A look at the Hawksworths

[Rugd1022]

Or you could be absolutely prototypical and have a 'Modified Hall' in full GW livery as one survived in that condition until the mid 1950s

 

You are a tease Mike!

 

Ref the full brakes, obviously until we have one in our sticky mitts we don't know how to dismantle them (possibly to remove the glazing if needed) but I guess a repaint into BR blue wouldn't be too difficult. Likewise with the gangways, It shouldn't be too much to remove them and plate the area over, I've done it with a few old Lima Syphon Gs in the past and it was a quick and easy job.

 

Here's W333 at Toddington last year...

 

Nidge

[craigwelsh]

I just went out and got my brake 3rd and full brake from Waltons in Altrincham so i'll have a look later at how it comes apart. I'm not too confident that there wont be glue though after my experience with later Stanier purchases .

 

 

On the plus side the glazing is properly flush in these unlike the Stanier full brake!

[iak]

Hopefully a well known Liverpool box shifter will have theirs soon.

An extended drive hame beckons methinks.

The glazing plus sounds excellent Craig

I know have not any dissections in ages but it looks like the auld skills will have to get polished up then

[Porcy Mane]

I just went out and got my brake 3rd and full brake from Waltons in Altrincham so i'll have a look later at how it comes apart. I'm not too confident that there wont be glue though after my experience with later Stanier purchases .

 

 

On the plus side the glazing is properly flush in these unlike the Stanier full brake!

 

Four clips (Extensions to the glazing) at the extreme corners. Turn the bogies slightly to access, push toward centre of coach and the floor pulls away from the body. The glazing was removed from the body with a bit of gentle levering using a SM no 17 blade. No great dramas there.

My all third clipped back together now and into storage awaiting conversion to Dynamometer car.

 

Porcy

[iak]

Ooooo now then...

A successful operation then B)

[craigwelsh]

Four clips (Extensions to the glazing) at the extreme corners. Turn the bogies slightly to access, push toward centre of coach and the floor pulls away from the body. The glazing was removed from the body with a bit of gentle levering using a SM no 17 blade. No great dramas there.

My all third clipped back together now and into storage awaiting conversion to Dynamometer car.

 

Porcy

Had to take the bogies off to get the clips removed on the ends of my full brake as you couldn't do it by pushing the sides in, the sides of the coach in the middle need pulling out a little too to release clips there as per the Staniers.

 

Two bogie steps snapped off already, they should have been in metal as the body attached steps were.

 

Note the full brake has no interior and the corridor connectors are stuffed with a block of polystyrene to stop them warping!

[Guest Max Stafford]

It's got tiny little stepboards on the bogie ends, inboard of the axle boxes and in line with the central coil springs, Larry. Does that sound right to you?

Loooks a really nice model I must say!

 

Dave.

[Jamie]

Loooks a really nice model I must say!

 

Dave.

 

Need an ScR prototype shot Dave?

 

Believe this was the 6.40am ex Inchkennet:

http://georgestrainpics.fotopic.net/p64127410.html

 

[Guest Max Stafford]

Oh, good spot, Jamie. That'll do nicely...!

 

Dave.

[talyllyn1]

For those interested on the two "royal" Hawksworth BCK's in BR chocolate and cream, there is colour shot of them,taken at Newport in 1965, on this website.

 

http://www.robertdarlaston.co.uk/Railways5.htm

 

A great website! Scroll down past half way for the Hawksworths.

 

The nearer one is W7377W and I think the other is W7372W. 7377 is now at Buckfastleigh and 7372 at Didcot.

[chrisf]

The two royal duties ones lasted long enough to go straight to BR choc cream.. chrisf is the man with the details there though, i'd had too big a hangover to remember the numbers of them i'm afraid!

 

I'd be amazed if Hornby didn't do the GWR livery as no doubt many will buy them anyway for choc box layouts without any worries about them being a post war design..

 

I should expand on what Craig has raised, with apologies for the delay as I've been away.

 

Two Hawksworth brake composites, 7372 and 7377, came out in 1949 in GW chocolate and cream and were collared straight away for special duties, ie Royal trains and VIP duties, usually working with one or more of the VIP saloons 9001-7. The good old Railway Observer has many reports of their wanderings. They were kept in a shed at Old Oak out of harm's way and managed to escape blood and custard altogether. When the WR started using chocolate and cream these vehicles received it. 7377 survived to receive GW livery on the South Devon Railway.

 

As far as I know the only other Hawksworth coaches to receive BR choc/cream were the three BCKs that were converted to slip coaches in 1958, viz 7374/5/6, and the SK that became a dynamometer car which I think survives. Robert Carroll is far better qualified than I to pronounce on this but he wasn't in the pub with me and Craig!

 

Chris

[robertcwp]

I should expand on what Craig has raised, with apologies for the delay as I've been away.

 

Two Hawksworth brake composites, 7372 and 7377, came out in 1949 in GW chocolate and cream and were collared straight away for special duties, ie Royal trains and VIP duties, usually working with one or more of the VIP saloons 9001-7. The good old Railway Observer has many reports of their wanderings. They were kept in a shed at Old Oak out of harm's way and managed to escape blood and custard altogether. When the WR started using chocolate and cream these vehicles received it. 7377 survived to receive GW livery on the South Devon Railway.

 

As far as I know the only other Hawksworth coaches to receive BR choc/cream were the three BCKs that were converted to slip coaches in 1958, viz 7374/5/6, and the SK that became a dynamometer car which I think survives. Robert Carroll is far better qualified than I to pronounce on this but he wasn't in the pub with me and Craig!

 

Chris

I don't do pubs

 

I can't add anything to this other than that one of the BCKs appeared in a Blue Pullman stand-by set in the early 1960s.

[The Stationmaster]

My lad came home with my first 'blood & custard' one today (yes, I did suitably reimburse him) and I'm not too taken with the shade of the 'custard' definitely too yellow in my view, far more so than the Precision colour which has always struck me as an accurate rendition of the colour 'as new'.

 

Another interesting fault - if such it can be called - is that the gangway distortion on this one, and the SK which came home in the same bag, is far worse than it was in the SK which arrived here last week. I do wonder if a bit less care is now being taken with packaging as more of them are being put through teh process and orders are being despatched to shops everywhere? (still possible, but not so easy, to get the gangway shields in and hopefully they might help correct things?)

[robertcwp]

I believe Swindon commenced painting stock crimson/cream from 5 May 1949, with the first train to traffic being the Cornish Riviera on 26-5-49, though whether this was existing stock repainted or included new stock I do not know.

 

Lot 1720 of 30 Hawksworth corridor thirds built by Gloucester was completed in brown and cream, 30/4/49.

[Bob-65b]

I know of someone on here wanting to do that. Don't need the corridor connectors in some cases then as well.

 

A mystic meg moment Craig! see this post......

 

Problem for me though is a lack of photo's of W325 for proof that it retained full length gutters or had the rather short over-the-door versions. I don't however remember them with quite so prominent rivets as Hornby has them represented though a fairly easy fix no doubt.

[craigwelsh]

For those interested on the two "royal" Hawksworth BCK's in BR chocolate and cream, there is colour shot of them,taken at Newport in 1965, on this website.

 

http://www.robertdarlaston.co.uk/Railways5.htm

 

A great website! Scroll down past half way for the Hawksworths.

 

The nearer one is W7377W and I think the other is W7372W. 7377 is now at Buckfastleigh and 7372 at Didcot.

Wow that is a nice shot! Things to note are the corridor connectors and curtains, both nothing like the Hornby!

 

The connector end plate with the window in is intriguing, when would these be fitted to and vehicles as i've not seen any pictures of them?

 

Talking of that site, one of the slip coaches is in two shots at the bottom of http://www.robertdarlaston.co.uk/Railways50yr.htm apologies if already mentioned!

 

A mystic meg moment Craig! see this post......

 

I don't however remember them with quite so prominent rivets as Hornby has them represented though a fairly easy fix no doubt.

Oops, i'd missed that, someone else is doing one as wlel though. The roof rivets are certainly a bit much and i'll see how they look after a matt repaint tomorrow.

 

Thanks Dave, tiny steps sounds right for the Hawksworth full brake,although the springs should be shorter than on the 'passenger' bogie too.

 

EDIT: I've just saved the earlier shot of a maroon full brake, lightened it and zoomed in on the bogie. It is correct. RTR has certainly come a long way when Hornby gets this kind of detail spot on.

Yes the full brake has square springs with the brake 3rd having upside down cone shaped ones. I've noticed the dynamo is held on by a thread on my fb so that'll need a wire frame to replace the thin plastic that was broken in the box..

[7013]

Not wishing to stray off subject but the Robert Darlaston photos are sublime, Freight train departing Whitchurch Shropshire is one of the most stunning railway photos I have ever seen, this gentleman obviously knows his photography, exposures, composition, everything spot on.

[chrisf]

I can't find the photo of the end plate with a window but there is one in use at Didcot. Its purpose is to allow the giuard to see out of the front of the trsin when it is being propelled. AFAIK it is an invention of preservation.

 

Chris

[iak]

Well I'm off to a well known box-shifter later for some of these...

The Full brake appears to be the "full monty"

Now the bar has been raised again, one wonders were Hornby go next?

Answers on a postcard to..............................

[craigwelsh]

Now the bar has been raised again, one wonders were Hornby go next?

These haven't 'raised the bar' in any way being the same quality as the Maunsel coaches though unfortunately at Stanier prices! Not really sure how Hornby are calculating its coach pricing but at least the shape of these seems basically accurate and if you want Hawksworth without having to do that roof shape these are the ones you have to buy.

 

Note if you take the corridor connector off there is no detail on the end of the coach for the doorway. Certainly will make it easier for someone doing a plated blue one as the details of the plating can be put straight on the end just to cover the holes.

 

I've now got the two I actually need but may get some more if Hornby follow recent form and offload some cheap on Amazon!

[iak]

One could always buy a kit plus bogies, wheels, corridor connections, roof, solder, flux, transfers and paint. Then build ones own and there we are....Not much change out of around £65.00. Ah yes, and it still needs painting and lining.

 

Buy the coaches and assist Hornby re-invest in future coaches. Speaking as a coach producer, I consider Hornby has raised the bar, but there we are.

 

I'm with the professional coachie person B)

[talyllyn1]

I'm with the professional coachie person B)

So am I. I was the one who bought an old Mopok kit on ebay at a ridiculously expensive price just before Hornby announced the Hawksworths!

I thought I was being clever as the kit had pre-coloured sides (just like the old PC kits) - what a mistake! The plastic "carrier" for the sides had warped badly with age, and I ended up virually scratch-building a body to attach the sides to. With wheels,close coupling mechanisms,couplings,etched handles,brass wire, paint and transfers etc., I reckon it's cost me near to £100.00, and I can't calculate how many hours it took to make the thing look remotely like a Hawksworth SK. I nearly gave up, but begrudged wasting the money! It does look the part now, but I won't be able to run it next to a Hornby Hawksworth!

How much is a Hornby (Hawks)worth? Every penny!

My beef with Hornby is the pricing of the Staniers - but that's another subject.

[The Stationmaster]

I'm with the professional coachie person B)

 

 

Me too

[Jamie]

My beef with Hornby is the pricing of the Staniers - but that's another subject.

 

Wind the clock back to the mid 90s, and from what I recall, a typical coach was about a third the price of a typical steam loco. That's my impression anyway, I'd have to dig out some old magazine adverts to verify the £18 and £60 figures I have in mind. Back to today, and with a steam loco often in the £85-100 mark, £30 for a coach actually seems quite proportionate.

 

Larry's point about the DIY alternative is of course completely valid.

 

I think many will agree the Stanier do not cut it for some reason. If only the Staniers and the Gresleys had followed the Maunsells and Hawsworths!

Can't agree more. In general appearance I'm happy with them (colour excepted), but I'd have liked to have seen a more useful range of Staniers - a BG, BSK and SK aren't enough, and the First is of no use to me whatsoever. However, it means more gold for the cottage industries, more brass for my cupboard. Can't be that bad.

 

Hope to pick up a Hawksworth BG at the weekend, to be lost under a mountain of parcels stock filth...

[talyllyn1]

Wind the clock back to the mid 90s, and from what I recall, a typical coach was about a third the price of a typical steam loco. That's my impression anyway, I'd have to dig out some old magazine adverts to verify the £18 and £60 figures I have in mind. Back to today, and with a steam loco often in the £85-100 mark, £30 for a coach actually seems quite proportionate.

 

As a generalisation, you are quite correct. However, Hornby launched the Staniers at price well above £30.00, only to subsequently produce the infinitely better Maunsells at below £30.00, with a better choice of types. Looking at the Hornby website today, the Staniers and fault-ridden Gresleys are priced at £38.25, whereas the Maunsells are £27.85-£29.75 and the Hawksworths £32.99.

 

I'm not doubting the value-for-money of all these models (particularly as they can be bought for less from the "box shifters"). I just can't understand why Hornby persist in pricing the limited range of Staniers higher than the better detailed Maunsells and Hawksworths, both of which are available in greater variety.