Brassmasters

[micklner]

8 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 Unfortunately small claims court require the postal address of the party you are claiming against.  Back to square one.

Nothing at Companies House relating to Brassmasters Scale Models either .

 

Does'nt make you want to buy anything in future from them . I wont !!.

[JohnR]

It's clear that the packaging was inadequate to protect the etches when sent by RM. Thats surely Brassmaster's fault. I didnt get a clear sight of the packaging in the original picture, but it didnt look like it was marked "DO NOT BEND" or similar, in a way I've had things such as photos sent via RM in the past. 

 

Brassmasters should replace this, and improve their packaging and/or use an RM service that includes higher value compensation. 

[Amaziii]

To those who ordered the recent GER J17 from Brassmasters, you've got an inaccurate model, no matter the variant.

I have checked with several members of the GERS, along with comparing many photos available on the GERS website and Flickr, and even getting measurements from Barrow Hill Roundhouse's preserved G58, and there are several crucial components that are incorrectly depicted. I have contacted the designer of the kit, and he has given me several angles and orthographic views of his 3D file which has allowed me to reference it with drawings and photos.

I purchased an unsaturated version, and I have noticed a lot of BR modifications are wrongly included on it, which is incorrect since all the saturated G58s were converted to superheaters by 1932.

To very briefly go over the major details:

1. All variants have an extremely extended smokebox that was never on any version of the G58, saturated or superheated.
2. The middle sandboxes on the G58s were added in 1904, and the rear one was added in 1910, however this is not mentioned in any part of the instructions.

3. Incorrect sandboxes and caps, and washout plugs covers. 
4. Wrong type of cylinder cover. 


5. The smokebox is also oversized with an incorrect curve profile.
6. The "stages" or rings/steps between the smokebox wrapper and boiler are also incorrectly represented as only one large curve instead of two. 

 

Model:

GERS Drawing:

I think another big issue is that Brassmasters never provided a clear selection of which variation you could choose, and given that there are no photos of 2 out of the 3 variations on their website, the customer doesn't know what time period or version they are getting. Compare this to the recently released GWR 3150 class, where the first few pages are dedicated to the variations throughout their lifespan and which modifications are and aren't included in the kit. This allows the modeller to get a good idea of what they can select when deciding to model a specific time period or region. The instructions of the J17 fail to mention all of the in depth details of its lifespan, and simply labelling the kit as "saturated" or "superheated" on the website's description doesn't really give a great overview of the detail changes between each variation of G58s. 

I think that the transition to 3D printing was a great move by Brassmasters, as it is cheaper and allows for more detail to be shown through a simple print, but as their first kit, it falls short of the standards established by themselves for many years. I am currently working closely with the designer of the kit, and we hope to sort out everything soon. If you are unsatisfied with the dimensions and wish to get a replacement, email Brassmasters for an updated print. 

Cheers,

Julien.

Edited July 30 by Amaziii

[Amaziii]

Here is the most recent version of the saturated variant from David Barham. It's not quite perfect yet due to the incorrect profile and scale of the smokebox, but it shows that progress is being made on this. 

Recent (V5):

 

Edited July 30 by Amaziii

[Bucoops]

I think I saw your initial query on facebook about the kit? I missed how it progressed however. It's good to see the kit designer is re-visiting it.

[Amaziii]

6 hours ago, Bucoops said:

I think I saw your initial query on facebook about the kit? I missed how it progressed however. It's good to see the kit designer is re-visiting it.

I actually deleted that post due to hardly anyone believing that there was something wrong, which was slightly appalling since it was posted in the GER appreciation group of all places. I ended up doing my own research and purchasing drawings of it to be able to get a firm reference instead of relying on other people’s (lack of) input.

 

I’m glad that Mr. Barham is patient enough to redesign some of the parts, but I do wish that it was done properly on initial release rather than needing a customer to help out. The blame falls more on the Brassmasters team rather than Mr. Barham himself since they didn’t double check throughout the development stages and help him interpret the drawings.

Edited July 30 by Amaziii

[Crosland]

On 23/07/2024 at 23:08, Colin_McLeod said:

 Unfortunately small claims court require the postal address of the party you are claiming against.  Back to square one.

They must supply a full geographic address. Otherwise, how do you return faulty goods? I would be contacting their local trading standards, if such a thing still exists.

[John Isherwood]

1 minute ago, Crosland said:

They must supply a full geographic address. Otherwise, how do you return faulty goods? I would be contacting their local trading standards, if such a thing still exists.

 

It does seem a shame that a well-thought-of supplier such as Brassmasters chooses to tarnish its reputation because it finds customer interaction too much hassle.

 

CJI.

[Siberian Snooper]

I think it's due to them, being like us, getting old!

 

 

[stewartingram]

AS I am one who is partway through building the kit, I wish to be updated if possible. As it appears that the main body part (3D print) is being revised, I have a couple of questions.

1] If there is a new part, will I be able to get one.

2] What is the timescale? (I am in no particular rush).

 

Those questions may have been answered already by the look of things. It has been suggested that we contact Brassmasters; is this a tongue in cheek idea, or should I do this now, or wait? Are Brassmasters interested? And from that, I guess, will I expect to pay for a replacement?

Edited July 30 by stewartingram

[John Isherwood]

26 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I think it's due to them, being like us, getting old!

 

As a seventy-five-year-old proprietor of a small supply operation, I entirely refute that!

 

I am a one-man-band, but I usually achieve a by-return-of-post service; in the event of problems, they are resolved promptly with no quibbles.

 

If you choose to be a small supplier, you have to be committed to customer service - otherwise, give up and close down!

 

CJI,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[Amaziii]

10 hours ago, stewartingram said:

1] If there is a new part, will I be able to get one.

You likely will be able to. Mr. Barham confirmed that he will do a reprint for me, so he’ll likely do it for anyone.

 

10 hours ago, stewartingram said:

2] What is the timescale? (I am in no particular rush).

He is currently away for the week, but it might honestly be another 3-4 weeks… I’m not sure when every single kink will be fixed.

 

10 hours ago, stewartingram said:

It has been suggested that we contact Brassmasters; is this a tongue in cheek idea, or should I do this now, or wait? Are Brassmasters interested? And from that, I guess, will I expect to pay for a replacement?

Yes, you should contact them for a replacement. Email them whenever you are able to.

 

I don’t know if Brassmasters is willing to give out a new print to every single customer that bought a G58/J17, let alone if they’ll do it for free or not. I genuinely would hope that they would issue a replacement for free since they produced something wrong. We’ll see what Brassmasters’ response to this will be.

Edited July 31 by Amaziii

[Craigw]

57 minutes ago, Amaziii said:

I don’t know if Brassmasters is willing to give out a new print to every single customer that bought a G58/J17, let alone if they’ll do it for free or not. I genuinely would hope that they would issue a replacement for free since they produced something wrong. We’ll see what Brassmasters’ response to this will be.

 

From what you have raised in here it would seem that the issue is being addressed in some way or another. I am not sure that expecting a free replacement is reasonable though, a small supplier seems to be being held to a higher standard than most other suppliers.

 

Craig W

[Camperdown]

Some of the criticism of the GER J17 seems unduly harsh.  I'm not sure you can infer much from a large scale blowup of a small, outline drawing.  And as others have said, the issue seems be be being addressed by Brassmasters and David Barham.

 

All models are inaccurate to some degree, and just what steam locos looked like a century ago is subject to some interpretation.  Opinions may differ as to what details actually existed at the same time.  Really it all depends on what compromises you are willing to make.  To me, the bigger question is whether the finish of 3D prints can accurately reproduce a sharp edges and smooth surface of a metal structure.  I tend to think not, but again, opinions differ.

[John Isherwood]

15 hours ago, Camperdown said:

To me, the bigger question is whether the finish of 3D prints can accurately reproduce a sharp edges and smooth surface of a metal structure.  I tend to think not, but again, opinions differ.

 

Given the right printer, and someone who knows how to use it, 3D printing is capable of producing models that require zero preparation - I have quite a number; (not of my own design or production).

 

CJI.

[Captain Kernow]

5 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Given the right printer, and someone who knows how to use it, 3D printing is capable of producing models that require zero preparation - I have quite a number; (not of my own design or production).

 

CJI.

Quite right, John.

 

I would draw people's attention to the excellent products of two posters on this forum, @chuffinghell and @Harlequin.

 

[Bucoops]

8 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Quite right, John.

 

I would draw people's attention to the excellent products of two posters on this forum, @chuffinghell and @Harlequin.

 

 

And @billbedford.

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

Quite right, John.

 

I would draw people's attention to the excellent products of two posters on this forum, @chuffinghell and @Harlequin.

 

 

.... my experience has been of wagon prints, produced from Ironmink's designs - freely available on Thingiverse.

 

CJI.

[Camperdown]

An update:

 

As noted, the LSWR Drummond tender kit I bought from Brassmasters got damaged in the post.  As well as bent etchings, there was a second problem: the kit is listed as having two sets of axlebox/spring castings, but came with only one set.  I want to build the tender in early condition (to go behind a 700 class goods), and the early spring castings that I needed were missing.

 

Happily, both problems have now been resolved; I have received the missing castings and a new (unbent) set of etchings.  Many thanks to Tony Sheffield at Brassmasters for that.

 

Brassmasters seems to be organised as a partnership, and I think it's fair to say that the three partners have differing views on how to deal with complaints from the Great British Public.  One interesting fact that TS told me was that the castings (for the Drummond tender, anyway) were sourced from the late Adrian Swain at ABS.  So I would guess that when the business was bought from Martin Finney it came with large stocks of castings, and Brassmasters have made these available separately to run down inventory to more reasonable levels.  I suppose the more interesting question is who owns the masters to the castings?  I think I read that Guy Williams and Tony Reynalds both made masters for Martin Finney, so perhaps some of the masters passed to those gentlemen's heirs?

 

Regardless of that, it's great that the Martin Finney kits are still available (with the odd hitch), and the range is still being expanded.  One would hate for them to go the way of the Malcolm Mitchell kits, for example.  Anyway, thanks again to Brassmasters.