RMweb Gold The Pilotman Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2022 I recently came across a picture on here taken at West Worthing where there appears to be a turnback siding between the up and down lines used by terminating services. Until I saw this picture, I was only aware of such a siding at Bedwyn on the Berks & Hants route; the limit of the “suburban” service from London/Reading/Newbury. Are there any other examples of such sidings just beyond a station where services terminate but the main line continues? I’m thinking particularly of British main line practice (ie. not the London Underground etc.) in the last fifty years but I don’t mean bay platforms where some trains terminate at larger through stations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Hall Road on the Lancashire & Yorkshire's Liverpool - Southport line was one. Half the electric services terminated there then returned to Liverpool Exchange station, the others continued to Southport Chapel Street. Unfortunately, there was a serious collision in the siding in 1905. https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BoT_HallRoad1905.pdf 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 West Croydon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 There's also Bowes Park on the Hertford Loop, but I think that is (was?) used more for empty stock in/out of Bounds Green depot than terminating passenger trains. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike_Walker Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 Maidenhead. Between the Up and Down Relief lines west of the station. It was added as part of the Crossrail works when it was intended to terminate all services there rather tan Reading. Now sees only limited use. There is one at Gidea Park between the Electric (Slow) Lines east of the station and another one at Chadwell Heath both for reversing Crossrail services. Willesden Junction High Level also has one. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 A fascinating variation on the theme, albeit with one very long platform along side the turnback sidings, was Bournemouth. A TC and REP combination would arrive from London. A class 33/1 came from turnback siding on to the front and took the TC on to Weymouth. The REP cars then go to turnback sidings before going to the up platform shortly before the next TC & 33/1 arrive from Weymouth. The TC couples to REP, the 33/1 uncouples and runs to the siding while the train continues to London. Repeat all day! Seen here in later days when class 73s replaced the REP power cars which were donating their motors to the Wessex Electrics then in build. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Horsforth between Leeds and Harrogate. Goole. Not sure what the arrangements are at Knottingley. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bendall Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Kidderminster, turnback siding by the box, opposite the Severn Valley carriage shed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium SM42 Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) Wembley Stadium Longbridge Gerrards Cross Bicester North Just thought of Worcester Foregate Street, although the siding is a little bit of a trek out to Henwick Andy Edited January 8, 2022 by SM42 Add location 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Harrow & Wealdstone has two. They are only used by Underground trains but they are Network Rail infrastructure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Highbridge and Burnham, (where the trains used the up reversible goods loop to reverse). cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Wheatley said: Horsforth between Leeds and Harrogate. Goole. Not sure what the arrangements are at Knottingley. Not at Knottingley, and I'm not sure the siding at Goole would be classed as a turnback siding, but I stand to be corrected. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 15 minutes ago, Edwin_m said: Harrow & Wealdstone has two. They are only used by Underground trains but they are Network Rail infrastructure. Had two. Now there's only one. The 'in the middle' type of turnback tends to be favoured where there are intensive services, as on the London Underground, simply because it has fewer conflicting movements. The main line railways could generally find enough time between trains to get trains in and out of 'outside' reversing sidings, but there (inevitably) exceptions. Maidenhead is one, but there line capacity is already tight and there will have been a strong TfL influence. A not dissimilar situation exists now at West Drayton, where the old Uxbridge/Staines branch platform was given facing connections off the up relief and electrified, whilst the up relief platform was made bidirectional. Liverpool Central on the Southport Lines is another example, where an 'inside' reversing siding was created by making a new bypass tunnel for the southbound services to Hunts Cross. 4 hours ago, LMS2968 said: Hall Road on the Lancashire & Yorkshire's Liverpool - Southport line was one. Half the electric services terminated there then returned to Liverpool Exchange station, the others continued to Southport Chapel Street. Unfortunately, there was a serious collision in the siding in 1905. https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BoT_HallRoad1905.pdf Hall Road siding still exists, albeit rarely used, but is the last remains of what used to be a substantial electric depot on that side of the line. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Burnham Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Just north of Tottenham Hale for reversing North Woolwich / Stratford trains pre electrification of the line through Lea Bridge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Wallington Station in Surrey had a turnback siding between the mainlines. The headshunt for it can be seem in this picture, courtesy of Geograph. Occasional trains from London Bridge and Victoria, via West Croydon, would terminate at Wallington. When the siding was removed, the mainline tracks were left as they were, so the down line makes a chassé side step to this day. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) Kensal Green on the North London Line had one, just past Willesden High Level station. It was between the NLL tracks and these had the WCML and the DC Low Level connecting tracks on either side. Don't think they're there now but there is still a turnback, slightly further down the line and off to one side of the NLL. https://www.roscalen.com/signals/London/NLL.htm EDIT: after reading the page, it mentions that the original layout may be reinstated but I don't know if it has been or not. Edited January 8, 2022 by keefer 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) Video showing the Kensal Green layout in 2017 https://youtu.be/RaxuffBin_c At 15:08 you can see the turnback siding on the right. At 16:00, after going under the road bridge, there is the location of the original turnback (in the centre). Notice there is a siding there again, will need to investigate further which trains use it. Edited January 8, 2022 by keefer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 From 2018 https://youtu.be/IcTl0Jf20f0 From about 22:30 it shows the same area, with the new turnback in use for Clapham Jcn. trains which terminate at Willesden High Level. I don't know if any trains which come off the DC lines (at Willesden Low Level) turnback, in which case they would have to use the other siding (nearer Kensal Rise) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Banger Blue Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) Oxford: The "Down Oxford Turnback Line" sits between the Down Carriage Sidings and the Down Oxford Relief. Edited January 8, 2022 by Banger Blue Adding Track Diagram. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Burnham Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 5 hours ago, Tom Burnham said: Just north of Tottenham Hale for reversing North Woolwich / Stratford trains pre electrification of the line through Lea Bridge. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 hours ago, Nick Holliday said: Wallington Station in Surrey had a turnback siding between the mainlines. The headshunt for it can be seem in this picture, courtesy of Geograph. Occasional trains from London Bridge and Victoria, via West Croydon, would terminate at Wallington. When the siding was removed, the mainline tracks were left as they were, so the down line makes a chassé side step to this day. The 2308 from Victoria would terminate and berth overnight in that siding. I can't recall the starting service for the next day, but know there was a guard whose depot was Wallington and assume he always either started the morning train on early turn, or berthed it on late turn! This was the late '60s. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike_Walker Posted January 8, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2022 26 minutes ago, Banger Blue said: Oxford: The "Down Oxford Turnback Line" sits between the Down Carriage Sidings and the Down Oxford Relief. I recognise that - I drew it! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, jim.snowdon said: The 'in the middle' type of turnback tends to be favoured where there are intensive services, as on the London Underground, simply because it has fewer conflicting movements. The main line railways could generally find enough time between trains to get trains in and out of 'outside' reversing sidings, but there (inevitably) exceptions. Conversely, on a main line railway there will often be non-stop trains passing through fairly fast so curves on the through tracks must be fairly gentle. Splaying the lines out to provide a centre turnback therefore has to extend over a much greater length than the turnback itself at both ends, and may involve buying up quite a lot of extra land. This becomes even more of a problem if a walkway is needed alongside the turnback for the driver to change ends. A side turnback only needs land for its own length plus that of the points connecting it to the nearest through track. There is a centre turnback on the Slow lines north of St Albans City. Edited January 8, 2022 by Edwin_m 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) On 08/01/2022 at 15:05, iands said: Not at Knottingley, and I'm not sure the siding at Goole would be classed as a turnback siding, but I stand to be corrected. Thanks I've got a feeling they stand on a goods line or loop at Knottingley but its a long time since I've been there. Goole was not originally a turnback siding but that's what it's used for unless something's changed recently. I once had a very interesting conversation there with the local Environmental Health officer about a complaint from a local councillor that trains standing on it behind their house were causing a noise nuisance. Cllr Whatsisname's solution was that they should stand further along the siding where they were annoying other ratepayers instead. Edited January 10, 2022 by Wheatley 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Pilotman Posted January 10, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 So, it seems this arrangement was more common than I realised. Many thanks to all the relevant contributors. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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