GWR cancelled on all routes

[Bomag]

OT Give the title with 'GWR cancelled' my father would say it was not soon enough. 

[Wickham Green too]

T'other side of the border, in this part of Kent, we seem to have got away quite lightly - unlike my 1987 photo above, the trains seem to have been running to Hayes all day and I've not seen a tremendous lot of damage in the local woodlands .......... had to put my garden bench back where it belongs and 'rescue' a couple of plastic flower pots tho' !. 

[Pacific231G]

20 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Andy, he made the false assertion there would only be 3 attempts allowed, as the first go around occurred.

He made that assertion in the context of the number of "attempts" allowed...not possible.

That was just made up nonsense.

He had no knowledge of what the crews intentions were, what their flight plan entailed or what fuel they were carrying to allow any further attempts to land.

.

I was though under the impression (long before I'd even heard of Big Jet TV) that most airlines have a general understanding that pilots should (not must) divert after either two or three unsuccessful approaches. Ultimately of course it's the captain's decision and they are also free to choose to divert after one or no go-arounds if not happy with conditions. Nevertheless, the need for pilots of any description (even humble PPLs like me) to avoid gethereitis has been proven far too often. The problem with repeated attempted approaches is that the desire to get the aircraft down can become too strong.

 

Some of what he spouts IS nonsense but I've heard plenty of equal nonsense from pilots in flying clubs too. The bloke is an aviation enthusiast who's turned his hobby into a pretty successful business. His father was an airline pilot but he makes no claims to  professional aviation expertise. He says very clearly that he's not a pilot, and I have to say that I greatly enjoyed his show yesterday. It was a lot better than worrying if the roof was going to blow off. He's basically just voicing on his live feed what aviation enthusiasts hanging around near the ends of runways say to each other all the time- he's not reporting for BBC World Service . I did sort of wonder though whether he's ever thought  of learning to fly. I'm sure the subscriptions from yesterday would pay for a few hours.

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Pacific231G

[boxbrownie]

19 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

The number of approaches and attempts to land are governed by the weather and other criteria, plus, most importantly by the remaining fuel and the rules and procedures governing holding and diversion to the flight planned alternate (diversion airfield). Not some imaginary number of  "allowed goes".

A couple of earlier flights had made either one or two approaches before diverting to other airfields, no doubt because that's all they could safely achieve..

 

 

 

.

Funnily enough there was an interview with a woman on TV about her flight into the U.K., she left Bordeaux and I think was due to land at Stansted, but obviously the weather was such that every airport at the time when they approached the U.K. was closed only Glasgow was open but had major snow predicted so the pilot decided to turn around and go back to Bordeaux!

 

I wonder if he had an feeling it would be a bit dodgy and loaded up in fuel more than usual, because otherwise that’s a lot of fuel to carry around just in case. I suppose it could have been a “quick turn around” flight and did in fact have the fuel but it spoilt her day 

Edited February 19, 2022 by boxbrownie

[Michael Hodgson]

Airliners carry enough fuel not only for the flight but to cover foreseeable contingencies, such as needing more fuel than usual to oversome adverse headwinds, having to remain in a stack for quite a while waiting their turn to land, or to divert to another airport if necessary. 

 

If an aircraft has insufficient fuel to maintain flight he obviously has no alternative but to attempt to land, preferably on a runway - whether or not the airfield is open / Air Traffic gives permission to land.  So if a pilot were to declare a fuel emergency he would always be given priority.  Weather reports are obtained before flight, and the flight would not take place if the pilot believed conditions at destination were beyond what could be handled.

[Ron Ron Ron]

40 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Airliners carry enough fuel not only for the flight but to cover foreseeable contingencies, such as needing more fuel than usual to oversome adverse headwinds, having to remain in a stack for quite a while waiting their turn to land, or to divert to another airport if necessary...........

 

There's a mandatory minimum fuel requirement to.....

...allow for holding on arrival at the last navigation fix on the flight (usually a holding fix), prior to making a approach to land....

...allow an approach to land to be made...

...allow for a missed approach, if a landing cannot be made...

...climb away and divert to the designated alternate airfield required as part of the flight plan...

...allow for a minimum time to hold, prior to landing at the alternate.

...and to land safely at the alternate.

 

On top of that, as you say, there are other factors involved in calculating the fuel load, such as weather, headwinds, anticipated air traffic delays or re-routing and for contingencies.

It's a complicated balancing act between safety, formal operating procedures, legal requirements and regulations and economics.

Safety always come top.

 

Yesterday, the forecast weather conditions, would have meant, most flights would have been adequately fuelled to allow for the possibility of extended holding and possible diversions etc.

 

40 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

....So if a pilot were to declare a fuel emergency he would always be given priority.  

 

There is no status to a "Fuel Emergency" in UK airspace and to declare one, affords no priority.

You are required to declared a formal "Emergency" (either a "Pan" or a "Mayday"), before priority is given....and you will then get absolute priority and help.

Foreign pilots, from a region where it's a recognised procedure, declaring a Fuel Emergency will be asked (encouraged)  if they wish to declare an emergency.

ATC cannot legally initiate it.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Ron Ron Ron

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Funnily enough there was an interview with a woman on TV about her flight into the U.K., she left Bordeaux and I think was due to land at Stansted, but obviously the weather was such that every airport at the time when they approached the U.K. was closed only Glasgow was open but had major snow predicted so the pilot decided to turn around and go back to Bordeaux!

 

I wonder if he had an feeling it would be a bit dodgy and loaded up in fuel more than usual, because otherwise that’s a lot of fuel to carry around just in case. I suppose it could have been a “quick turn around” flight and did in fact have the fuel but it spoilt her day 

If she was with Easyjet (who do fly from Bordeaux to Stansted) at least the ghastly Billi, low cost airline terminal is currently closed. Any more time in there would have doubly spoiled her day (The last time I used it I vowed never to go near it again and, for my next trip to Bordeaux, used Eurostar and the TGV)

I didn't know there was a time yesterday when they were all closed. Heathrow was open but aircraft that diverted from there were going to Stansted. Being slightly cynical,  is it possible that flying the aircraft back to Bordeaux rather than to another British airport may have been advantageous for whichever airline it was in terms of positioning: did she actually get back to blighty yesterday?

Edited February 19, 2022 by Pacific231G

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Airliners carry enough fuel not only for the flight but to cover foreseeable contingencies, such as needing more fuel than usual to oversome adverse headwinds, having to remain in a stack for quite a while waiting their turn to land, or to divert to another airport if necessary. 

Yes I know, in my much younger days I flew a bit, no heavies though 

 

What surprised me was he had enough fuel to make two journeys effectively, not just a contingency for diversion.

 

Anyway, wrong thread.

Edited February 19, 2022 by boxbrownie

[boxbrownie]

43 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

If she was with Easyjet (who do fly from Bordeaux to Stansted) at least the ghastly Billi, low cost airline terminal is currently closed. Any more time in there would have doubly spoiled her day (The last time I used it I vowed never to go near it again and, for my next trip to Bordeaux, used Eurostar and the TGV)

I didn't know there was a time yesterday when they were all closed. Heathrow was open but aircraft that diverted from there were going to Stansted. Being slightly cynical,  is it possible that flying the aircraft back to Bordeaux rather than to another British airport may have been advantageous for whichever airline it was in terms of positioning: did she actually get back to blighty yesterday?

No, she was being interviewed from her house in France.