If that fails there is always Railtec… Cheers Darius 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Cwmtwrch said: Limewash ceased to be used circa 1927 for animal welfare reasons; thereafter disinfectant was used. The GWR General Appendix of 1936 give very similar instructions for disinfecting Horse Boxes, SCVs and cattle wagons, so presumably they were also similar in earlier days, but I don't have any instructions from that era. Infantry officers of field rank [captains and above, I think] also rode horses until the army went fully mechanised in the 1930s. Even after that, military horses were used for formal parades [and still are] and some officers kept their own horses, used for hunting or riding in point to points, as did many civilians, and these would all have travelled in HBs as well. My wife's late step-father had what Studs Terkel called a 'Good War'. After training (both Drill and Driving), he was sent to what was then Palestine. His job was driving the Army vet's mobile surgery around the area to maintain the few horses still in use; he didn't hear a gun fired in anger throughout the whole war. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 20 hours ago, Fat Controller said: There was another shot of either a GUV,or a BG, in the same livery, further along. I've had a look at JT's 1970 to 1974 albums on Flickr (via 53A Models) and the first few pages of the British Rail collection but can't find that one - however would you be referring to the Mk 1 lined maroon GUVs which carried 'PARCELS EXPRESS' lettering top n tailed by BR arrow logos, as modelled by Bachmann? The lettering and logos on those were cream/straw, whereas on W94822 these were in Rail Alphabet white style as used and positioned on BR blue CCTs, except that the inclusion of the word 'Rail' makes this CCT even more unusual. The 'W' number prefix is also white. The photo can be found in the 1971 collection (tried posting a link twice, failed twice). It also appears behind D822 in 'The Book of the Warships' (Irwell Press). The trawl reminded me that Brute Trolley Carrier E85000 would make a good first semi-scratchbuilding project using plasticard and an old Mark 1 coach - flat sides with just six small windows, set into the doors. @hmrspaul's website has some useful photos too. But it was only in traffic 1970-82. I recall seeing it at Didcot and Banbury back in the day...... Perhaps Darius would like to add this to the parcels van test train he's assembling for the double-Railroad-motored Tri-ang-Hornby EE Type 3 he put together last year....got enough yet Darius, or are there another six coming by next Tuesday?!😃 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted April 23, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2022 44 minutes ago, Halvarras said: ...got enough yet Darius, or are there another six coming by next Tuesday?!😃 I’ll see what I can do… Cheers Darius 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 23, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, Darius43 said: I’ll see what I can do… Cheers Darius Slacker!!! Mike. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted April 23, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2022 First practice applying chalk markings with pen and white ink. Encouraging but more practice required to not push down too much with the nib. Cheers Darius 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 23, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, Darius43 said: First practice applying chalk markings with pen and white ink. Encouraging but more practice required to not push down too much with the nib. Cheers Darius Damn site finer than I could manage, but, you can tell they're all written with the same hand, but again, does it matter? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted April 23, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Damn site finer than I could manage, but, you can tell they're all written with the same hand, but again, does it matter? Mike. Perhaps a stiff drink between each application would disguise the handwriting… Cheers Darius 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Halvarras said: I've had a look at JT's 1970 to 1974 albums on Flickr (via 53A Models) and the first few pages of the British Rail collection but can't find that one - however would you be referring to the Mk 1 lined maroon GUVs which carried 'PARCELS EXPRESS' lettering top n tailed by BR arrow logos, as modelled by Bachmann? The lettering and logos on those were cream/straw, whereas on W94822 these were in Rail Alphabet white style as used and positioned on BR blue CCTs, except that the inclusion of the word 'Rail' makes this CCT even more unusual. The 'W' number prefix is also white. The photo can be found in the 1971 collection (tried posting a link twice, failed twice). It also appears behind D822 in 'The Book of the Warships' (Irwell Press). The trawl reminded me that Brute Trolley Carrier E85000 would make a good first semi-scratchbuilding project using plasticard and an old Mark 1 coach - flat sides with just six small windows, set into the doors. @hmrspaul's website has some useful photos too. But it was only in traffic 1970-82. I recall seeing it at Didcot and Banbury back in the day...... Perhaps Darius would like to add this to the parcels van test train he's assembling for the double-Railroad-motored Tri-ang-Hornby EE Type 3 he put together last year....got enough yet Darius, or are there another six coming by next Tuesday?!😃 That unique BRUTE carrier took traffic from the mail-order firm, Kaleidiscope to Coventry, whence it was transhipped on to WCML parcels trains. The maroon 'Express Parcels'' van appeared towards the end of the section. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 23, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2022 20 minutes ago, Darius43 said: Perhaps a stiff drink between each application would disguise the handwriting… Cheers Darius Well, its what "improves" my modelling! Mike. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted April 23, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Darius43 said: Perhaps a stiff drink between each application would disguise the handwriting… Cheers Darius Nice work - but I would be wary of the unpredictable results of partial inhebriation! When I used the pen and ink method, I found it essential to copy prototypical images in order to ensure variety in writing styles. When it came to designing transfer markings, I found the huge number of different fonts available a boon in varying styles. John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted April 24, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2022 15 hours ago, Darius43 said: Perhaps a stiff drink between each application would disguise the handwriting… For the avoidance of doubt, I wasn’t really intending to use this technique… I plan to look at Paul Bartlett’s photo site and others for inspiration. Cheers Darius 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 8 hours ago, Darius43 said: For the avoidance of doubt, I wasn’t really intending to use this technique… I plan to look at Paul Bartlett’s photo site and others for inspiration. Cheers Darius Looks good, chalk marks also came in lower case, along with Mail, Parcels, Transfer etc...... Plus smudges, crossing outs and stanox codes. Al Taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted April 24, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2022 Had a go - concede the “handwriting” is the “same” but that’s 30+ years of engineering drawing to fight against. One bonus is when I make a complete Horlicks, I can turn it into a rubbing out. Cheers Darius 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 24, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2022 This is useful for blank labels, and can be distressed quite easily; https://mad.es/inicio/19372-corrector-cinta-tipp-ex-pocket-mouse-2000000023045.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6pOTBhCTARIsAHF23fJazd3mb7aQSlq5FlTwVYG1T_0SwY1EyZFzhpFXVpym9PJhh3pg5qMaAvjcEALw_wcB Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwmtwrch Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 What happened to the window grilles in the BY and the 'GUARD' on the door? To be added later? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted April 24, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said: What happened to the window grilles in the BY and the 'GUARD' on the door? To be added later? For the BY van, I took my inspiration from the example on this website. You could ask them the same question… I plan to give it a further dose of weathering to really obscure the transparency of the windows. Cheers Darius Edited April 24, 2022 by Darius43 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted April 29, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 29, 2022 Lima LMS GUV repainted into BR blue. Plus new wheels, couplings, cleaned up undergibbons, glazing and glazing bars. Cheers Darius 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted April 29, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2022 42 minutes ago, Darius43 said: Lima LMS GUV repainted into BR blue. Plus new wheels, couplings, cleaned up undergibbons, glazing and glazing bars. Cheers Darius As I recall, there was a higher roof variant of the same prototype vehicle; used for theatrical scenery. I am sure that I modelled it years ago - I'll see if I can find it. CJI. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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