Citadel's Workbench - Carlisle in late Victorian times

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, Dave John said:

Just wondering whether the uneven looking text on the dining saloons is due to early films representation of colour? The letters seem to have a very blurred surrounding, which might be a badly reproduced red. 

 

I think one would need to look at a better reproduction of the photo. I think there is a good one in Jenkinson's book but I'm away from home at the mo.

[Coal Tank]

Hi Mike,the horse box looks interesting, will it be available?

[Citadel]

On 17/08/2024 at 23:07, Coal Tank said:

Hi Mike,the horse box looks interesting, will it be available?

 

I did the 42' Diner etch for John Redrup at LRM.  There was a convenient space on the sheet so added it as a Brucie Bonus as it were.  Ultimately up to John how he wants to play this but assume he'll add to his range as the old MicroRail kit no longer available and used to be a good seller.

 

Shout out to PPD, really good turnaround on the etches and really good quality (usual disclaimer, satisfied customer etc. etc.)

 

 

Also got the 42' TPO etch in the same parcel which included my consignment of ninja death stars - all to be revealed in due course....

 

 

Just got back from a week in Stockholm and spent some time playing with a new toy:

 

 

When I landscaped the garden installed around 200 oak sleepers as retaining walls etc.  On curves so needed to be vertical and am a little conscious that the rain is getting into the end grain where it is exposed.  Bought the guillotine/folder above to make end caps out of 0.5mm zinc but had been eyeing up the rolling bars for carriage roofs.

 

The GW bars work well for smaller items but I do struggle a little to get a nice straight line along the edge of the roof.  A combination of the more pliable nature of the zinc and the more 'industrial' tool certainly gives a good result and the guillotine produces an excellent clean edge with minimal further work required.  Hopefully the days of Plasticard roofs are now behind me.

 

[Compound2632]

21 minutes ago, Citadel said:

Hopefully the days of Plasticard roofs are now behind me.

 

New challenge: fixing the rainstrips...

[Coal Tank]

Those etches look really good Mike.

[Jol Wilkinson]

20 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

New challenge: fixing the rainstrips...

 

I have successfully fitted plastic microstrip rainstrips to extruded aluminium carriage roof just using solvent. Done shortly before painting the roof, the solvent seems to create a reasonable bond, while paint then provided a stronger hold. 

 

Bearing in mind that the carriages had to withstand handling and packing on an exhibition layout. I expect this would meet most people's needs.

[Citadel]

On 24/08/2024 at 08:46, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

I have successfully fitted plastic microstrip rainstrips to extruded aluminium carriage roof just using solvent. Done shortly before painting the roof, the solvent seems to create a reasonable bond, while paint then provided a stronger hold. 

 

Bearing in mind that the carriages had to withstand handling and packing on an exhibition layout. I expect this would meet most people's needs.

 

Advice duly followed - thanks.  Initially secured the centres with a tiny blob of cyano adhesive, then bent the plastic strip and secured the ends in the same way.  Finally ran Tamiya Extra Thin solvent cement using capillary action and made final adjustments to the curve / tamped into place.  Seems to stick pretty well.   Oh, and lightly sanded the zinc to try and provide a key. 

 

 

Did my usual weathering - not really a great fan of pristine white roofs as am sure they quickly weathered in service.  Firstly grey undercoat then Halfords white primer on top - it's covering power is pretty woeful so am looking to still see some grey through it.  Then a liberal dosing of black / slate grey weathering powder brushed across the roof.

 

 

Finally dust off the excess and seal with matt acrylic varnish.  Do you like my personalised paintbrushes courtesy of Games Workshop 🙂

 

 

Looking at the photo realise now that I've used two different makes of ventilators on the roof and it's annoying me...  Will try and disguise with a bit more weathering powder.

Edited August 25 by Citadel

[Citadel]

Finished off the D162.  Pleased with how the roof turned out.  WCJS No. 1 - well at least that saved on transfers.

 

 

Wonder how many D162's constitutes enough(!). They were one of the more numerous diagrams in WCJS service (think 40 carriages in total).  Am getting somewhat addicted to the end compartments but maybe now need to move on 🙂

 

 

Maybe this will provide some inspiration - only 70p including postage(!)

 

[Portchullin Tatty]

5 hours ago, Citadel said:

 

These look very good and you won't go back on using metal roofs. 

 

Whilst the zinc will be easier to roll, I wonder if brass or nickle silver will be easier to work with?  Something else you will want to look at if you are using metal roofs is securing them down with screws, it closes up all the gaps and saves you loosing roofs if you are handling the coach.

 

However, a question to you if I may.  What is the source of the etched windows that you have in the toilets?

 

 

Mark

5 hours ago, Citadel said:

 

 

 

 

[Citadel]

On 05/04/2023 at 13:27, Citadel said:

 

Last night’s project was lavatory windows, I seemed to need lots.  The biggest culprit was the D159 lavatory composite:

 

 

Folks have been complementary about the windows (though still yearn after having a go at getting some laser etched as per @Portchullin Tatty's suggestion).  Mine are quite 'impressionistic', actually think this is somewhat appealing to the eye as the design on the window is quite subtle in normal daylight.

 

I start by making a template, either from spare windows on the etch (or with forethought could do this before commencing the kit):

 

 

Use 0.5mm clear sheet, used to get this from Eileen's, the benefit is that it has a two side peel off protective layer which reduces the risk of fingerprints / scratches from the workbench.  Remove one of the films (this will be the outside of the finished window) and roughen with 240 grit sandpaper.  Use light oscillating motion, trying to get the clear material to go opaque but without any obvious direction to the scratches.

 

 

Then use the templates to get the window outline and scrawk guidelines with my Olfa cutter.  For the design I use gloss acrylic varnish and a small brush, any small mistakes can be rectified by scratching away with the tip of a scalpel blade once the varinsh is dry.  Finally run some diluted varnish down the score lines to create the border and add some random embellishments to the corners.  What I like about doing this on the outside is that you get much greater contrast in the finished window and and blobby bits of gloss varnish take on quite a jewel like appearance (so basically like the etched/cut glass).

 

The scorelines are useful when centering the window in the aperture.  Finally fit to the carriage and remove the inner protective film.

@Portchullin Tatty, here we go,  was very impressed by the laser etched ones you shared,  mine are slightly impressionistic splodges of gloss varnish on sanded acrylic sheet. See description above 🙂

[Citadel]

19 hours ago, Portchullin Tatty said:

Whilst the zinc will be easier to roll, I wonder if brass or nickel silver will be easier to work with?  Something else you will want to look at if you are using metal roofs is securing them down with screws, it closes up all the gaps and saves you loosing roofs if you are handling the coach.

 

Fair point - it's just that I'd bought 20m2 of 0.5mm zinc for the garden landscaping project and now have enough offcuts for a lifetime of carriage roof building.  Definitely will be screwing them down - I've had enough of trying to stick roofs down with all the associated issues.

 

Anyway, progress with the Stevenson Carriages D54 Composite Corridor and D68 Third Class Brake - the 2 pm Corridor starts to take shape...

 

 

 

 

 

There's something about me that likes a corridor carriage and the difference between the window layout of the two sides - it's almost as if you get two carriages for the price of one.

 

Need to find the corridor connections though as seem to have mislaid them.  Do they come with the kit - doesn't seem to be any mention in the instructions?

 

In a moment of madness said I would demonstrate my approach to carriage painting / lining at SolRail on the 16th/17th Nov in Workington.  Thought I needed to get building some carriages so that I would have something to paint!

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Mike,

 

To my knowledge Stevenson Carriages kits never included the corridor connections, selling them as an extra, something of a strange approach for corridor carriage kits. I don't know if Squires have changed that policy. An alternative gangway kit, of specific LNWR pattern, is available from LRM.

 

I have built several Stevenson Carriages kits over the years, including their forerunners which were produced and sold by Brian Badger. Barrie Stevenson took them over AIUI, simply continuing to sell the same product but did introduce two clerestory roof full brake vans, in slightly different versions. I have one which has been in the to build pile for many years but has just moved into the "to sell" box. Sadly BS followed the same approach with that kit, rather than taking the opportunity to make any improvements such as etched ends. My kit also has several other defects and is probably the worst kit (possibly other than some K's LNWR six wheelers) I have ever had in my hands.

 

Jol

 

 

[SteamAle]

T'was not a moment of madness to say you'd demonstrate your skills at Workington MRE.

Think of it as a fantastic oportuity to get to see so many great layouts for free and meet so many talented people who enjoy talking and sharing thier skills.

Look at the progress you are making working to a deadline and enjoy the fruits of your labours. We certainly are!

[Coal Tank]

Hi Mike,did you contact Worsley Works about their coaches ? .

[Citadel]

9 hours ago, SteamAle said:

T'was not a moment of madness to say you'd demonstrate your skills at Workington MRE.

Think of it as a fantastic oportunity to get to see so many great layouts for free and meet so many talented people who enjoy talking and sharing thier skills.

Look at the progress you are making working to a deadline and enjoy the fruits of your labours. We certainly are!

 

Of course you are right, thoroughly enjoyed it last year and was great to put faces to names.  You never know, might even have finished the M&CR 6 wheelers by then 🙂

 

13 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Mike,

 

To my knowledge Stevenson Carriages kits never included the corridor connections, selling them as an extra, something of a strange approach for corridor carriage kits. I don't know if Squires have changed that policy. An alternative gangway kit, of specific LNWR pattern, is available from LRM.

 

I have built several Stevenson Carriages kits over the years, including their forerunners which were produced and sold by Brian Badger. Barrie Stevenson took them over AIUI, simply continuing to sell the same product but did introduce two clerestory roof full brake vans, in slightly different versions. I have one which has been in the to build pile for many years but has just moved into the "to sell" box. Sadly BS followed the same approach with that kit, rather than taking the opportunity to make any improvements such as etched ends. My kit also has several other defects and is probably the worst kit (possibly other than some K's LNWR six wheelers) I have ever had in my hands.

 

Jol

 

Yep, it's a bit odd to offer a model of a corridor carriage and then have the main event as an optional extra.  I've got on OK with the kits but not sure I enjoyed the interface between the sides / mainframes and the PCB 'floor'.  Definitely was spoiled by starting off with the ones you designed! 

 

2 hours ago, Coal Tank said:

Hi Mike,did you contact Worsley Works about their coaches ? .

 

On the 'to-do' list.  Have exchanged a couple of emails but keep getting distracted - here's the latest visit from the monkey of instant gratification:

 

Edited August 28 by Citadel

[chris p bacon]

I etched the GN's Pullmans a couple of years ago. The etch is the easy part, it's the livery which is the difficult. 

[Citadel]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

I etched the GN's Pullmans a couple of years ago. The etch is the easy part, it's the livery which is the difficult. 

 

But what can go wrong, it looks so tasteful and understated 🙂

 

 

Being a bit more serious was planning to draw them up in Adobe Illustrator and get decals made.  Before I go to the cost of getting the phototool and etch was thinking of experimenting a little bit in this respect.  @railtec-models comes to mind as a potential source.  Also need to look at UV inkjet and OKI laser toner.  

 

Do you have any pictures of the GN Pullman you did by way of inspiration?

Edited August 28 by Citadel

[richard i]

How about half etching the design in and then filling in lines with paint of the correct colour?

richard 

[Portchullin Tatty]

On 26/08/2024 at 22:42, Citadel said:

@Portchullin Tatty, here we go,  was very impressed by the laser etched ones you shared,  mine are slightly impressionistic splodges of gloss varnish on sanded acrylic sheet. See description above 🙂

 

Hi Mike

 

Thanks for that and they look pretty compelling once fitted.  I might have a try or I might have a bit more of a go with some more laser ones.

 

 

Mark

[chris p bacon]

23 hours ago, Citadel said:

Being a bit more serious was planning to draw them up in Adobe Illustrator and get decals made.  

 

 We looked at getting decals made but didn't get very far as no one seemed interested even though the artwork was done.

 

I built the 3 Pullmans that ran on the GN but haven't finished them as everything is packed away as we are in the middle of a house move and renovation (4 years so far)

 

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 04/08/2024 at 10:39, Chas Levin said:

That's very strange, isn't it? Could it perhaps be some sort of photographic distortion? I can't believe they'd have had something like that in traffic...

Coming somewhat late to this, the arc of the lettering appears deliberate, there's no comparable distortion in the vehicle structure. Simply, an inappropriate experiment?

 

The slight fuzziness might be caused by halation, (reflection from the substrate) something which photographic emulsion designers would stuggle to fully overcome for a couple more decades yet.

[ianmaccormac]

I went the 3D print way. This, the first one was 7mm. The 4mm 1881 LBSCR train is almost complete also. Bogies were easier in 7mm!

[Chas Levin]

18 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Coming somewhat late to this, the arc of the lettering appears deliberate, there's no comparable distortion in the vehicle structure. Simply, an inappropriate experiment?

 

The slight fuzziness might be caused by halation, (reflection from the substrate) something which photographic emulsion designers would stuggle to fully overcome for a couple more decades yet.

Did you see my later reply though, where I explained that I'd initially completely misinterpreted the arc? Looking more closely, I realised it is a complete arc and intentional, whereas when I'd first looked, I'd seen it as supposed to be straight but with the later letters in the word droooping down, the way you sometimes see them in poorly applied transfers on a model.

 

My apologies for muddying the waters on this one: false alarm!

[Citadel]

On 29/08/2024 at 22:06, chris p bacon said:

 

 We looked at getting decals made but didn't get very far as no one seemed interested even though the artwork was done.

 

I built the 3 Pullmans that ran on the GN but haven't finished them as everything is packed away as we are in the middle of a house move and renovation (4 years so far)

 

 

 

 

Fabulous.  You're right though, the lining / transfers is a bit of a worry.  Doing some experiments with a graphic design company who offer laser toner printing onto waterslide decal media - let's see.  The draft artwork I sent them below.  Thought I'd try two routes - firstly a the lining on clear substrate to be applied to the underlying paint, secondly the whole thing incorporating the base colour (here would cut into squares and insert into the panelling.  Let's see - have calibrated my expectations to the appropriate level, it's not particularly expensive so nothing to lose really.  There's a bit of a M&C thing going on as well, do need to try and finish my 6 wheelers for the Workington show.

 

It does make me realise though that I'm not sure what the colour of the carriages should be - is it brown rather than red?  When the Midland took ownership of the carriages were they repainted in crimson?

 

 

On 30/08/2024 at 16:07, ianmaccormac said:

I went the 3D print way. This, the first one was 7mm. The 4mm 1881 LBSCR train is almost complete also. Bogies were easier in 7mm!

 

Once again fabulous!  I was going to machine my roof out of close grained wood but certainly 3D printing seems to offer the optimal route here.  The resolution on the bogie trussing and the end railings looks fantastic as well but does it survive handling?  Think am beginning to realise that different materials offer different benefits and the optimal solution may often be to use them in combination - have put some etched brass ones on the etch design and more than happy to add a few spares and stick them in the post to you for when you do the 4mm version if it would be of any interest.

 

On 29/08/2024 at 07:57, richard i said:

How about half etching the design in and then filling in lines with paint of the correct colour?

richard 

 

Good idea, I did think about this.  The panels are already half etched so the lining would need to be raised.  Thought I might then use fine sandpaper to remove the paint and reveal the brass below.  Bit worried though that it might make the lining a bit to prominent - it's already pretty garish.  Was thinking of maybe muting the contrast down a little so it didn't completely dominate the carriage (and make my slips/mistakes to obvious).  Let's see where I get to with the transfer route first - think this one will be a bit of a trip into the unknown 🙂

[ianmaccormac]

They were more than one colour! These from the Seaford ex Balmoral6 wheeler sleeping vehicle that someone has restored.

Edited September 3 by ianmaccormac
added picture