Ingleford Wharf: 1870s canalside inglenook on the "M&WJR" in 00, and Victoria Quay: a 1900s WIP in 0

[NHY 581]

[magmouse]

Don't you mean?

 

 

Nick.

[Schooner]

As a direct result of the above, an update to the layout design thread:

Those who have been kind enough to follow and share their advice here may find it of interest - there will be many similarities with Ingleford - but mostly I'm greedy for input, so let me know what you think :)

 

Cheers,

 

Schooner

[Schooner]

I don't want to alarm anyone, but I've broken with tradition and done a little bit of modelling.

 

To start with, I assembled a rake of all my Midland Railway stock to get me in the mood.

 

Do not attempt anything without a D.299

 

Then I built a shed

 

for the coal merchant's office and weighbridge (after Frank Gegg of Cirencester Wharf, photos of which we've mentioned before)

 

Now, it's not perfect but as I was passing his stand on Saturday, poor Mr Severn Models was getting accosted by a prospective (/-ing) customer whose sense of entitlement dwarfed their self-awareness. Wanting to do my good deed for the day, and liking Severn Models kits very much (see stables, shed and point levers) I had a quick scan of the shelves for something I could possibly justify. A little hut ticked the box, and I was able - eventually - to break through the monologue and get it bought. As a placeholder I think it will do good service, and it was a pleasure to put together.

 

Designed for glued construction (although soldering is an option) it pays to give the contact areas a quick scrub.

 

A good example of how these kits are designed:

Simple. Effective. Ideal. It's a bit bent because I got a bit of glue on my thumb so pulled the window out; then pushed it in too hard; then pulled it completely out whereupon the glue decided to knock off for the day and it fell onto the floor; I moving my chair back to bend down and pick it up I actually rolled over it (and failed to find it for longer than I care to admit) etc etc etc. Anyway, not the kit's fault in in it went!

 

Am alone in having a mixed relationship with these? I love them when they work smoothly, but I often find that using them causes things to get a bit rough. Operator error?

 

All pretty clear, even for me and even in the middle of the night, which is handy... :)

 

Again, clever design makes for a simple build and effective result.

 

Gables. Not much to say about those! Fibreglass brush marks don't do any harm when trying to suggest wood grain, although it's barely noticeable even under the lightest waft of primer.

 

[photo limit reached, next post coming in hot]

[Schooner]

...and there it was, done:

It's designed to have a brick fireplace and chimney at the back, but that's far too much for my local coalie. He can have a stove and be grateful ('cos it doesn't look like Gegg did).

 

One of the pleasant things about this build was it demonstrated what I've learned since making the stable building, my first ever brass kit. Still a long way to go, but progress is progress and is very welcome.

 

So, that done, we're in to decision-making territory. Your thoughts please, on Option 1:

Coal stacks and carts in the front, piles of road stone and stacks of slate beyond the track, and nothing else.

 

Option 2:

(imagine a little weighbridge in front, and think of traffic flows between gate, track crossings, barge and stacking ground)

 

Option 3:

(As before. As a side-note, the yawning chasm around the tiebars will probably be hidden under short sections of wooden infill. I seem to have worn this round tuit flat, new one order...)

 

 

Oh, and I see something was missing from the previous post:

Choo choo!

 

Ciao ciao

[lezz01]

Brass Masters do that Deeley in 4mm just in case you were not aware mate.

Regards Lez. 

[Schooner]

Thanks Lez I was, but I'm always grateful of reminders for these things - I do lose track!

 

I think it was @Nearholmer (?) who pointed it out a while back when I was looking at a more Gloucestery layout with plans cover three periods: Manning Wardle F/H (I forget, apologies) for early, Johnson 0-4-0ST for middle, and the Deeley tank for late. Been lurking at the back of my mind ever since, apparently, waiting to ambush me when my guard was down...!

[MrWolf]

A bit of emery cloth would put visible grain in that brass, if indeed you can be ar....

 

I've seen a a picture of that hut painted up, never realised it was brass. It's really rather nice. 

If you're not building the chimney stack, you're going to have to fit a stovepipe though, as it's got that de-luxe built in coal bunker!

[Schooner]

Need to get a stove first, as it'll be visible through the door and it'd be a bit awkward if it doesn't line up! Canditate for one of those tasteful flickering LEDS perhaps...

[NHY 581]

5 hours ago, Schooner said:

...and there it was, done:

It's designed to have a brick fireplace and chimney at the back, but that's far too much for my local coalie. He can have a stove and be grateful ('cos it doesn't look like Gegg did).

 

One of the pleasant things about this build was it demonstrated what I've learned since making the stable building, my first ever brass kit. Still a long way to go, but progress is progress and is very welcome.

 

So, that done, we're in to decision-making territory. Your thoughts please, on Option 1:

Coal stacks and carts in the front, piles of road stone and stacks of slate beyond the track, and nothing else.

 

Option 2:

(imagine a little weighbridge in front, and think of traffic flows between gate, track crossings, barge and stacking ground)

 

Option 3:

(As before. As a side-note, the yawning chasm around the tiebars will probably be hidden under short sections of wooden infill. I seem to have worn this round tuit flat, new one order...)

 

 

Oh, and I see something was missing from the previous post:

Choo choo!

 

Ciao ciao

 

 

Morning Louis, 

 

I would say option 2 for hut location. Keep the foreground open. You don't want to lose the spacious feel of it all. 

 

If anything is to go in front, then low, small stuff only. 

 

Rob. 

[NHY 581]

However.........

 

Where is the coal being unloaded from and where will the coal trucks be stabled whilst this is occuring.......

 

Rob

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, Schooner said:

 

Small engine policy my foot!

 

I was going to give your first post in this sequence a "craftsmanship/clever" but the tale of glue woe prompted "friendly/supportive". Why isn't there an "all of the above" rating?

[Schooner]

15 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

I would say option 2 for hut location. Keep the foreground open. You don't want to lose the spacious feel of it all. 

 

I agree with the ends, but not certain about the means. I've taken another batch of pics to try to demonstrate:

 

The interest and open spaces alternate front and back as we move left to right, a kind of zigzag where there's always something to look at and something to give distance in front or behind it: trow - stable yard - coal scene - old wharf - barge/bridge (barge not even mocked up yet, but imagine something halfway between the trow and the narrowboat*).  I think this is where a lot of the feeling of space comes from - everywhere you look there's a staged scene, but it's set in open ground and using most of the available depth. 

 

*In shape, that is. In location it'll be hard over to the right of the wharfside by the bridge

 

The narrowboat bit will be busy...

...but it's easy to (literally) overlook. My gut feeling is that Option 3 is the one which could feel the most open as having the hut connected with the narrowboat scene encourages us to look past it. Having it in the middle ground fills the gap between front and rear, and so diminishes the contrast between scenes. I don't know if that makes any sense, or is at all visible in the pics 'tho.

 

In more general news, in the last day or so, I've lost a fence

I have no idea how it got to where I found it. Like, absolutely zero.

 

Made a cocktail

(Treemendus Earth Powder, wood ash, chinchilla dust. Yum yum)

 

Drowned in alcohol

Needs stableyard drain fitted before the horses spend much more time there.

 

Knocked down a wall

...but look, found my fence! There's also another wall section AWOL. First person who spots it gets to donate a replacement. Good game, hey :)

 

Did some...whatever this is

 

Went out by myself and looked across the [hole where there will one day be] water

and I thought of all the things I should be doing, and in my head I painted...the lane, again. 

 

That's the limit hit, and you get the idea. Buildings and walls largely bedded in, towpath re-surfaced etc. The leftover jobs before I can start the next stage...

 

...whatever that is. Paint the spur-of-the-moment back wall (which I really like and makes the layout feel notiveably deeper, should've thought of it before), get some powders out to shade the ground to tie it together a bit better, and then more greenery. Then re-fit the cables, power up and shunt a wagon or two by close of play Sunday. Plan? Plan.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Schooner
Helps makes sense if I stay in the same tense within a sentence. Apparently.

[NeilHB]

Some cracking progress on the layout Schooner, it’s looking great.

 

For me I think option 3 for the placement of the coal merchants hut feels like the right one. 

[Schooner]

16 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Where is the coal being unloaded from and where will the coal trucks be stabled whilst this is occurring

Sorry, got a bit carried away replying to your first comment and skipped this one.

 

Unloaded from the longboat into horse-drawn wagons* and onto the wharf, as per the reference pic. I think I can do without coal trucks (more on this soonish), but the idea was for them to be left opposite the boat and be unloaded straight onto the ground; empties to be kept in the head of the quayside road. It's the longest and needs its wagons down at the far end to service the trow, leaving the near end free. Opinions invited :)

 

*I'm quite fond of using the achaic spelling for the archaic vehicle - waggon for horses, wagon for rail - but it's not a widespread convention I admit.

 

16 minutes ago, NeilHB said:

Some cracking progress on the layout Schooner, it’s looking great.

 

Thanks Neil, that means a lot. There's few places as bursting with charm as Elsbridge so if it gets your thumbs up so far then I'm happy!

Edited March 24, 2023 by Schooner

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, Schooner said:

*I'm quite fond of using the achaic spelling for the archaic vehicle - waggon for horses, wagon for rail - but it's not a widespread convention I admit.

 

The Board of Trade and the Railway Clearing House were quite happy using the spelling waggon for the railway vehicles right up to the end of the nineteenth century. 

[magmouse]

59 minutes ago, Schooner said:

The interest and open spaces alternate front and back as we move left to right, a kind of zigzag where there's always something to look at and something to give distance in front or behind it: trow - stable yard - coal scene - old wharf - barge/bridge (barge not even mocked up yet, but imagine something halfway between the trow and the narrowboat*).  I think this is where a lot of the feeling of space comes from - everywhere you look there's a staged scene, but it's set in open ground and using most of the available depth.

Yes to this - having the hut in front of the track. I agree the ‘zig-zag’ effect adds to the feeling of space.

 

Great to see this progress - the already-wonderful atmosphere is getting ratcheted up each time you finish or tweak something.

 

The only thing is…

.

.

.

*ahem*

.

.

.

The O gauge plans? 🤭

 

Nick.

[Schooner]

Indeed, but that doesn't help us link one word to one vehicle to aid clarity nowadays!

 

@magmouse Tell you when you're older...

 

...actually, I can do better than that. The plan is for the O Plan to give me the required kick to get this one done. Amazing what a deadline can do...

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Schooner

[magmouse]

5 minutes ago, Schooner said:

The plan is for the O Plan to give me the required kick to get this one done. Amazing what a deadline can do...

 

Clever - playing psychological tricks on yourself... But what if you don't fall for it? You might not be as stupid as you think.

 

Nick.

[Schooner]

There's overwhelming evidence that the reverse is true...

 

 

 

...so I thought I'd delegate to a Responsible Adult. Simples :)

[MrWolf]

Or in the words of Blue Peter, "Always get a grown up to help you and use round nosed scissors..."

 

The presenters were often heard to claim that they were "using double sided sticky tape for speed..."

 

But it turned out that some of the presenters were actually just using speed.

 

Also cocaine....

[Mikkel]

Another vote for "in front of the track" from me. Something to do with balance and how space between structures can open up a scene.

 

Thanks for the earth mix tip. That combo clearly works very well.

[NHY 581]

Morning Louis, 

 

Now I can see the wider angle of the latest photos, I could be tempted to plonk the hut in front of the track.......but

 

Methinks a better test would be some low angle "sniper" photos looking across the area (s)  where the hut is being considered. 

 

Another factor, perhaps, is  eventual layout display/operation/exhibition height...........I build my layouts to look into, not down on, so....

 

As part of my "established planning approach" ( yeah right) I spend a fair bit of time plonking structures down to look at, around, through, move......rarely over.

 

Therefore, again looking at operating/display/exhibition height, given the huts various locations, will you be able to reach across it, whereever it is, without snagging the sleeves of ones kaftan ? 

 

 

Rob

 

[Schooner]

9 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

Thanks for the earth mix tip. That combo clearly works very well.

For this sort of generic stuff, I think so - it's dark and course enough for verges, takes a sand (for smoother finish and a lighter colour) well enough for wheelways:

That was a quick scuff with a thumbnail down either side to smooth it, and a couple of passes with the wagon for faint but discernable (?) rut marks. It'll benefit from washes and power for better colour definition, and a little greenery to soften it all, but it's a decent demo of the immediate effect of that mix.

 

For better prepared ground/road surfaces I think going with pure chinchilla dust is probably the answer. A good drenching in a light PVA mix, tamping smooth whilst still damp and then adding colour/texture highlights with the Earth Powder (for darker/coarser) or ash (even smoother and lighter) as desired. That would give you the most control. Still experimenting, still learning! Not happy with how the back lane turned out (I don't know why but I got a lot of glue marks this time) so there may be more in a future update!

 

Guess what wasn't on the list of things to do last night ---->

 

 

Guess what got done last night. <------

 

:)

 

Just a shallow pour to see how bad the sag is and cos I'm sick of how ugly the front of the layout is. Getting quite into this impulsive modelling lark...

Edited March 25, 2023 by Schooner
Sp.

[Schooner]

9 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

but

Thanks for that Rob, more useful info and sage advice. I take comfort that the approach which makes sense to me is one which you use to such great effect - it gives me hope that faults can be attributed to operator error, which is the simplest to fix!

 

The photos were an attempt to illustrate what I felt/saw in looking at the layout from operating height (c.three stories up at the top of the sawmill*/halfway up the hill across the canal from the wharf). It's frustrating that my phone cameras are so different to the human eye in field and depth. But yes, very much of the 'draw into a scene' rather than 'look down on a scene' school of planning.

 

It's all a minor concern - there may or may not be a hut, if there is then this one will get replaced with something closer to the inspiration etc etc - but really helpful to hear views and the reasons for them. Thanks for sharing :)

 

*This was an early plan and the reason/excuse for the bridge - timber from the local estate carted to the mill, sawn, and then sent to Gloucester docks for export by canal - and indeed a possible entire layout, after