Ingleford Wharf: 1870s canalside inglenook on the "M&WJR" in 00, and Victoria Quay: a 1900s WIP in 0

[MrWolf]

2 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Balls. 

 

 

 

Bollards.

[Schooner]

3 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Balls. 

to you too, mate!

[NHY 581]

2 minutes ago, Schooner said:

to you too, mate!

 

Exactly. 

 

 

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Balls. 

 

Too aristocratic? 

 

(Though less so than pineapples.)

[franciswilliamwebb]

3 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Balls. 

 

Is that your finial word? 😉

[simonmcp]

Our local petrol station used to be called Balls, so you can imagine the delight, when we were young lads, of being able to answer "Balls" when asked by a motorist where they could buy petrol.🙄🤔

[Schooner]

Brief run through my afternoon:

• Look through the 3-volume The Stroudwater and Thames and Severn Canals From Old Photographs
• Note the photos which show wharf gates
• Use that date/location info to track down useful-resolution images online
• Find this archive
• Put the kettle on and settle down

If the sort of details that go into Ingleford - turn of the century light industry I s'pose is the simplest catch-all - then you might like to do the same. Although most are a bit late for me and a bit early for others, this may take a moment or two.

 

I'll let you have your rations for the journey now, but remember that it'll have to see you through for a while so don't look at it all at once:

1897*, neighbourhood of Chalford? Plenty to chat about here, but we've got a lot of ground to cover so pop it in your pocket and let's get going.

*As @Compound2632 quite rightly points out below, it absolutely isn't! 

 

First up, a collection of Daneway Wharf right at the Eastern end of the Golden Valley before Sapperton Tunnel. Good for looking at piles of stuff :)

 

I'm always on the look out for old boys having their lunch, and this one's a treat

 

That includes the horses, who will also be having their midday break at Ingleford Wharf

 

Good time-and-place-relevant photos of livestock are always welcome. Some of these are just wonderful

and of course

What a beauty! On which

 

In terms of canalage, and to help illustrate why the MWJR idea isn't quite as mad as it sounds, the head of the canal was losing about 1.1 million gallons of water a day and spent years at a time looking like this

 

Even after being rebuilt, puddled and even concrete-lined in sections - works done in 1905-7 IIRC - it was often below a workable depth

 

Sapperton tunnel itself also need frequent remedial work, captured in this excellent shot

and although it's tight, at a nominal 15'4" high and 14'4" wide and fairly well-ventilated I reckon a Victorian railwayman would've had a crack at the 3,817 yards of what was for many years the longest tunnel in the country (it's still the 3rd longest), if it were maintained as per the original schematics from 1783

Would they?

 

As we know, I'm also keen on finding appropriate horse wagons (when will a better selection become available?! CADers and 3D printers must want correct vehicles too, right?!) and the roadways they use. So I like this very much

and this too

 

One can never have enough references for wicker containers and sacks

 

trouser string

(and ladders and lashings), or plants along the garden path

Botantists please help me out!

 

Which just leaves us with some ricks and stooks

for those modelling late summer rather than late spring, and we'll wrap with a couple of fantastic seasonal portraits, just 'cos

 

Woop!

 

PS. Whilst putting this together the last clamps were delivered. Quite bite to eat then off to build a dam I reckon...

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Schooner
Gah!

[figworthy]

43 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Brief run through my afternoon:

• Look through the 3-volume The Stroudwater and Thames and Severn Canals From Old Photographs
• Note the photos which show wharf gates
• Use that date/location info to track down useful-resolution images online
• Find this archive
• Put the kettle on and settle down

If the sort of details that go into Ingleford - turn of the century light industry I s'pose is the simplest catch-all - then you might like to do the same. Although most are a bit late for me and a bit early for others, this may take a moment or two.

 

I'll let you have your rations for the journey now, but remember that it'll have to see you through for a while so don't look at it all at once:

1897, neighbourhood of Chalford. Plenty to chat about here, but we've got a lot of ground to cover so pop it in your pocket and let's get going.

 

First up, a collection of Daneway Wharf right at the Eastern end of the Golden Valley before Sapperton Tunnel. Good for looking at piles of stuff :)

 

I'm always on the look out for old boys having their lunch, and this one's a treat

 

That includes the horses, who will also be having their midday break at Ingleford Wharf

 

Good time-and-place-relevant photos of livestock are always welcome. Some of these are just wonderful

and of course

What a beauty! On which

 

In terms of canalage, and to help illustrate why the MWJR idea isn't quite as mad as it sounds, the head of the canal was losing about 1.1 million gallons of water a day and spent years at a time looking like this

 

Even after being rebuilt, puddled and even concrete-lined in sections - works done in 1905-7 IIRC - it was often below a workable depth

 

Sapperton tunnel itself also need frequent remedial work, captured in this excellent shot

and although it's tight, at a nominal 15'4" high and 14'4" wide and fairly well-ventilated I reckon a Victorian railwayman would've had a crack at the 3,817 yards of what was for many years the longest tunnel in the country (it's still the 3rd longest), if it were maintained as per the original schematics from 1783

Would they?

 

As we know, I'm also keen on finding appropriate horse wagons (when will a better selection become available?! CADers and 3D printers must want correct vehicles too, right?!) and the roadways they use. So I like this very much

and this too

 

One can never have enough references for wicker containers and sacks

 

trouser string

(and ladders and lashings), or plants along the garden path

Botantists please help me out!

 

Which just leaves us with some ricks and stooks

for those modelling late summer rather than late spring, and we'll wrap with a couple of fantastic seasonal portraits, just 'cos

 

Woop!

 

PS. Whilst putting this together the last clamps were delivered. Quite bite to eat then off to build a dam I reckon...

 

 

I wasn't sure how to rate this post (like, applause etc), but what a fantastic collection of pictures.

 

Adrian

[mullie]

A superb set of photos

[Schooner]

Recently learned that the long thread title was causing some format issues, so I've shortened it to fit in the new (quite tight!) limits. Do let me know if it works for you/extra info needed/superfluous info which can be cut. Ta :)

 

Waiting for PVA to kick off properly before going for a resin pour this evening, so a quick update and immediate lessons learned:

 

The dam itself is from polypropylene sheet - to which resin does not adhere, making for easy removal (we'll see...) and a fair finish requiring minimal polishing (ditto).

...with corners and joints (1000mm lengths of plastic to cover 1350mm of canal frontage) reinforced with PET maskingrelease tape.

 

External edges had a fillet of hot glue

to help hold the ends in place and provide a backup seal!

 

Where angle of dangle made this tricky 

I just ran the tip of the gluegun back along the run to ensure a decent seal

Ugly, but so what?!

 

A PVA was then used to prove the seal

 

and it's this last stage I'm waiting for atm...

 

Primary lessons so far:

• Be really sure you want to go this route. The all-up cost and fuss are not insignificant.
• I could've got away with using the release tape to cover a timber board to make the dam, simplifying the process and certainly the clamping shenanigans! 
• On which, if you're going to have resin-fronted board, design with it in mind from the start. I sort of did, but had not considered the practicalities when eg cutting the bottom of the layout to be flush with the underside of the tabletop.

So that's my teaching out of the way; time for my learnings:

The nearest edge of the layout in the above shows how it's grown slightly over the iterations from first tracklaying. What do reckon I should do about it? 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Schooner

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Recently learned that the long thread title was causing some format issues, so I've shortened it to fit in the new (quite tight!) limits. Do let me know if it works for you/extra info needed/superfluous info which can be cut. Ta :)

 

I think you could dispense with the 5'x2'.

 

15 hours ago, Schooner said:

1897

 

Pull the other one, it's got G W on.

 

15 hours ago, Schooner said:

Botantists please help me out!

 

They're women, Louis.

 

Splendid set of photos!

[Schooner]

23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

They're women, Louis.

Good Lord! 

[Northroader]

At the other end of the tunnel...

[Nick C]

On the subject of the empty canal, my local one (Basingstoke) was in such a state by the end that it took the final boat three months to traverse the last five miles...

[Annie]

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

They're women, Louis.

😄😂🤣🙃😉

[Schooner]

3 hours ago, Annie said:

😄😂🤣🙃😉

Both the comment and your response are still making me laugh - thanks both!

 

M&WJR

Trying to get into the habit of prefacing posts with their project to aid my own retrieval of information and others whose interests may not be spread equally between scales or fantasies. Hopefully it will aid future use of the search function.

 

The second cattle wagon built up at long last and a resolution made to finish the coke wagon tomorrow, I've been passing the time in between resin-tinting sessions thinking through what livery the T&S/M&WJR (I look forward to finding a documented date for the name change) will have used.

 

The wagons on Ingleford will not be in their first flush of youth, so some work will be required to establish the effects of time on relevant paints and weathering will blend them to some extent, but I was wondering if something along the lines of

 

Minerals - dark grey (faded black?) black ironwork

Gen. Merch. Opens - light grey, black ironwork

Covered (inc. cattle) - red, black ironwork

 

would convince?

 

Should the cattle wagons have their own livery do with we think? If so, van to light grey? It's reasonable but a bit dull. Blue vehicles would jar; green is off the table. Yellow (more primrose than neon) would be possible, blend alright and is an obvious 'early railway' colour...? I'd be inclined to have yellow livestock vehicles and keep the van (and maybe a couple other 'finished goods' wagons) in red...?

 

All to be numbered in white* (side sheeting lower right?) and carry the horseshoe totem (upper left?). Exceptions can have the marking centrally as required...?

*Unless the yellow thing happens, in which case those in black.

 

No lettering (to save having to redo it in the future!), tares etc.

 

For the totem, would a Latin upsilon work

ʊ

(other fonts look nicer and less upside-down-omega-y, my fave so far being the lower case top right here) or need we go full sign-writer on it?

Erm, subtle that image ain't but a good base to work from.

 

It's of real-world relevance as Railtec might have the former already in one of their libraries; the latter would definitely require a little bit of CAD to turn into appropriate vector art.

 

For numerals I was just planning to use the bog standard script transfers. Any advance on this?

 

Right, splishy splashy time, wish me luck...

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Schooner

[Fishplate]

On 27/04/2023 at 21:25, Schooner said:

intended!

 

 

 

This view makes me think I am walking up that lane. Love it.

[Schooner]

Well that went suspiciously smoothly.

 

Murk test:

On the clear side, but as I've tinted all the resin together better safe than sorry. I'll look at how it's dried tomorrow and decided whether or not to add a little more pigment. The ratio was something like 4:2:1 brown:green:white and the 3.3l of resin took maybe 20-odd drops of pigment all told. Perhaps a little more. Not as fussy as feared.

 

 

Sides brush-coated, base poured. Volume estimates not far off; level miles well off! The resin did a great job of releasing air bubbles, but a quick couple of passes with a heatgun showed willing. The floating crud is semi-intenional (I decided not to hoover the canal bed, just brush clean, to let some bits float about and thicken the depths up a bit!) but I have covered it to test how effective the 'roof' is incase I need to up my game for the final pour.

 

Erm, that's it really, back in 12hrs or so. Night all!

[lezz01]

Err not wrapping it up in cling film to stop the dust then?

Regards Lez.

[Schooner]

Just cardboard over the top of the clamps with this pour.

 

Depending on how it looks in the morning I'll up my game for the second pour or (ideally) only hermetically seal after the final pour tomo night.

 

The colour should be thick enough that this layer won't be visible anyway: the canal wall stops half-way down and the boats will just be waterline models so if dust is visible it'll be the least of my worries!

 

[BWsTrains]

On 26/04/2023 at 08:42, stevel said:

Luke Towan has some excellent video's on modelling water.

 

.....and lots more besides. What's more, Luke being an Aussie, all his supplies are available here :) right down to the Coles Hair Spray.

 

Thx for the link.

 

 

 

[Schooner]

Banana Wharf

 

...but not too dusty. I'm going to up the pigment for the next pour - and include more white to increase opacity - but otherwise so far so as expected.

 

[magmouse]

12 hours ago, Schooner said:

I look forward to finding a documented date for the name change

 

As I know you will appreciate, the great thing about historical research is to develop a suitable methodology that will yield the results you want quickly and with least effort:

 

 

12 hours ago, Schooner said:

or need we go full sign-writer on it?

 

Yes, full signwriter*. Any glyph from an available digital font will almost certainly be too nuanced. One of my 'if I live to be a hundred' projects is to take a course in typography, and design a few signwriters' fonts for PO wagons, and general 19th century signage. (I'm hoping this aside will prompt several RMwebbers to post links to where people have already done that work...)

 

*auto-correct wants to turn that into 'songwriter', so you could maybe try that as an approach.

 

12 hours ago, Schooner said:

For numerals I was just planning to use the bog standard script transfers

 

When you say 'script', do you mean italic, lower-case cursive writing? I am not sure I have every seen that for running numbers, but I'm happy to be corrected.

 

11 hours ago, Schooner said:

Murk test:

 

That colour looks great! I don't think you should go too much darker.

 

I'm very impressed with your progress, Louis - getting the water done is going to be a great step forward, and I look forward to seeing it as part of the layout as a whole.

 

Nick.

 

[WFPettigrew]

13 hours ago, Schooner said:

I look forward to finding a documented date for the name change

Of all the web of lines centred on Cirencester, surely the opening of the line south of Swindon to Salisbury would be the one to trigger a name change?

 

That is the only part of the network that is both not in the general catchments of the Thames or Severn - and the southern extension is the only part of the network that would count as being in Wessex and therefore prompt the new title?

 

I would hazard a guess that already being a profitable concern in its "railway in a canal" original form, the Bill to extend from Swindon to Salisbury would have also contained a clause renaming the railway to reflect the wider geographical reach.   

 

So if you want documentary evidence, try the House of Lords or the archives of the Salisbury Journal?!

 

All the best

 

Neil 

[railtec-models]

14 hours ago, Schooner said:

For the totem, would a Latin upsilon work

ʊ

(other fonts look nicer and less upside-down-omega-y, my fave so far being the lower case top right here) or need we go full sign-writer on it?

Erm, subtle that image ain't but a good base to work from.

 

It's of real-world relevance as Railtec might have the former already in one of their libraries; the latter would definitely require a little bit of CAD to turn into appropriate vector art.

 

 

Thought I'd just chime in whilst the tea is brewing - if you needed either of those symbols as vector, then Latin symbols I can do no problem (reading the likes of Virgil and Cicero at Latin A level didn't go to waste even if it was a perfect cure for insomnia), and the upsilon / horse shoe symbol is of high enough res here that I can convert it to vector in less time that it takes me to write this sentence. Just to put that out there lest it potentially prevent a project unfolding as you would like, at least where the dark arts of transfer making are concerned.

Right, off to fish for that soggy tea bag.