Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling

[Corbs]

Helix tests were a bit disappointing, 2 Bachmann coaches seemed to be the limit (though this may have been unfair as they drag sooo much). 

Slightly better with short goods train but the strangest thing was the plough catching on something and then removing itself from the loco.... but now is nowhere to be found! It must be somewhere in the layout room but we can't find it.

[Ian Hargrave]

14 minutes ago, Corbs said:

Helix tests were a bit disappointing, 2 Bachmann coaches seemed to be the limit (though this may have been unfair as they drag sooo much). 

Slightly better with short goods train but the strangest thing was the plough catching on something and then removing itself from the loco.... but now is nowhere to be found! It must be somewhere in the layout room but we can't find it.

 

My first run under load was with 4  Bachmann Mk1 & a Bachmann Collett. The Caprotti slipped for England & simply couldn’t move it. But then I tried hauling them with a Hornby S15.That couldn’t either.

I then changed tack to something more prototypical with Bachmann LMR Portholes x 3 and Thompson ER X 4 a (sort of ) typical inter regional mix of the early 1950’s. This 44755 manages right through all ranges on the Gaugemaster effortlessly.I couldn’t be better pleased with its performance. 

[John Isherwood]

10 hours ago, IOW O2 said:

Don't be so patronising.  

 

Have read entire thread.  The point was what was obtainable for lighting in N gauge years ago by another manufacturer.

 

OK - please name the N gauge models that have had working, removeable lights.

 

CJI.

[No Decorum]

13 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I wonder how much market research Hornby will do. Do they know how many have bought this model because of the lamps?. I can definitely tell them I have not bought 2 because of the lights (and the tender coupling) . 

Not all that long ago, I bought all three boiler variations offered by Hornby and I feel no need of another similar Black 5. However, if the Caprotti had been produced to a similar standard as my existing Black 5s, I would have been very keen to get one. For the same two reasons you give, I have not bought one. A pity; perhaps in future, Hornby will see the light knock one out omitting the lights and closing the loco-tender gap.

[Black 5 Bear]

4 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Not all that long ago, I bought all three boiler variations offered by Hornby and I feel no need of another similar Black 5. However, if the Caprotti had been produced to a similar standard as my existing Black 5s, I would have been very keen to get one. For the same two reasons you give, I have not bought one. A pity; perhaps in future, Hornby will see the light knock one out omitting the lights and closing the loco-tender gap.

Maybe tweaks will be made to the S+S version due in the Autumn?

Lamps and lamp irons confined to the detailing pack, leaving the consumer with the decision of "to fit or not to fit", is IMHO the way forward!

[Ian Hargrave]

26 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Maybe tweaks will be made to the S+S version due in the Autumn?

Lamps and lamp irons confined to the detailing pack, leaving the consumer with the decision of "to fit or not to fit", is IMHO the way forward!

Good idea.But would require a rethink with regard to the circuitry.

[GrumpyPenguin]

14 hours ago, IOW O2 said:

If Fleischmann could put working lights on my N gauge German 2-10-0, 45 years ago, seems odd Hornby have gone for O gauge size.  Ooh, perhaps they were aiming at the toy market, so kids could ogle at them lit up.

True, however, don't forget with European practice it was usually a question of all on or all off.

FWIW Fleischmann & other manufactures used one tiny bulb/lamp/globe & a form of light tube (albeit square) to channel the light source to the actual light.

[GrumpyPenguin]

11 hours ago, IOW O2 said:

Don't be so patronising.  

 

Have read entire thread.  The point was what was obtainable for lighting in N gauge years ago by another manufacturer.

I'm afraid that there are many UK modellers who hate being reminded of how far ahead European manufacturers were (& probably still are) of UK offerings.

 

I fully expect that if European locomotives used any form of headcodes that the manufactures would be able to do it.

[GrumpyPenguin]

9 hours ago, JaymzHatstand said:

 And @Corbs has certainly done a good job of improving the lamps, though they are still oversized, that has been countered somewhat.

Maybe, they are oversized to compensate for the wheels being too close together.............

(Sorry, could not resist that one).

[GrumpyPenguin]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

OK - please name the N gauge models that have had working, removeable lights.

 

CJI.

Not required in Europe, anyway the point was refering to the size oif the lamps - thesedays using tiny LEDs.

[zr2498]

17 minutes ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

 

 

I fully expect that if European locomotives used any form of headcodes that the manufactures would be able to do it.

Ja natürlich. Kein Problem

[Black 5 Bear]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Good idea.But would require a rethink with regard to the circuitry.

Thinking about it Ian, Hornby could leave the basic circuitry as it is and just give the consumers the opportunity  to make up their own mind?

Granted, the provision of the smoke unit will be different to the standard DCC ready version, due largely to the available space for the water chamber.

I may well be wrong, but I wouldn't have thought the mechanism and lighting will be materially different on the S+S offering.

Edited June 3 by Black 5 Bear

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

Not required in Europe, anyway the point was refering to the size oif the lamps - thesedays using tiny LEDs.

 

Now you're being obtuse!

 

The whole point is that the fixed light technology used in Europe is not applicable to the UK, where moveable lights are required.

 

Anyway - we're not part of Europe (any more).

 

CJI.

[IOW O2]

1 hour ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

Not required in Europe, anyway the point was refering to the size oif the lamps - thesedays using tiny LEDs.

That was the point I was making, thank you. perhaps I should edit the post!

 

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

OK - please name the N gauge models that have had working, removeable lights.

I didn't mention removeable.

 

10 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Anyway - we're not part of Europe (any more).

What's that got to with it.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I've reached out to Wikipedia and found this:

"The formation of Europe as a coherent landmass dates to after the breakup of Pangaea, taking place during the Oligocene and completed by the early Neogene period, some 20 million years ago."

So we're still part of Europe...

Love this thread drift; bit like continental drift but on a smaller scale.

[sjp23480]

1 hour ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Love this thread drift; bit like continental drift but on a smaller scale.

Given some of the seismic comments, plate tectonics seems more apt!

 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Of course, I could say those lamps are trying to imitate the Northern Lights, but I won't.

 

[GrumpyPenguin]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

Anyway - we're not part of Europe (any more).

But we are not completly out of it either.

[No Decorum]

3 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Good idea.But would require a rethink with regard to the circuitry.

Agreed. I’d suggest removing it entirely and provide scale non-working lamps which could be placed onto the appropriate lampirons. A lot of our money could have been saved if that had been done at the outset.

 

I have for decades feared the advent of working lamps on steam locomotives which would render all my steam models obsolete. What Hornby has tried to do is not, IMHO, a good approach. How I have envisaged it being done is the lampirons being one polarity, with contacts at their bases (but electrically isolated) for the opposite polarity. Either two wires or one, with electrical return though the body. Obviously, difficult to achieve in 00 scale. I could foresee difficulty in making good electrical contact with the base of a removable  lamp but magnets (all the rage these days) might do the job.

 

Other manufacturers for the UK market have produced working lights. Heljan introduced them on the 05s and made a very neat job of it, even if the lights were more suited to mainline running than shunting. Bachmann did a good job on brake coaches but that was against a solid coach body, which was easier to do than a tiny lamp standing proud. Dapol has fitted them to their toplight coaches but with exactly the same drawback as Hornby: an unlit lamp permanently fixed where there shouldn’t be one at all. Oddly, Hornby fitted headcode lights (in an odd configuration) to a Duchess long before the advent of LEDs. Light pipes were used. It has been pointed out that a fixed headcode would be all right for an express steamer like a Duchess but it wouldn’t suit a mixed traffic machine. If only Hornby had produced lights as neat as Heljan’s on the Turbomotive!

[billy_anorak59]

6 hours ago, Corbs said:

Slightly better with short goods train but the strangest thing was the plough catching on something and then removing itself from the loco.... but now is nowhere to be found! It must be somewhere in the layout room but we can't find it.

 

Have you looked behind the lamps...?

😀

[jjb1970]

I might reach out to Hornby to suggest there might be opportunities to leverage synergies with their European brands and develop a holistic transverse approach when developing locomotive lighting solutions.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

With my sensible hat on, here are the allocations for 44755-44757, which the Hornby model represents. I've looked at three sources, all of which slightly vary. But this is the consensus, +/- a month:

 

44755  5.48 Derby

             6.48 Holbeck

             9.61 Stockport Edgeley

            11.63 Withdrawn

 

44756  6.48 Holbeck

            11.63 Lower Darwen
               "     Southport

             9.64 Withdrawn

 

44757 12.48 Holbeck

             11.63 Lower Darwen

               "      Southport

             11.65 Withdrawn
 

Just looked through my old Ian Allan Combines, and I never saw any of 'em. 
 

 

 

 

 

           

[MattR]

6 hours ago, No Decorum said:

It’s particularly bad when we adopt Americanisms.

 

It's even worse when Americans adopt Americanisms!

 

As a former newspaper copy editor, I hate lots of words and phrases, especially longer ones that are somehow trying to replace short ones:

 

Reach out = contact

Price point = price

Heathlful = healthy

Wellness = health

Located = at

Utilize = use

 

[JohnR]

Still think Hornby missed a trick by not copying Bachmann and releasing different levels of detail, ie one without the lamps, one with and with sound, and then the deluxe with the smoke. 

[adb968008]

22 hours ago, GrumpyPenguin said:

True, however, don't forget with European practice it was usually a question of all on or all off.

FWIW Fleischmann & other manufactures used one tiny bulb/lamp/globe & a form of light tube (albeit square) to channel the light source to the actual light.

No reason why Hornby couldnt do the same, i’m not aware of a situation where UK steam locos had some lamps lit, others unlit when mounted on the front irons.

 

 

Edited June 4 by adb968008