Brassmasters

[John Isherwood]

9 minutes ago, robmanchester said:

If somebody gets a faulty part from Brassmasters ( or another supplier ) that needs to be returned then they will have to provide an address in order that it can be sent back for replacement. Brassmasters state that they are a part-time hobby business which is fine and applies to quite a lot of our wonderful specialist suppliers. It isn't unreasonable to have a contact address when you may be spending hunders or even thousands of pounds with them though.

 

Suppliers that take credit cards as payment but don't accept Paypal sometimes worry me a bit - I understand the reason cited is that Paypal charge more in fees than CC companies. That isn't a dig at Brassmasters who have a large presence in the Hobby ( they only take Paypal for non-UK transactions ) but I know many people who don't like putting credit and debit card numbers directly into suppliers web-sites. A well known supplier told me a few years ago that he didn't take Paypal because the (Paypal)refund policy was so biased towards the buyer that he would get people cancelling orders if items went out of stock or special orders were not delivered by the quoted date.

 

Lack of response from "small" suppliers can be annoying when you send an email to ask questions. Some of them are holding down full time jobs and supplying us with the parts we desire so it is difficult to be too critical.

 

Rob

 

 

If one decides to take money from customers who order goods that one offers for sale, one takes on the responsibility of dealing with the correspondence that ensues.

 

Making such correspondence difficult to persue is NOT a justifiable way of avoiding the 'nuisance' of that responsibility - it comes with the territory.

 

CJI.

(Who is himself a small trader).

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

7 hours ago, Wheatley said:

I presume there are fewer people buying detailing kits, which is either an indication of how good RTR has got since they started (the forthcoming Hornby Black 5 addresses most of the shortcomings the BM kit addressed) or how lazy RTR buyers have become. The continuing development of Easi-Chass would suggest the former. No-one sells a conversion kit to beat a Lima 33 into a 26 or 27 anymore either, we all just bought the Heljan ones instead.  

 

Most of us stopped doing that when Lima saw sense and did them themselves!

 

However I think it was more the fact that Craftsman who was the main supplier of detailing parts for RTR diesels disappeared overnight and never reappeared that was the problem.

 

How many people would buy Craftsman kits and parts? I know I would and the prices they sell for on eBay suggests I'm not alone.

 

 

Jason

[Enfys_Rainbow]

I knew I should have ordered some Class 08 coupling rods several months ago...my own fault I suppose!

[Steamport Southport]

5 hours ago, Crosland said:

 

On-line selling rules are in addition to distance selling rules, see https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses

 

I didn't realise you couldn't order online. How do you order? The distance selling rules still requite them to provide the address before you place the order.

 

https://www.brassmasters.co.uk/Downloads/BM price list 24-01-01.pdf

 

 

An up to date price list is virtually the first thing you see on the website!

 

 

Jason

[Jol Wilkinson]

12 hours ago, robmanchester said:

 

Lack of response from "small" suppliers can be annoying when you send an email to ask questions. Some of them are holding down full time jobs and supplying us with the parts we desire so it is difficult to be too critical.

 

Rob

 

 

From the experience of one Smaller Supplier that I know well, it appears that people often don't look at website information about ordering, payment, deliveries,  etc. and send emails asking for that very information. So time is wasted dealing with those enquires (some of which then repeatedly come back with further questions on the same topics) hence delaying more relevant questions from other regular or potential customers. An example of people's inability to RTFM?

[John Isherwood]

1 minute ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

From the experience of one Smaller Supplier that I know well, it appears that people often don't look at website information about ordering, payment, deliveries,  etc. and send emails asking for that very information. So time is wasted dealing with those enquires (some of which then repeatedly come back with further questions on the same topics) hence delaying more relevant questions from other regular or potential customers. An example of people's inability to RTFM?

 

I can verify that this is true - but there is an unfailing solution.

 

My standard response to such lazy enquiries is "Full details of sheet content, pricing, ordering and payment can be found on the Cambridge Custom Transfers website".

 

Gets the point over without being rude!

 

CJI.

[Crosland]

On 19/01/2024 at 21:01, robmanchester said:

It isn't unreasonable to have a contact address when you may be spending hunders or even thousands of pounds with them though.

 

It's not only unreasonable not to have a contact address, but most likely against the law.

 

On 19/01/2024 at 21:01, robmanchester said:

Suppliers that take credit cards as payment but don't accept Paypal sometimes worry me a bit - I understand the reason cited is that Paypal charge more in fees than CC companies.

 

I'm thinking of switching to Stripe, for this reason, but will probably offer both. A lot of payment processor require a sizeable volume before they beat PayPal (or at least did last time I checked).

 

On 19/01/2024 at 21:01, robmanchester said:

I know many people who don't like putting credit and debit card numbers directly into suppliers web-sites.

 

With a small hobby supplier you are most unlikely to be entering details into their website. The rules around security, etc., and the cost of developing the site, would be too onerous for a small cottage industry. I would be VERY worried if I wasn't redirected to one of the well-known payment processors. Even major on-line retailers often use the likes of World Pay, etc.

 

On 19/01/2024 at 22:04, Steamport Southport said:

An up to date price list is virtually the first thing you see on the website!

And that price list should have a contact address. The only way around this is if they provide the contact address before they take your order, which would be a bit of a faff with the required to-and-fro.

[John Isherwood]

6 minutes ago, Crosland said:

 

It's not only unreasonable not to have a contact address, but most likely against the law.

 

 

I'm thinking of switching to Stripe, for this reason, but will probably offer both. A lot of payment processor require a sizeable volume before they beat PayPal (or at least did last time I checked).

 

 

With a small hobby supplier you are most unlikely to be entering details into their website. The rules around security, etc., and the cost of developing the site, would be too onerous for a small cottage industry. I would be VERY worried if I wasn't redirected to one of the well-known payment processors. Even major on-line retailers often use the likes of World Pay, etc.

 

And that price list should have a contact address. The only way around this is if they provide the contact address before they take your order, which would be a bit of a faff with the required to-and-fro.

 

What I take away from this thread is that Brassmasters are finding the customer correspondence side of their business too onerous - hence their withdrawal from the mail-order supply of small components.

 

As a small trader myself, I fully understand that customer correspondence can be very time-consuming - hence the fact that I do not publicise a phone number. Mail and email correspondence can be handled in a more regulated manner than randomly-timed phone calls.

 

However, I frankly think that it is unethical, not to say off-putting, not to provide an address for correspondence. If the enquirer is prepared to write, and await a response, their enquiry is likely to be of consequence.

 

At the end of the day, if you trade you require customers - and that can at times mean inconvenient correspondence, but it goes with the territory.

 

CJI,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[micklner]

Postal address at the bottom of the page.

 

https://www.brassmasters.co.uk/how_to_buy.htm

 

Alan Gibson only use a P.O Box as well.

[41516]

11 hours ago, micklner said:

Postal address at the bottom of the page.

 

https://www.brassmasters.co.uk/how_to_buy.htm

 

It was, but the update on the main page says:

 

"Also, we are closing our PO Box with immediate effect and will therefore only be able to accept orders via email."

[Crosland]

12 hours ago, micklner said:

Postal address at the bottom of the page.

 

https://www.brassmasters.co.uk/how_to_buy.htm

 

Hmm. It's still there, despite saying it has been withdrawn.

 

Having read this page it seems you have to first e-mail your requirements. It may be they provide their full address in reply, before accepting the order, in which case they are probably compliant.

 

 

12 hours ago, micklner said:

 

Alan Gibson only use a P.O Box as well.

 

A PO Box is not sufficient. It must be a full geographic address.

 

As a small trader myself it irritates when others do not follow the legal requirements. I see it all too often. One fairly well-known supplier was claiming to be a Ltd company when they weren't. Again, that was illegal. I won't name them as I believe it's fixed now.

[matchmaker]

On 21/01/2024 at 21:11, micklner said:

Postal address at the bottom of the page.

 

https://www.brassmasters.co.uk/how_to_buy.htm

 

Alan Gibson only use a P.O Box as well.

So do Wizard.

[Camperdown]

I think we can all agree that the Martin Finney kits are a top-notch premium product.  Martin used to pack the kits in a stout (green) cardboard box.  Brassmasters sell the kits in a plastic bag, which for mail order sales is parked in a padded envelope with a scrap of hardboard.  The photo shows how my Drummond tender arrived --- with the hardboard broken and the etchings bent.

 

Brassmasters' reply when I told them is "Unfortunately that isn’t sufficient to make a claim from the Royal Mail  – you can straighten the bends of the etches by carefully bending them".

 

I'm aware that responsibility for the safe arrival of mail order kits lies entirely with Brassmasters.  Still, I'm reluctant to press this further as I do want the kit and the damage doesn't look terminal.  And Brassmasters are providing a service to the hobby by making the Finney kits available, and even extending the range.

 

So the only reason for raising this on a public forum is just to make a plea:  Please Brassmasters, could you pack your kits in something stronger, or else find a more careful courier.

 

Thank you. 

[John Isherwood]

5 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

I think we can all agree that the Martin Finney kits are a top-notch premium product.  Martin used to pack the kits in a stout (green) cardboard box.  Brassmasters sell the kits in a plastic bag, which for mail order sales is parked in a padded envelope with a scrap of hardboard.  The photo shows how my Drummond tender arrived --- with the hardboard broken and the etchings bent.

 

Brassmasters' reply when I told them is "Unfortunately that isn’t sufficient to make a claim from the Royal Mail  – you can straighten the bends of the etches by carefully bending them".

 

I'm aware that responsibility for the safe arrival of mail order kits lies entirely with Brassmasters.  Still, I'm reluctant to press this further as I do want the kit and the damage doesn't look terminal.  And Brassmasters are providing a service to the hobby by making the Finney kits available, and even extending the range.

 

So the only reason for raising this on a public forum is just to make a plea:  Please Brassmasters, could you pack your kits in something stronger, or else find a more careful courier.

 

Thank you. 

 

I think that Brassmasters' response is a case of 'can't be bothered'.

 

I had a very similar situation with a package of transfers sent to Australia which arrived severely water-damaged.

 

Fortunately, I had (expensively) insured the package for its value of £200. It took two months - and RM will try to block you at every turn - but the insured value is being refunded.

 

I suspect that your package was not insured by Brassmasters - hence their reluctance to get involved.

 

Stick to your guns - you paid for a pristine kit, not a damaged one - and bends and dings in brass are VERY difficult to remove.

 

At the end of the day, Brassmasters failed to pack the item properly - the fault is theirs.

 

CJI.

[micklner]

How did you pay for the item ?. Claim on your Credit Card, Paypal are even better. Royal Mail if they were used are a waste of time, they only offer £20 compensation for Recorded  Delievery on many services.

 

As already said Brassmasters should be replacing the damaged goods end off. Almost impossible to correct most of the damage in the photos. Very poor attitude and they are responsible as suppliers etc etc.

[stewartingram]

When I purchased the latest J17 kit from Brassmasters, it came in a quite sturdy flat (well 1"tall) cardboard box. All was well. Perhaps they have changed their packaging?

[Blandford1969]

The LSWR 6 wheel tenders are nice. Hopefully you paid on credit card and you can then make a claim that way. It does not help you as you have a kit that is damaged. 

[John Isherwood]

6 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

The LSWR 6 wheel tenders are nice. Hopefully you paid on credit card and you can then make a claim that way. It does not help you as you have a kit that is damaged. 

 

I really don't know why we are debating this!

 

If you ordered a washing machine and it arrived damaged, would you shrug your shoulders and make the best of it?

 

Goods supplied not fit for purpose; demand a replacement and - BRASSMASTERS! - shoulder your legal responsibilites and stop hiding behind the RM! This is an issue between Brassmasters and the RM - plain and simple.

 

It was clear which way Brassmasters was going when they announced that supplying small orders was too much trouble.

 

CJI.

[Camperdown]

Brassmasters website says:

 

"We can take credit card payments directly at exhibitions, but we can only take payments remotely using an iZettle secure invoice. This will be sent to your email address. When you receive the invoice you enter your card details and send the payment to us via the secure iZettle system.

 

Email us with your order so that we can check the stock availability and send you the invoice."

 

But when I emailed asking if the kit was in stock, Brassmasters replied:

 

"Thanks for your email The 3500 tender kit is in stock Please send payment of £76.50 to us at Brassmasters Scale Models - Sort code **** - Account number ***"

 

So I was only offered the option of paying by bank transfer. 

 

I'm not sure if a £70 etched kit counts as a small order.  I suppose it depends on your perspective.

 

stewartingram:  Everything was contained in a rather flimsy polythene bag, sealed with a short length of tape.  I would post a photo, but I'm having phone issues.  The plastic bag was placed in a padded envelope, stiffened with scrappy bit of hardboard, which broke in transit.

 

Have to say I'm not too pleased about this, nor about Brassmasters offhand dismissal.

[micklner]

Small Claims County Court as a last resort. Very sad if Brassmasters do not sort this out the correct way, by simply sending another kit.

 

As already said Royal Mail will only offer £20.

Edited July 22 by micklner

[chris p bacon]

I'm surprised at Brassmasters, those kinks in the etches will not come out and considering it is the frames it's ridiculous to suggest. Whether they like it or not Brassmasters chose the Royal Mail as the delivery method and have to shoulder the responsibility of replacing the etches. It would be interesting to know how this is resolved.

 

The minimum that etches should be in for postage is a stout cardboard box. I supply loco frames which are only £12 in a stout box, wrapped in acid free tissue and taped to an offcut of either hardboard or MDF (3mm) it's a lot of effort for a minimal return but a lot cheaper than a replacement set. . Full loco/coach kits are in a box and sandwiched between card/mdf, it adds barely a £1 to the cost. 

[John Isherwood]

As a postscript to my mention of damage in transit via RM; I have today received a cheque from them for £234.75.

 

It does demonstrate the good sense of insuring items of value - though it has taken some three months to get past the excuses and other obstacles that RM put in your way when making a claim.

 

Sellers can pass on the cost of insurance to the customer, and it is in the interest of both parties to have the goods insured against loss or damage.

 

CJI.

[Camperdown]

5 hours ago, cctransuk said:

As a postscript to my mention of damage in transit via RM; I have today received a cheque from them for £234.75.

 

It does demonstrate the good sense of insuring items of value - though it has taken some three months to get past the excuses and other obstacles that RM put in your way when making a claim.

 

Sellers can pass on the cost of insurance to the customer, and it is in the interest of both parties to have the goods insured against loss or damage.

 

CJI.

That's good news, and I don't imagine it was easy getting RM to cough up.

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, Camperdown said:

That's good news, and I don't imagine it was easy getting RM to cough up.

 

PLEASE - don't let the matter of your damaged etches pass unchallenged.

 

Brassmasters have a legal duty to supply you with replacement items at no extra cost, and to pay for return postage if they want the originals back.

 

What action Brassmasters take against RM is a matter between themselves, it is NOTHING to do with you.

 

It is clear that whoever is running Brassmasters sales really cannot be bothered with the hassle of customers - they stopped supplying components by mail order because it was too much trouble!

 

CJI.

[Colin_McLeod]

On 22/07/2024 at 21:18, micklner said:

Small Claims County Court as a last resort. Very sad if Brassmasters do not sort this out the correct way, by simply sending another kit.

 

As already said Royal Mail will only offer £20.

 Unfortunately small claims court require the postal address of the party you are claiming against.  Back to square one.