Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling

[Monkey28]

Can the lights be turned off with a DCC decoder fitted?

[Silver Sidelines]

My Capriotti Black Five was delivered this morning.  I am well pleased.  I cancelled my first order when I read about the lights.  After seeing the first pictures here on RMweb I had second thoughts and placed another order

 

I will attach a video which should be instructive.  It is a brief comparison with a split chassis Bachmann Jubilee and an ealier Hornby Black Five.  The Jubliee is mechanically unmodified and weighs 315gm.  All my earlier Black Fives are ballasted to 294gm.  The Capriotti Black Five weighs 235gm.  I view models at a distance - I don't see a particular issue with the engine to tender spacing.

 

Hornby are to be commended because they have certainly upped their game with their packaging.  Mine runs perfectly and it came out of the box with no loose or broken bits.  Full marks to Hornby again. Is the Capriotti a toy or a model?  Well the lights are certainly prominent.  However the instructions are quite clear, 'changing (the lamps) over is quite fiddly and a good degree of modelling ability is required to change these over'.  So perhaps Hornby are being very clever, gimicks that will appeal to the toy market, and a well made model for the more serious enthusiast.  Thanks Hornby, Cheers Ray

 

PS Must investigate how the lid comes off and add some lead.

 

 

Edited June 5 by Silver Sidelines

[Sam*45110*SVR]

Has anyone removed the top lamp and swapped it for the spare lamp iron yet? I've not seen any pictures of this so far and I'm curious how well it blends in with the smoke box door.

[IOW O2]

1 hour ago, Silver Sidelines said:

......The Capriotti Black Five weighs 235gm. 

Useful video.  Loco seems a bit light for size compared to a sample of mine below.

 

                                                                     loco.   w/tender.   coaches haul

Rebuilt west country Hornby      2006      390g     520               24

manor            Accurascale  x2     2023      320g     410               21

king class      Hornby                   2017       320g     440              6 yes 6

WC/B o B       Hornby x2           2012/19    330g     450 x2         24

94xx pannier Bachmann             2020       252g                          24

N class           Bachmann          c.2005      250g     370               18

[Silver Sidelines]

2 hours ago, Sam*45110*SVR said:

Has anyone removed the top lamp

 

Yes top and bottom lamps, thanks a good evening's work.  Must investigate adding weight tomorrow.

 

 

 

Edited June 5 by Silver Sidelines

[zr2498]

4 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

Yes thanks, a good evening's work.  Must investigate adding weight tomorrow.

 

 

 

Looking good. Any tips? I assume light bleed fixed with black tack.

I expect some weight has been sacrificed from the chassis to accomodate models that would have the steam generator kit fitted.

So probably some room at the front end available.

Thanks

 

 

[Silver Sidelines]

10 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

Looking good. Any tips?

 

 

 

Thanks ZR - yes a steep learning curve.  I will put it in a Blog when I am happy with the model.

 

Cheers Ray

[Black 5 Bear]

2 hours ago, Sam*45110*SVR said:

Has anyone removed the top lamp and swapped it for the spare lamp iron yet? I've not seen any pictures of this so far and I'm curious how well it blends in with the smoke box door.

In addition to Ray of Silver Sidelines excellent work, the attached video from Class 47 Peter, may also be of some assistance 

 

Edited June 5 by Black 5 Bear

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

2 hours ago, IOW O2 said:

Loco seems a bit light for size compared to a sample of mine below.

Hornby B12/3 4-6-0, diecast body, loco alone 340g. My weight lift estimate of drawbar force 50g, handles 15 Bach mk1 or 60x4W wagon trains, which would be very much a maximum load for this small 4P rated loco. (Outperforms all RTR 2-8-0's other than Heljan's two heavyweights...)

 

I'd really like all my steam loco purchases metal bodied, and especially the smaller subjects where internal space for added weight is limited.

[phil-b259]

15 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

on the Hornby Black 5 they are removable.

 

 

Not so - many have been glued in place at the factory and whats more when trying to remove them they get broken leaving part of them behind!

 

Whats more the tender lamp is NOT REMOVABLE at all!

 

15 hours ago, adb968008 said:

its worth pointing out that carriage lights often aren't lit during the day either, but no ones demanding they be removed. How many have diesels running round the layout with drivers cabs lit ? Some aspects of the hobby people like, even if unrealistic.

 

 

Carriage or cab lighting is generally hidden away and not visible when it is turned on or off. As such from the exterior view its physical presence does not generally detract from the model or interrupt the design by requiring sockets to be inserted into highly visible ares regardless of whether its on in use or not.

 

It also does not require physical manipulation in the way that oil lamps mounted on lamp brackets require (i.e. their removal) to turn it on or off....

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Not so - many have been glued in place at the factory and whats more when trying to remove them they get broken leaving part of them behind!

 

 

Dont embarrass yourself, look at the 5 pictures just above this post.

I believe thats the third confirmed user of them showing pictures of the lamps being changed, yet some dont accept the truth.

 

They are removable, lamp irons are in the parts bag, as is other lamps.

 

Why would they do that if they didnt intend the buyer to have option to reconfigure them ?

 

is it perfect, no, a long way from it, but its possible to use as designed, but imo the design needs more work. But to say its not possible is untrue.
 

i personally hope they improve it as I think the idea is a long over due innovation, binning it takes us backwards again.

 

i appreciate some may not want it, but removing the choice from others, especially on a cost negligible optional self-implementation is retrograde. Had they got it correct, this thread would be half the size.

Edited June 6 by adb968008

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

I haven’t got one of these yet as I’m waiting on the steam an sound one. However surely the lamps having a little bit of glue to keep them in place during transit is no different to a lot of diesel’s having one end fully detailed with pipes etc which glued in for transit too? As they are intended to be removable too for people who want to have couplings on both ends.

 

Have people struggling to remove the lamps tried the old technique of using a hair dryer on hot to attempt to soften up the glue on the lamps? That technique normally works wonders on the diesels with fully detailed front ends

Edited June 6 by Bryn_Bach_Railway

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Dont embarrass yourself, look at the 5 pictures just above this post.

I believe thats the third confirmed user of them showing pictures of the lamps being changed, yet some dont accept the truth.

 

They are removable, lamp irons are in the parts bag, as is other lamps.

 

Why would they do that if they didnt intend the buyer to have option to reconfigure them ?

 

is it perfect, no, a long way from it, but its possible to use as designed, but imo the design needs more work. But to say its not possible is untrue.
 

i personally hope they improve it as I think the idea is a long over due innovation, binning it takes us backwards again.

 

i appreciate some may not want it, but removing the choice from others, especially on a cost negligible optional self-implementation is retrograde. Had they got it correct, this thread would be half the size.

Okay, so perhaps the factory used too much or too effective a glue, but they don't come out easily, as mentioned in a number of reviews/posts.

 

What the critics want, and I suspect even those in favour would also prefer, are lamps that look right and can be swapped over between duties with the loco  on the track, or at least in the fiddle yard.

 

Had the lamps been implemented properly, the illumination would be almost undetectable in daylight, and barely visible at night. Unfortunately, Hornby has prioritised attention-grabbing brightness over everything else. 

 

I share your hope that Hornby improve this feature for subsequent production runs, and when they do, they will return to my shopping list. Indeed, it should be possible to produce corrected parts to fit the existing bodies (the tender lamp excepted). 

 

However, there's a pretty good chance of there being another Black Five under development elsewhere.

 

Unfortunately, having let their supposed USP out of the bag prematurely, Hornby have left themselves wide open to being "gazumped" by a competitor doing it better before they get chance to sort theirs.

 

John  

 

 

Edited June 6 by Dunsignalling

[Silver Sidelines]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

They are removable, lamp irons are in the parts bag, as is other lamps.

 

 

 

For all the nay sayers , the lamps are removeable and they are glued.... 

 

Well actually the openings in the body are coated with blacktack.  Gently easing the lights out requires time and patience.  Fitting the spare lamp irons out of the parts bag requires even more time and a very steady hand.  Two points that I noted.  The smears of black tack on the front of the engine left after pulling the lamps off can be washed off with white spirit.  Secondly the spare lamp irons are not a perfec fit for the openings.  The front centre lamp iron seems big and I took time cleaning the opening in the footplate.  The opening on the smoke box door is massive and the iron slops around.  Usefully the door is removable - being held on by magnets - so you can get to the rear of the lamp iron.  I have refitted my lampirons using butanone (MEK).  For the lamp iron in the fooplate this softened the plastic sufficient to wedge the 'foot' into the opening.

 

Below is a picture of the smoke box door and the diode.  I am guessing that the door has to be removeable to do something with the smoke generator.

 

Edited June 6 by Silver Sidelines

[adb968008]

7 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

For all the nay sayers , the lamps are removeable and they are glued.... 

 

Well actually the openings in the body are coated with blacktack.  Gently easing the lights out requires time and patience.  Fitting the spare lamp irons out of the parts bag requires even more time and a very steady hand.  Two points that I noted.  The smears of black tack on the front of the engine left after pulling the lamps off can be washed off with white spirit.  Secondly the spare lamp irons are not a perfec fit for the openings.  The front centre lamp iron seems big and I took time cleaning the opening in the footplate.  The opening on the smoke box door is massive and the iron slops around.  Usefully the door is removable - being held on by magnets - so you can get to the rear of the lamp iron.  I have refitted my lampirons using butanone (MEK).  For the lamp iron in the fooplate this softened the plastic sufficient to wedge the 'foot' into the opening.

 

Below is a picture of the smoke box door and the diode.  I am gussing that the door has to be removeable to do something with the smoke generator.

 

thanks for that post, also note the led board is connected with a JST connector, so if you really wanted the light out, you could unplug it.

interesting the two return wires, suggests they are also going to the leds behind the bufferbeam, so disconnecting that jst could turn them all off, for those who dont want working lights.

Edited June 6 by adb968008

[maico]

On 05/06/2024 at 14:15, Ian Hargrave said:

But you may still be left with over bright,glaring LED. Hardly representative of a Black 5…unless it’s a WCRC version of course 

 

Even a 5-year old knows how to dim a LED!

Edited June 6 by maico

[Ian Hargrave]

4 minutes ago, maico said:

 

Even a 5-year old knows how to dim a LED!

Enlighten me. Being long past my 5th birthday.

[maico]

10 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Enlighten me. Being long past my 5th birthday.

 

Posca water based markers kids play with. A little dab of black or gray and wipe to a thin layer.

[Mouldy Raspberry]

I’ve just had a go at removing the lamps from my example of 45157.  A bit fiddly (mine were firmly glued on) but I’ve fitted the lamp irons from the detail pack and have a ModelU lamp on there now that I can easily change the position of. 

 

One thing to note is that my loco cogged slightly at very slow speeds right out the box, but after running in this has improved significantly.  It’s now running really smoothly. I did also replace the smokebox door dart with one I can reposition.  
 

[ColinB]

4 hours ago, maico said:

 

Even a 5-year old knows how to dim a LED!

Do they? In the old days yes you lowered the current. When I was fitting lights into an old diesel I found with a lot of these high brightness ones like the lighthouse ones, they are bright no matter the current. Obviously if you reduce it enough they don't shine at all.

[ColinB]

Do you know the more I look at those lights the worse it looks. They could of had a smaller lamp with a fibre optic light guide. As I have always said anything electrical or electronic Hornby are useless at it.

[MattR]

4 hours ago, Mouldy Raspberry said:

I’ve just had a go at removing the lamps from my example of 45157.  A bit fiddly (mine were firmly glued on) but I’ve fitted the lamp irons from the detail pack and have a ModelU lamp on there now that I can easily change the position of. 

 

Hooray, you're on RMweb now! Your work has always been my biggest inspiration.

[JohnR]

Are the lamps controlled by DCC? If so can you adjust the brightness that way?

[zr2498]

15 minutes ago, JohnR said:

Are the lamps controlled by DCC? If so can you adjust the brightness that way?

I expect that would be the case once a decoder is fitted. It might depend on the decoder type?

[Silver Sidelines]

I have updated my video to show 44755 running with lamp irons and no lights.  I have also ballasted the engine with some lead to a total weight of 300gm.  (It can get up my gradient now!) 

 

As others have suggested the lack of a smoke generator leaves quite a lot of space - so there are a number of options for adding extra weight.   Mine is a lovely quiet and free running model.

 

 

Edited June 6 by Silver Sidelines