Traffic dept rubbish train and wagons used

[sf315]

In Simon Bendall’s excellent bookazine on modeling British Railways engineers wagons, on page 17 if you have a copy

There is a pic of a BR built starfish open wagon. 

The accompanying text says it is in rubbish and waste use collecting from stations and Goods yards and taking the refuse to railway tips. 

The wagon has DM Manchester refuse train on the side. 

I was wondering if anyone has any information on these services what they collected where there destination actually was and wagons used.

Were these trains common across the network or was this a Manchester area idea. 

This could be a working that modelers may be able to introduce on layouts. 

Thanks Steve. 

[Simon Lee]

At Hull Paragon, we had a rubbish wagon, used to sit on the stops of the short bay platform 10. 

 

Iirc, there were 2 wagons of the 5 plank variety working between Paragon and Barlow tip CCE tip near Selby. It was filled with refuse from sweeping the station, and by the labours of the carriage cleaners, plus any old and broken office furniture etc.

 

One of the local trips was booked to collect the loaded wagon and return the empty, on a weekly basis. The wagon transited via Doncaster to connect into a DCE working to Barlow.

[iands]

Selby station had a wagon in the bay platform for the station/offices rubbish collection. When full it was tripped to Barlow Tip 'as required'. Paul Bartlett has a photo of it on the HMRS site.

[Rivercider]

That is interesting to see two references to station rubbish going to Barlow CCE tip.

My understanding from my dad (who worked for the WR civil engineers) and other references elsewhere

was that only spent ballast, scrap concrete sleepers, and bank trim spoil was permitted to be put into a civil engineers tip. Items like timber sleepers and general rubbish were not permitted to go into the tip, and I thought the local council could check to see this was complied with,

 

Edit - it is possible that on the engineers tip all combustible material (timber sleepers, trees and bushes from bank trim, and station waste) might have been separately disposed of from the tip site, rather than be put in the tip.

That is not to say that timber sleepers and general rubbish did not get tipped. As I recall the Divisional Civil Engineer at Bristol was also officially classified as the Quarry/Site manager for Stoke Gifford Tip, so any infringements became his responsibility. 

At times my dad also had to make arrangements for wagons from the civil engineers fleet to be removed from stations and diesel depots where they were unofficially being used for loaded station waste or scrap brake blocks.

 

 

cheers

Edited February 12, 2022 by Rivercider
Additional info

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Simon Lee said:

At Hull Paragon, we had a rubbish wagon, used to sit on the stops of the short bay platform 10. 

 

Iirc, there were 2 wagons of the 5 plank variety working between Paragon and Barlow tip CCE tip near Selby. It was filled with refuse from sweeping the station, and by the labours of the carriage cleaners, plus any old and broken office furniture etc.

 

One of the local trips was booked to collect the loaded wagon and return the empty, on a weekly basis. The wagon transited via Doncaster to connect into a DCE working to Barlow.

 

I wonder how much actually got to the tip?, I can't see the wagon being sheeted to prevent wind borne losses.

 

Mike.

[37114]

Malago Vale carriage sidings near Bristol had no road access so all rubbish was loaded into industrial bins on specially converted Lowmacs and then tripped to Kingsland Road for road transfer to landfill. Both myself and @HillsideDepot have made models of the wagons and bins.

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, Rivercider said:

That is interesting to see two references to station rubbish going to Barlow CCE tip.

My understanding from my dad (who worked for the WR civil engineers) and other references elsewhere

was that only spent ballast, scrap concrete sleepers, and bank trim spoil was permitted to be put into a civil engineers tip. Items like timber sleepers and general rubbish were not permitted to go into the tip, and I thought the local council could check to see this was complied with,

 

Edit - it is possible that on the engineers tip all combustible material (timber sleepers, trees and bushes from bank trim, and station waste) might have been separately disposed of from the tip site, rather than be put in the tip.

That is not to say that timber sleepers and general rubbish did not get tipped. As I recall the Divisional Civil Engineer at Bristol was also officially classified as the Quarry/Site manager for Stoke Gifford Tip, so any infringements became his responsibility. 

At times my dad also had to make arrangements for wagons from the civil engineers fleet to be removed from stations and diesel depots where they were unofficially being used for loaded station waste or scrap brake blocks.

 

 

cheers

Combustible material was very firmly banned at Stoke Gifford tip.  There was however at least one WR tip which was permitted to take combustible material but I'm struggling to remember which ones although I'm reasonably sure that combustible material was allowed at the small tip at Maesglas when it was in use because wooden sleepers definitely went in there.

[Nearholmer]

May have been later than the OP had in mind, but my memory is that general rubbish was incinerated at carriage sidings, either in purpose-built incinerators, or as a permanent smouldering bonfire in the ex-LNER type steel merchandise wagons that were stationed at buffer stops for that purpose. Wood, as in sleepers, and the absolutely stacks of creosoted planks that we recovered when 1930s high-voltage cable routes were renewed, was either sold, given away, or deliberately positioned to allow it to be stolen. The last of these was the technique used for the top planks of cable trunking, which were always in poor condition: they would be stacked neatly beside a convenient farm or road crossing, and could be guaranteed to magically disappear within a few days. The side and bottom planks were in first-class order often 40-50 years out in the weather, and we’re used to build innumerable sheds, garden fences, garages etc.

[iands]

21 hours ago, Rivercider said:

That is interesting to see two references to station rubbish going to Barlow CCE tip.

My understanding from my dad (who worked for the WR civil engineers) and other references elsewhere

was that only spent ballast, scrap concrete sleepers, and bank trim spoil was permitted to be put into a civil engineers tip. Items like timber sleepers and general rubbish were not permitted to go into the tip, and I thought the local council could check to see this was complied with,

 

Edit - it is possible that on the engineers tip all combustible material (timber sleepers, trees and bushes from bank trim, and station waste) might have been separately disposed of from the tip site, rather than be put in the tip.

That is not to say that timber sleepers and general rubbish did not get tipped. As I recall the Divisional Civil Engineer at Bristol was also officially classified as the Quarry/Site manager for Stoke Gifford Tip, so any infringements became his responsibility. 

At times my dad also had to make arrangements for wagons from the civil engineers fleet to be removed from stations and diesel depots where they were unofficially being used for loaded station waste or scrap brake blocks.

 

 

cheers

Not certain that there weren't two separate sidings at Barlow. Looking at the maps, the CCE tip was reached (from Brayton) before the old site of Barlow station, with a separate siding at the old station which could have been for the "rubbish" tip.

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

they would be stacked neatly beside a convenient farm or road crossing, and could be guaranteed to magically disappear within a few days.

Got rid of a lot of telegraph poles that way. Quite easy to get them through a post and wire fence with a tractor and chain.

[TheSignalEngineer]

16T Mineral in the excursion platforms at Blackpool North in 1961.

 

Photo C E Steele

Edited April 10, 2022 by TheSignalEngineer
Picture restored

[TheSignalEngineer]

There were always a few wagons at the dock on the end of No.6 at the old New Street. Besides 7-plank, 16t minerals and LNER steel opens I came across this photo of a converted 3-plank in the siding between the dock and No.1 box

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrbns_br1830.htm