Ingleford Wharf: 1870s canalside inglenook on the "M&WJR" in 00, and Victoria Quay: a 1900s WIP in 0

[Schooner]

On 09/05/2023 at 13:02, Graham T said:

very much like the ripples!

Yeah, they're quite effective* and it would actually be quite an easy, controllable**, technique too. If only I'd thought of it first, built the watercraft and set them into the final layer so the ripples flowed around them. Oh well, next time...!

 

*I'm assuming because they are 'real' waves - the product of variable acceleration in the water column. In this case, gravity encourages the top of the fluid new resin to flow, whilst its chemical reaction with the previous layer as it cures acts to slow down the bottom. Interesting!

**Variables which spring to mind are resin viscosity, resin depth, tilt angle, length of time tilted

 

I've mostly been playing trains instead of modelling since posting the above, having broken the ice/made the circuit:

and subsequently giving the track a bit of a clean*

 

*a cotton-bud-scrub with Servisol Super10, followed by a going-over with a graphite stick. On which, see @Giles results here:

 

Re. Totems, I'm currently torn. My personal top two:

Which I think is the most reasonable.

 

Which is the most fun

 

But I still have time for

Which is the most self-explanatory

 

And

which is the only monogram-based version I drew, so am most gratified by the collective response!

 

Can anyone point to any information on them [edit - totems/illiterate marks that is], anywhere? I'm really struggling to come up with convincing info on their origin, purpose and use. Without knowing these I might as well play eenie-meenie to pick one. A perfectly viable approach, but a bit boring!

 

Out of time for now, but more shortly.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Schooner

[chuffinghell]

The water looks fantastic 👍

 

I didn’t realise how deep it was, my canal is only 3mm thick so in comparison it’s more of a puddle really 😂

[Mikkel]

Very nice! The combination of murky water and light ground is very satisfying, and has that period feel to it.

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, Schooner said:

Can anyone point to any information on them [edit - totems/illiterate marks that is], anywhere? I'm really struggling to come up with convincing info on their origin, purpose and use. 

 

I think the illiterate mark theory - that they were an identification aid for staff who couldn't read - has been pretty well exploded by the point that the railway companies required their employees to be able to read. So for my part I go with the logo argument - instant recognition, even to the literate. After all, putting 21" high letters M R on the side of a wagon doesn't immediately convey Midland Railway, but is more of a logo itself.

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I think the illiterate mark theory - that they were an identification aid for staff who couldn't read - has been pretty well exploded by the point that the railway companies required their employees to be able to read. So for my part I go with the logo argument - instant recognition, even to the literate. After all, putting 21" high letters M R on the side of a wagon doesn't immediately convey Midland Railway, but is more of a logo itself.

 

That's something that I have thought about too, especially as the railway companies went to the trouble of providing education for their employees.

Perhaps it's an early (and cheap to apply!) form of corporate logo like British Leyland's logo? Something that was apparently dubbed by employees The Plughole Of Doom or the Soggy Swastika back in the days of strkes and paint that fell off in the showrooms. 

[Schooner]

6 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

I didn’t realise how deep it was

Pretty much scale depth as, like a fool, I thought I might want full-hull boat models sat in holes in the resin.

 

Spoiler Alert: I don't 😆

 

TBH I'm not that happy with the water overall; it's fine but doesn't wow me. There are several reasons, some down to learning, some down to expectations, some down to execution. Worth my remembering that there are still several steps to go with it before it's finished, after which it will certainly improve further once it's all finally cleaned up and polished, and the wood has been oiled/varnished. 

 

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

instant recognition

100%...but by whom for what purpose?

 

The large M R I get as corporate branding - making it obvious to all and sundry who's been snaffling up PO wagons - but the majority totems (my favoured term, as 'logo' seems too loaded with modern connotations and 'illiterate mark' is misleading, but is there a better one?) appear to have been small, a plank's width, and in a position likely to be hidden by sheets (which I suppose were clearly identified, so perhaps this point is pointless).

 

My assumption is the M&W exchange yards would have benefitted from a quick method to differentiate company stock, particularly to break the motley trains which have traversed the system into cuts for the respective companies to pick up for onward travel.  If the shunter/point man could quickly see from a distance where cuts belonging to a particular company began and ended, I can see this aiding speed and safety of the operation. A totem would be just the thing - clear, distinctive, easily maintained and gentle on the paint budget/painter's time. The tallyman has to wander around looking at solebar information anyway, so it's of no odds to him what's painted on the side of a wagon, but to a marshaller I can see it being of some practical value.

 

Has the assumption got anything to do with reality? Do we need any reason beyond that rather human trait of wanting to label everything within reach 'MINE!'?

 

Speaking of marshalling, The Calamity-Anno, or Ingleford Chain Dance:

 

Step 1

 

Step 2

 

Step 3

 

Step 4

 

Step 5

 

Step 6

 

Step 7

 

"Hang on! Shouldn't a traditional South Gloucestershire Calamity-Anno* have twelve steps?" I hear you all cry.

 

Well yes, yes it should but tell that to the RMWeb upload limit! Hopefully the above is explanation enough, but I'll tuck a couple extra pics into the next post. Queries and criticisms welcome as ever, it's very much a first go!

 

In other news there were some fun 7mm updates today, but I'll save them for a more comprehensive overview.

 

*Sorrynotsorry

[Compound2632]

15 hours ago, Schooner said:

 

I do worry how much chain shunting that wooden post will stand before it's completely eaten away.

[Schooner]

Indeed!

It's taking a fair load. Those whitemetal wagons loaded with 'coal' and/or whitemetal crates etc each weighs more than the Peckett, suitable for stress-testing only.

 

Chain shunting is unlikely to be a regular occurrence though - the plan was to use it to get bolster wagons down to the timber dump, and I don't have any bolsters.  Higher risk is using the method to run round full trains, a two stage process:

...then resetting the chain as seen before - onto the hook and over the buffer at the furthest end of the furthest wagon. This is important as the resulting angle allows the chain to slip over the top of the post as the wagon goes past, preventing pulling the wagon over or the post out!

 

Why might I want to run round trains? The same reason I want a tiny tender engine. One of the frustrations of the layout is that it's 'just' a shunting puzzle - a little loco pointlessly bumping wagons backwards and forwards. Nothing wrong with that, but it misses the easy narrative of BLT (eg) operations. Hence the creation of the M&WJR, and the setting of this little fictional wharf as part of a fictional network. To make this more than a slightly whiffy post-justification, it'd be nice to really see the M&W in evidence at the wharf; to invite questions and demonstrate the answers.

 

To be able to have a 'proper' train* arrive to deposit and collect the day's wagons - all in distinctive livery -  would, I hope, go some way to achieving this. In all likelihood the M&W won't have further manifestation, so it'd be nice to do the best we can with what we have :)

 

* Tender loco, 5-6 wagons and a break van. All ancient and minuscule, as per.

 

It looked at me funny.

[magmouse]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

post-justification

 

I see what you did there.

 

Regarding the post - I would have thought in practice the friction of a chain going around a fixed (non-rotating) wooden post would be very high. A wire rope would run round the post more easily, but also cut through it more quickly. Even the impecunious M&W might have invested in a rotating metal capstan?

 

Nick.

[Schooner]

Spitballing, of course, but I'd expect small-diameter chain to run okay. Wagons roll fairly easily, locos are powerful! It's fairly pliable stuff as long as it's fine enough for the job - for a period chain was used for the strongest running as well as standing rigging, after all.

Any excuse :)

 

I also assume that chain scales fairly well (unlike rope of wire or fibre), so if it works on the model that's good enough for me!

 

3 hours ago, magmouse said:

Even the impecunious M&W might have invested in a rotating metal capstan?

Yes, I think you're right...if there was a need for one.

 

In reality, with so many horses knocking about the place I think chain shunting would be most unlikely as a common move...but...with an old post sticking out of the wharf in about the right spot and a length of chain liberated from round the back of the old mill, who's to say it never happened? 

 

...and how else would a little tender engine run round?!

 

7mm - Victoria Quay

Briefly, cos it's late and I'm keen for advice. @Tricky sent over this rather thrilling photo early today:

With which I am well pleased, and hope he is too! However, it's triggered a moment of angst. Question posed over here

and all help with finding an answer is much appreciated. Thank you :)

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Schooner

[Schooner]

First attempt to put together a little vid of the Neilson's first outing did not survive contact with Microsoft's bog standard Video Editor. 

 

As a result,

 

It featured the Neilson's first outing for a long while, and cassette's first use in anger...

...which worked...mostly. It didn't fall, which is the key thing.

 

Busy tomo*, I'll have a hunt for functional editing software on Sunday if poss. Tips gratefully recieved, as ever.

 

*Do come along if you're in the area and fancy crossing streams, as it were. It's a rare chance to see a truly world-class conductor up close, the band's great and the program is an absolute delight. Quite genuinely looking forward to this gig more than any for years :)

 

Also, playing trains is great and the Neilson is a delight :) Thank you @Carnforth, nice job!

Edited May 13, 2023 by Schooner

[Annie]

40 minutes ago, Schooner said:

First attempt to put together a little vid of the Neilson's first outing did not survive contact with Microsoft's bog standard Video Editor. 

 

As a result,

 

It featured the Neilson's first outing for a long while, and cassette's first use in anger...

...which worked...mostly. It didn't fall, which is the key thing.

 

Busy tomo*, I'll have a hunt for functional editing software on Sunday if poss. Tips gratefully received, as ever.

 

*Do come along if you're in the area and fancy crossing streams, as it were. It's a rare chance to see a truly world-class conductor up close, the band's great and the program is an absolute delight. Quite genuinely looking forward to this gig more than any for years :)

 

Playing trains is great :)

I use the old MS Movie Maker software that was made for Windows 7 and it works Ok for me.  It's still available, but you might have to hunt about on the interwebs to find it.  Microsoft's current replacement for it is rubbish.

 

Taking notes on your cassette by the way.

[Schooner]

Thank you, will investigate.

 

14 minutes ago, Annie said:

Taking notes on your cassette by the way.

 

All credit due here:

https://www.intentio.shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=25&product_id=304

Happy customer, have 2 x 'supers' for stress-testing and medium-term stock storage, will get a couple shorter one for more regular use.

[NHY 581]

6 hours ago, Schooner said:

 

 

*Do come along if you're in the area and fancy crossing streams, as it were. It's a rare chance to see a truly world-class conductor up close, the band's great and the program is an absolute delight. Quite genuinely looking forward to this gig more than any for years Also, playing trains is great and the Neilson is a delight :) Thank you @Carnforth

 

Clearly up too early at Chateau Sheep. Saw that and thought this.......

 

 

More coffee........

 

Rob

[Schooner]

The resemblance is uncanny!

[Schooner]

Now, my maths isn't great, but 

 

+

+

=

 

?

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Schooner
...cos I've just found the first element in the equation for the right number of elements in the equation...

[lezz01]

It's quite close but the rear splashers are the wrong shape and I think the well tank has bigger wheels. Do you have a proper drawing of the tender loco? Ask Dave Basford if he will do it as an etched kit! He's always looking for the next project.

Regards Lez. 

[Schooner]

On 14/05/2023 at 20:50, lezz01 said:

He's always looking for the next project.

Does he know that, @k22009?!

 

I don't have a proper drawing, no but I suspect useful info exists. The type was fairly well documented (see below), and I doubt Trevor Nunn pulled this beauty out of thin air

nor the Norwich Central team (I don't know the builder, apologies)

 

As I'm sure is old news to readers, both 2-4-0 and 0-6-0 models above represent Sharp Stewart conversions of their own 0-6-0Ts built for the Cornwall Minerals Railway

 

When the GWR took over the line it kept some, in 'standardised' format as 0-6-0STs 

(later replaced by the uncannily similar 1361 0-6-0STs) and flogged the others.

 

Some stayed largely as built

and some...didn't...

and

(all embedded thumbnails from Transports of Delight - do follow the link for the full-resolution versions)

 

Lovely little beasties, and I wouldn't turn down either! They risk being too distinctive for my purposes, but it's one I'd be willing to take. Practically though, even if such a kit existed I've not got the skills yet to do it justice ('tho I've planned my first steps in that direction so never say never), nor the funds to outsource the build and painting.

 

The scheme outlined above isn't to copy the Sharp Stewarts, but use them as inspiration to freelance a quirky but characterful outside cylinder 2-4-0 around a proven RTR chassis. Bearing in mind that I've shied away from using my LSWR 330 because it's too big for the layout (!) it's very much a vanity project but so's the whole M&WJR. The only reason it's going ahead is because I stumbled across a single factory-fresh Beattie Well Tank for a reasonable 2-digit sum, well under the normal RRP, so pulled the trigger. Now I'm poorer and with even greater demands on my modelling time, but I think that's what progress feels like?! Next I need to look into how to make the conversion happen. The dream would be to spark the imagination of one of RMWeb's lurking 3D gurus, and entice them to create a bespoke 3D-printed body kit for the EFE/Bachmann chassis...

 

I'm assuming I'm the only one who would be interested in such a loco. Are there more of us? A collective, however small, would stand a better chance of bringing one into existence.

 

The overall idea is that with an 1840s 0-4-2 Large Samson and/or 0-4-0 Coppernob (Plan A from a @Rudititanic print as linked, but it's very early days) and an 1870s mixed traffic 2-4-0 (as bodged above) I can show a bit of the M&W's development and wider network, even if I'm never able to model any more of it than a snapshot of Ingleford.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Schooner
Sp. etc

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, Schooner said:

 

[CTRL] M

[Schooner]

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

[CTRL] M

 

...supportive yes, but also agreement, applause and laughter!

[magmouse]

8 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

[CTRL] M

I think that’s [SHIFT][CTRL] M for more than one MR wagon in the background…

[MrWolf]

35 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Does he know that, @k22009?!

 

I don't have a proper drawing, no but I suspect useful info exists. The type was fairly well documented (see below), and I doubt Trevor Nunn pulled this beauty out of thin air

nor the Norwich Central team (I don't know the builder, apologies)

 

As I'm sure is old news to readers, both 2-4-0 and 0-6-0 models above represent Sharp Stewart conversions of their own 0-6-0Ts built for the Cornwall Minerals Railway

 

When the GWR took over the line it kept some, in 'standardised' format as 0-6-0STs (replaced by the uncannily similar 1361 0-6-0STs)

 

and flogged the others. Some stayed largely as built

and some...didn't...

and

(all embedded thumbnails from Transports of Delight - do follow the link for the full-resolution versions)

 

Lovely little beasties, and I wouldn't turn down either! They risk being too distinctive for my purposes, but it's one I'd be willing to take. Practically though, even if such a kit existed I've not got the skills yet to do it justice ('tho I've planned my first steps in that direction so never say never), nor the funds to outsource the build and painting.

 

The scheme outlined above isn't to copy the Sharp Stewarts, but use them as inspiration to freelance a quirky but characterful outside cylinder 2-4-0 around a proven RTR chassis. Bearing in mind that I've shied away from using my LSWR 330 because it's too big for the layout (!) it's very much a vanity project but so's the whole M&WJR. The only reason it's going ahead is because I stumbled across a single factory-fresh Beattie Well Tank for a reasonable 2-digit sum, well under the normal RRP, so pulled the trigger. Now I'm poorer and with even greater demands on my modelling time, but I think that's what progress feels like?! Next I need to look into how to make the conversion happen. The dream would be to spark the imagination of one of RMWeb's lurking 3D gurus, and entice them to create a bespoke 3D-printed body kit for the EFE/Bachmann chassis...

 

I'm assuming I'm the only one who would be interested in such a loco. Are there more of us? A collective, however small, would stand a better chance of bringing one into existence.

 

The overall idea is that with an 1840s 0-4-2 Large Samson and/or 0-4-0 Coppernob (Plan A from a @Rudititanic print as linked, but it's very early days) and an 1870s mixed traffic 2-4-0 (as bodged above) I can show a bit of the M&W's development and wider network, even if I'm never able to model any more of it than a snapshot of Ingleford.

 

That is a wonderful contraption. 

 

You're going to have to build it now....

[Schooner]

42 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

You're going to have to build it now....

Running out of excuses, for sure!

 

Hit my patience threshold on this evening's attempt at editing. No more till I've got some better footage, but it's all good learning.

 

Note to self: really do watch the whole thing through before uploading in case, just in case, transitions in the audio and video have been mixed up causing jump-cuts and quiet moments. The sound is from a BBC archive which includes plenty of steam shunting of a goods yard, from wagons being opened and closed to 5 minute ambient noise. I think it should be possible to use these to good effect once I learn how!

[NHY 581]

Morning Louis, 

 

Splendid stuff. In particular, I applaud not only your tenacity but also your dexterity with the pesky chain thing. 

 

With my increasingly wonky hoofs that would prove challenging.........

 

 

Rob

[Nick C]

10 hours ago, Schooner said:

The scheme outlined above isn't to copy the Sharp Stewarts, but use them as inspiration to freelance a quirky but characterful outside cylinder 2-4-0 around a proven RTR chassis. Bearing in mind that I've shied away from using my LSWR 330 because it's too big for the layout (!) it's very much a vanity project but so's the whole M&WJR. The only reason it's going ahead is because I stumbled across a single factory-fresh Beattie Well Tank for a reasonable 2-digit sum, well under the normal RRP, so pulled the trigger. N

Why not go for a Beyer-Peacock inspiration rather than a Sharpie? less modification needed then! 

 

It doesn't even need to be freelance - there were 31 Beattie well tanks converted to 2-4-0 tender engines in the 1880s, using tenders from older withdrawn engines - some even had Adams boilers which would make the conversion a bit easier (just change chimney and safety valves), and were withdrawn in the early 1890s so could easily have been sold on secondhand...