OO Gauge GWR Toplight Mainline & City Coaches announced

[kingmender]

7 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

What fabulous coaches but more on that later.

 

I was puzzled when one of mine kept derailing at the very same point on every circuit - not even a tight curve.  (I solved the issue by turning the coach round)  Thank you all for pointing out the issue with the notch on the truss rod.  All my truss rods have notches showing - they would do wouldn't they if someone has got a dimension wrong.

 

Just sitting waiting for my coffee to cool I have gently used a craft knife to separate the truss rod from the rest of the chassis.  I don't know what glue Dapol have used but it is quite soft and hasn't melted the plastic.  I have attached two pictures one showing the location hole and the other showing the peg on the truss rod.  Although it is not obvious from the individual pictures there is no way the peg lines up with the location hole.

 

Answers on a post card - do I cut the peg off the truss rod or do I pare away at the location hole.  Either way it should be straightforward to hold the truss rod down and relocate it with a dab of super glue.

 

 

The locating hole

 

 

The Peg

I had one coach (brake 3rd) derailing on 30" radius curves. Same issue with the ends of the truss rods fouling the bogie. Having removed the bogies completely (remove the philips screws retaining the wire connections) I eased the truss rods ends away with a craft knife. Then cleaned the glue from the rod ends and solebar, cleaned the hole with a 1.2mm drill bit and removed the sprue debris from the end of the spigot. Reassembled dry and added a small drop of super glue behind the truss rod where the spigot enters the hole.

As @trainsandco highlighted earlier the back to back measurements are inconsistent (some too narrow, some too wide) so I dismantled the bogies (the philips screws also secure the bogie sides) removed the wheelsets and adjusted to 14.5mm. Reassembled and tested all ok. Although the 5 others have so far proved ok (I've yet to propell them through cross overs or points) I will work through them all to avoid future issues.
Beautiful coaches though, it looks like an assembly issue that can be resolved for future production. Bring on the mainline versions!

Edited August 9 by kingmender
typo and clarification

[Free At Last]

I've just removed the bogie from one of mine to have a better look. The peg is in the locating hole but doesn't look to be fully seated. I'll ease it out tomorrow and see if cleaning it has any effect. I want to be able to fully hide the notch behind the solebar.

 

 

[Hal Nail]

8 hours ago, Free At Last said:

The peg is in the locating hole but doesn't look to be fully seated. 

 

Have you seen the post on 1 August from @Coppercap describing how to fix this?

[Coppercap]

15 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

What fabulous coaches but more on that later.

 

I was puzzled when one of mine kept derailing at the very same point on every circuit - not even a tight curve.  (I solved the issue by turning the coach round)  Thank you all for pointing out the issue with the notch on the truss rod.  All my truss rods have notches showing - they would do wouldn't they if someone has got a dimension wrong.

 

Just sitting waiting for my coffee to cool I have gently used a craft knife to separate the truss rod from the rest of the chassis.  I don't know what glue Dapol have used but it is quite soft and hasn't melted the plastic.  I have attached two pictures one showing the location hole and the other showing the peg on the truss rod.  Although it is not obvious from the individual pictures there is no way the peg lines up with the location hole.

 

Answers on a post card - do I cut the peg off the truss rod or do I pare away at the location hole.  Either way it should be straightforward to hold the truss rod down and relocate it with a dab of super glue.

 

 

The locating hole

 

 

The Peg

I posted on this previously.

Cut the peg off, and trim a small slice off the truss rod so it sits down onto the locating hole with the cutout in the rod sat over the web of the underframe where it's obviously meant to sit. Then re-glue.

The underframe is metal, so it would be too much hard work to alter that.

[Silver Sidelines]

52 minutes ago, Coppercap said:

 

Cut the peg off, and trim a small slice off the truss rod so it sits down onto the locating hole with the cutout in the rod sat over the web of the underframe where it's obviously meant to sit. Then re-glue.

The underframe is metal, so it would be too much hard work to alter that.

 

Cheers Copper cap.  I was going to alert people to the fact that the underframe is metal (Mazac?) and the truss rods are polythene type plastic.   So as you say - cut off the peg as you will not get very far trying to do anything with the locating hole.

 

Because the underframe is metal and the truss rod is polythene Dapol have used a very soft glue which does not damage iether the chassis or the truss rod.  When the truss rod is not seated in the locating hole it is easy to separate the rod and chassis with a sharp craft knife.  It also follows that the truss rod can be bent up and out from beneath the chassis and the peg trimmed off without the need to remove any bogies.  I have attached a couple of pictures.  Please note that the coach side had not been scratched - there is a hair on it just to fool you all.  Fettling the truss rod in this fashion takes about ten minutes and may not even need any glue - although I did use some super glue to fix the rod back down.

 

 

 

 

 

None of the cut outs in my truss rods match up perfectly with the chassis.  I only intend to modify the rods where the alignment is interfering with the bogies as I suspect the issue is more complicated than might be first thought.

 

Regards  Ray

 

 

Edited August 9 by Silver Sidelines

[Coppercap]

2 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

Cheers Copper cap.  I was going to alert people to the fact that the underframe is metal (Mazac?) and the truss rods are polythene type plastic.   So as you say - cut off the peg as you will not get very far trying to do anything with the locating hole.

 

Because the underframe is metal and the truss rod is polythene Dapol have used a very soft glue which does not damage iether the chassis or the truss rod.  When the truss rod is not seated in the locating hole it is easy to separate the rod and chassis with a sharp craft knife.  It also follows that the truss rod can be bent up and out from beneath the chassis and the peg trimmed off without the need to remove any bogies.  I have attached a couple of pictures.  Please note that the coach side had not been scratched - there is a hair on it just to fol you all.  Aending the truss rod in this fashion takes about ten minutes and may not even need any glue - although I did use some super glue to fix the rod bakc down.

 

 

=https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53910893957_c770b0362c_o.jpg]

 

None of the cut outs in my truss rods match up perfectly with the chassis.  I only intend to modify the rods where the alignment is interfering with the bogies as I suspect the issue is more complicated than might be first thought.

 

Regards  Ray

 

 

The truss rods aren't polythene, they just seem to be typical soft polystyrene. Superglue works fine on them - they generally use it in the factory for speed of assembly. 

[Free At Last]

Found a wire trapped that did not want to easily be freed...

 

...so I've ended up with a kit of parts I hope I can reassemble.

 

Edited to add, reassembly went ok and I'm happy with the clearance now.
Not in a hurry to do another five.
Thanks also to the other posters for their pictures and methods.

Edited August 12 by Free At Last

[Neal Ball]

I have now checked all my truss rods and all six carriages are misaligned.

 

They will all need fixing before they run at Henley-on-Thames.

[Silver Sidelines]

11 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

I have now checked all my truss rods and all six carriages are misaligned.

 

Cheers Neal, until you put them on a layout and run them you will not know whether they need fettling or not.  I only have the two coaches and all the truss rods show a tiny gap between the cut out in the truss rod and the cross member on the chassis.  Out of four bogies and eight truss rods I have had only one where the misalignment was great enough to interfere with the rotation of the bogie whilst running - and then only at one location on the layout. 

 

Super coaches, thank you Dapol.  I have used Bachmann mini couplings on the ends and Roco 40270 between the coaches.  I don't know who Dapol thought would be able to use their rigid couplings bars - both sizes are far too short for my layout - minimum 3ft / Peco Medium Radius.

 

 

[Capel]

22 hours ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

Cheers Copper cap.  I was going to alert people to the fact that the underframe is metal (Mazac?) and the truss rods are polythene type plastic.   So as you say - cut off the peg as you will not get very far trying to do anything with the locating hole.

 

Because the underframe is metal and the truss rod is polythene Dapol have used a very soft glue which does not damage iether the chassis or the truss rod.  When the truss rod is not seated in the locating hole it is easy to separate the rod and chassis with a sharp craft knife.  It also follows that the truss rod can be bent up and out from beneath the chassis and the peg trimmed off without the need to remove any bogies.  I have attached a couple of pictures.  Please note that the coach side had not been scratched - there is a hair on it just to fool you all.  Fettling the truss rod in this fashion takes about ten minutes and may not even need any glue - although I did use some super glue to fix the rod back down.

 

 

 

 

 

None of the cut outs in my truss rods match up perfectly with the chassis.  I only intend to modify the rods where the alignment is interfering with the bogies as I suspect the issue is more complicated than might be first thought.

 

Regards  Ray

 

 

 

Hi Ray,

 

Appreciate your helpful photos and steps. I've used superglue as suggested by @Coppercap to lightly attach the truss rod ends and cutout to the chassis.

My pair of Brake Third and a Second now sail through tight set track points instead of derailing, even with the rigid bars supplied. 🙂

Edited August 10 by Capel

[gwrrob]

A heads up to say how easy these are to fit dummy screw link couplings. The Dapol hook comes out without fuss and a proper replacement, Accurascale in my case, fitted in the same hole with a dab of glue to secure. I've also used whitemetal pipes from Dave Franks instead of the plastic ones supplied.

[Silver Sidelines]

On 10/08/2024 at 10:23, Capel said:

 

Hi Ray,

 

Appreciate your helpful photos and steps. I've used superglue as suggested by @Coppercap to lightly attach the truss rod ends and cutout to the chassis.

My pair of Brake Third and a Second now sail through tight set track points instead of derailing, even with the rigid bars supplied. 🙂

 

Thanks Capel, I have now added a Post to my Blog with more pictures - and a video with some shots taken in the dark!

 

Regards  Ray

 

 

Edited August 13 by Silver Sidelines

[gwrrob]

On 03/08/2024 at 10:32, gwrrob said:

 

Just a thought , I'm wondering if the guys at Westhill Wagon Works would be up to designing a specific coupling for these.

 

I had a very encouraging email reply to this today and they do indeed have plans to introduce a specific coupling for these in their range. Watch this space.

[Railbear]

Re GWR Toplight Mainline and City sets, does anyone know the set make-up? The Brakes, obviously are at the outer ends but where are the compos and thirds exactly. (If this has been answered before please direct me.) Thanks, Steve

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, Railbear said:

Re GWR Toplight Mainline and City sets, does anyone know the set make-up? The Brakes, obviously are at the outer ends but where are the compos and thirds exactly. (If this has been answered before please direct me.) Thanks, Steve

 

Under a minute, speed browsing from the beginning:

 

[Miss Prism]

Brk 3rd, 3rd, compo, compo, 3rd, brk 3rd

 

(the first class compartments of the compos are adjacent to each other)

 

[The Johnster]

Having the first class at the centre of fixed sets of that era was common on the GW;  the early E116 B set coaches featured it as well.  Not only did it offer greater collision protection, it also enabled the first class punters to board or alight under the cover of the canopies in most places.  it is a feature of the distribution of wealth in our society that the people who can afford the best raincoats have the least need of them...

[The Johnster]

The 'first class in the middle of the train' principle was perpetuated in the non-gangwayed Collett 57' bowender 4-coach sets (as modelled by Hornby), and the similar 5-coach sets for the Bristol and Newport Divisions, with the first class being three compartments in the cental composite.

[David Stannard]

19 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Having the first class at the centre of fixed sets of that era was common on the GW;  the early E116 B set coaches featured it as well.  Not only did it offer greater collision protection, it also enabled the first class punters to board or alight under the cover of the canopies in most places.  it is a feature of the distribution of wealth in our society that the people who can afford the best raincoats have the least need of them...

 Just to rub in the social inequality even further 2nd Class had been abolished many years earlier leaving just First Class and Third Class for most services, unless you were one of the Uber Elite that could afford to reserve your own Saloon Coach on some services. 

[Compound2632]

20 minutes ago, David Stannard said:

 Just to rub in the social inequality even further 2nd Class had been abolished many years earlier 

 

In fact only ten or eleven years before these carriages were built.

[Miss Prism]

The smart plebs would choose the 3rd class compartments in the compos, which were longer than those in the 3rds and Brk 3rds.

 

 

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

The smart plebs would choose the 3rd class compartments in the compos, which were longer than those in the 3rds and Brk 3rds.

 

Which maybe would have been seconds, a few years earlier. 

[Hal Nail]

At risk of going even further off piste, the 4 coach collett sets of the same family as the E140 classic B set (E98 and D109 maybe?) had bigger compartments in the brake 3rd, than the 3rd class in the composite - I think just a compromise to make it all fit. Incidentally by the time these came out the 1st was in the middle of the coach, so didn't end up adjoining in a 4 car set.

Edited August 27 by Hal Nail

[Railbear]

Thanks to all who responded. Steve

[Jon Harbour]

Has anybody had any issues with the Kinematic system? I've got one coach where the spring for the kinematic system appears to have come loose. The coupling regularly overextends.

 

I'll take some pictures later today when I go to my local club but I haven't ventured as far as trying to take it apart to fix permanently yet. I have had the bogie off to temporarily put the kinematic coupling back in place, but it seems to come back out again shortly after fixing.