Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling

[John Isherwood]

5 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Once upon a time we called that all a part of "modelling"...

 

The problem with the internet is that so much is now available online that there is an expectation that it all should be reproduced in the box - to save the trouble of looking online.

 

I have just been forced to take for recycling 650 kg. of model and prototype railway magazines, covering the last 60 years - many continuous runs - because NO-ONE wanted them. These had been my sources for model railway research throught my modelling life, and I have a digital index of every article / photo that could possibly be of future interest.

 

Much / most of the information has subsequently been duplicated within my extensive library of railway books, so I decided that I would save my offspring what has proved to be a very physically onerous task of taking the magazine collection for recycling. It was something of a heart-rending task - almost like saying a last goodbye to an old and faithful friend!

 

John Isherwood.

Edited May 21 by cctransuk

[ikks]

12 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

The problem with the internet is that so much is now available online that there is an expectation that it all should be reproduced in the box - to save the trouble of looking online.

 

I have just been forced to take for recycling 650 kg. of model and prototype railway magazines, covering the last 60 years - many continuous runs - because NO-ONE wanted them. These had been my sources for model railway research throught my modelling life, and I have an digital index of every article / photo that could possibly be of future interest.

 

Much / most of the information has subsequently been duplicated within my extensive library of railway books, so I decided that I would save my offspring what has proved to be a very physically onerous task of taking the magazine collection for recycling. It was something of a heart-rending task - almost like saying a last goodbye to an old and faithful friend!

 

John Isherwood.

I did the same a couple of years ago.....tugs at the heartstrings but closing on 80 y.o just had to make a decision. Same wth my locos and stock (most of which have hardly been out of the box except for 20 minutes each way onthe rolling road.

Mike

[Dunsignalling]

49 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

The problem with the internet is that so much is now available online that there is an expectation that it all should be reproduced in the box - to save the trouble of looking online.

 

I have just been forced to take for recycling 650 kg. of model and prototype railway magazines, covering the last 60 years - many continuous runs - because NO-ONE wanted them. These had been my sources for model railway research throught my modelling life, and I have an digital index of every article / photo that could possibly be of future interest.

 

Much / most of the information has subsequently been duplicated within my extensive library of railway books, so I decided that I would save my offspring what has proved to be a very physically onerous task of taking the magazine collection for recycling. It was something of a heart-rending task - almost like saying a last goodbye to an old and faithful friend!

 

John Isherwood.

I went through my magazine stack some years ago, filleted out the articles I thought I might need, and neatly filed everything away in those loose-leaf sleeves.

 

Even those have run riot two decades on, and now I'm thinning the files!

 

I've been very struck by a few things

 

1. How often the same subjects get covered, I found half a dozen treatises on representing thatch in model form and kept the two I judged I could manage.

 

2. How much had been rendered redundant by widening availability of good RTR equivalents. The article on making a Brighton Atlantic by cutting and shutting two Tri-ang B12 bodies is definitely only a curiosity since the Bachmann one arrived!

 

3. It's amazing the new materials, techniques and technology that sneaks up on one and how much of the stuff we once used by custom, and the ways we used it, has been superseded by better, or easier (but seldom cheaper) alternatives.

 

 

John

 

 

Edited May 21 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, No Decorum said:

Obviously, the manufacturers (with a notable exception) will have done their research, which would be the hard part of the work done. I wouldn’t have thought that it would take major effort to add it to the instructions.

Fair enough for the one loco, perhaps, but where do you stop with a class of that size?

[No Decorum]

16 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Fair enough for the one loco, perhaps, but where do you stop with a class of that size?

Not to mention the many variations. Nevertheless, manufacturers do a lot of research and they have the information. Not only that, they provide extra bits in a bag; the bang plate has been mentioned here recently. It does seem to me that the difficult and expensive work has been done and adding it to instructions would be relatively easy. Most of us are keen for the hobby to continue after our deaths (manufacturers are even keener) and new entrants are unlikely to have the depth of knowledge and printed resources which many of us have acquired over a long time.

[John Isherwood]

14 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Not to mention the many variations. Nevertheless, manufacturers do a lot of research and they have the information. Not only that, they provide extra bits in a bag; the bang plate has been mentioned here recently. It does seem to me that the difficult and expensive work has been done and adding it to instructions would be relatively easy. Most of us are keen for the hobby to continue after our deaths (manufacturers are even keener) and new entrants are unlikely to have the depth of knowledge and printed resources which many of us have acquired over a long time.

 

I have a Brassmasters kit for the Black 5, which came

with a comprehensive breakdown of the prototype variations in the form of a substantial booklet.

 

This was essential in order to select which variant was to be built from the many optional parts provided.

 

I would NOT expect such comprehensive information to be provided with an RTR model.

 

Future generations without our research resources will not be aware of, or care about the prototype variations.

 

CJI.

[No Decorum]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I have a Brassmasters kit for the Black 5, which came

with a comprehensive breakdown of the prototype variations in the form of a substantial booklet.

 

This was essential in order to select which variant was to be built from the many optional parts provided.

 

I would NOT expect such comprehensive information to be provided with an RTR model.

 

Future generations without our research resources will not be aware of, or care about the prototype variations.

 

CJI.

On the contrary, for me at any rate, a great deal of the pleasure and satisfaction of the hobby is learning about the real thing, which never ends. There is now increasing interest in pre-grouping, which none of us knew at first hand, yet the interest in prototype variations is lively. Whilst unable to prove it, I feel sure that future generations will be no different.

[John Isherwood]

1 minute ago, No Decorum said:

On the contrary, for me at any rate, a great deal of the pleasure and satisfaction of the hobby is learning about the real thing, which never ends.

 

Agreed - but I wouldn't expect to do my research within the contents of the box of a RTR model.

 

CJI.

[MikeParkin65]

48 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

On the contrary, for me at any rate, a great deal of the pleasure and satisfaction of the hobby is learning about the real thing, which never ends. There is now increasing interest in pre-grouping, which none of us knew at first hand, yet the interest in prototype variations is lively. Whilst unable to prove it, I feel sure that future generations will be no different.

Agree - I'm always learning something new and thats part of the joy of the hobby. Lots of quality research sources available especially through the second hand book market where quality publications can be bought for very low prices. Conversely there seems to be a mass of new books coming on stream the vast majority of which are mediocre at best. There is also the rewriting of history which I approach very cautiously. This forum of course is fantastic for sharing and learning.

44 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Agreed - but I wouldn't expect to do my research within the contents of the box of a RTR model.

 

Agree to a point but no reason why a manufacturer can't cite their reference sources for the model in the box and a brief description of what period the model is meant to portray. Thats just sharing research and takes nothing away from those of us who want to dig deeper.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

Not to mention the many variations. Nevertheless, manufacturers do a lot of research and they have the information. Not only that, they provide extra bits in a bag; the bang plate has been mentioned here recently. It does seem to me that the difficult and expensive work has been done and adding it to instructions would be relatively easy. Most of us are keen for the hobby to continue after our deaths (manufacturers are even keener) and new entrants are unlikely to have the depth of knowledge and printed resources which many of us have acquired over a long time.

Including a potted history of the individual loco in its box might be possible so long as the works cards were  complete and accurate (as summarised in the "Book of the ---"  type volumes) and, far more to the point, have survived.

 

However, that's no use if the purchaser wants to renumber the loco. If people want to go beyond the easy they'll need to put in some personal effort (or expense in buying books). The likelihood of finding everything one might need to know about every loco BR owned on line is negligible.  

 

Access to such information is a good argument for joining clubs or groups and line societies. But its unreasonable to expect people who have put in months or years of effort researching prototypes to disseminate the info on a plate, free of charge. 

 

John

 

 

[Wheatley]

18 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Fair enough for the one loco, perhaps, but where do you stop with a class of that size?

 

They don't need to include reams of information, just the photo(s) they were working from when they settled on that livery/number variation. That would have solved the Hornby piebald blue/white fish van question a lot quicker too.  

 

Like Bachmann used to do (admittedly inconsistently) for the box art. 

Edited May 22 by Wheatley

[MikeParkin65]

8 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

But its unreasonable to expect people who have put in months or years of effort researching prototypes to disseminate the info on a plate, free of charge. 

No it isnt! Hornby make a model of LMS 5200  - they've clearly researched that, no reason not to include just such a potted history. Likewise the bag of bits - literally a note say 'post 1957 only' for the bang plate. Costs them nothing. In fact they do pretty much that on the box of the 9F I've just bought

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

No it isnt! Hornby make a model of LMS 5200  - they've clearly researched that, no reason not to include just such a potted history. Likewise the bag of bits - literally a note say 'post 1957 only' for the bang plate. Costs them nothing. In fact they do pretty much that on the box of the 9F I've just bought

 

If you read all of my post, the point I was making related to any other loco identity the purchaser might want to apply.

 

 

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

If you read all of my post, the point I was making related to any other loco identity the purchaser might want to apply.

 

 

 

 

Doesnt read like that to me but fair enough if thats what you mean. 

[zr2498]

Just watched an interview by Dawn with Martyn Weaver on U-tube. Dawn's channel makes for excellent viewing. Martyn comes across rather well, however when asked about the Black 5 the answer was not very promising. At 24:40.

Altough he did say some with lamps and some without.

 

 

 

Edited May 23 by zr2498
Spelling

[daltonparva]

Regarding the loco I bought on 01/05 that seemed to run ok, looked ok, but had a couple of lighting faults:-

On DC the front lights showed white in both directions, evidently they should only work in a forwards direction.

On DCC the front lights were on permanently, F0 made no difference; the rear light would switch on/off with F0 but only the white aspect worked, the red didn't. Same result with 3 different Loksounds, 1 HM7000, 1 standard non-sound 21-pin.

 

I emailed Hornby on 05/05, over a week later got a response, and following further emails/phone calls I sent it back to Hornby on 15/05. Got it back today.

 

Placed it on track, lights came on, front ones only working in forwards direction now but loco wouldn't move. Disconnected/reconnected tender and loco now ran. Moved loco to curved track to test, wouldn't move again. Worked out that by inserting finger between cab roof and tender made loco work by slightly moving the loco/tender connector apart. Cleaned loco connector - no difference. Peered down tender connector - noted some contacts appeared to stand prouder than others, carefully separated two halves of connector, adjusted contacts, loco now runs but don't have faith in this continuing to work faultlessly into the future. Loco now appears to operate correctly on DC

 

Refitted sound decoder, front lights now switch on/off on F0 and only work going forwards, - good.  Rear light with same problem - no red aspect - bad.

Back to emailing Hornby and waiting for response. 

 

One other thing I noticed, probably due to position of wheels on return, the slide bars on both sides can't be parallel as the slider looks like it could be in danger of falling out at the open end of the bars. It hasn't yet as I have only tested it back and forwards on a 6' test track going slowly, but it isn't inspiring confidence.

 

Will update again when there's something to say.

[Widnes Model Centre]

 

We are reliably informed this  modeller has solved the problems with Black Five. 

 

Credit to Ashton Model Centre who put me onto this. 

Edited May 23 by Widnes Model Centre

[zr2498]

39 minutes ago, daltonparva said:

 

One other thing I noticed, probably due to position of wheels on return, the slide bars on both sides can't be parallel as the slider looks like it could be in danger of falling out at the open end of the bars. It hasn't yet as I have only tested it back and forwards on a 6' test track going slowly, but it isn't inspiring confidence.

 

 

Mike on Key Model World video has a problem with the slide bars. Said there is too much distance between them, so the cross head came out and was difficult to re-engage.

Something to check out along with the tightness of crank pins.

 

[Free At Last]

1 hour ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

We are reliably informed this  modeller has solved the problems with Black Five. 

 

Credit to Ashton Model Centre who put me onto this. 

He was that amazed with the detail he didn't notice the smokebox door handle was missing.

Edited May 23 by Free At Last

[daltonparva]

Besides mising the smokebox dart that I posted and removed after the first 10 mins of the reviewers video, as it was mentioned in the post above, I am now up to 20 mins of this video; and I can hardly catch my breath. The reviewer thinks the loco/tender connector has only 4 contacts; it has 8. He has completely missed the 4 underneath, If he has actually improved his loco it was a fluke. I have had the tender connector apart, you cannot adjust them from the sides, you have to take the connector apart and it's not for the faint hearted, the contacts are very small.

Edited May 23 by daltonparva

[Widnes Model Centre]

29 minutes ago, Free At Last said:

He was that amazed with the detail he didn't notice the smokebox door handle was missing.

I haven’t watched the video, l was asked to share as another shop said he had fixed the problem with the shops loco. 

[Widnes Model Centre]

35 minutes ago, daltonparva said:

Besides mising the smokebox dart that I posted and removed after the first 10 mins of the reviewers video, as it was mentioned in the post above, I am now up to 20 mins of this video; and I can hardly catch my breath. The reviewer thinks the loco/tender connector has only 4 contacts; it has 8. He has completely missed the 4 underneath, If he has actually improved his loco it was a fluke. I have had the tender connector apart, you cannot adjust them from the sides, you have to take the connector apart and it's not for the faint hearted, the contacts are very small.

My understanding is this guy had examined all eight pins, identifying that two upper outside pins  were out of sync. He only fixed the ones that needed fixing. 
Being out of breath watching a video could be serious 🧐 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Hope you gave him a discount for the missing smokebox door...

[daltonparva]

12 minutes ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

My understanding is this guy had examined all eight pins, identifying that two upper outside pins  were out of sync. He only fixed the ones that needed fixing. 
Being out of breath watching a video could be serious 🧐 

Please watch the video, between mins 10-20 should be enough, and take a nebuliser with you.

[Widnes Model Centre]

10 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Hope you gave him a discount for the missing smokebox door...

We haven’t received our allocation yet. So, no, we don’t give discounts on something we haven’t had delivered. You may have missed in my post the credit was to Ashton Model Centre who made me aware of the video.