Ingleford Wharf: 1870s canalside inglenook on the "M&WJR" in 00, and Victoria Quay: a 1900s WIP in 0

[Mikkel]

17 hours ago, Schooner said:

*GWR intensifies (a little bit, but the Siphon is now functional*

 

Exotic axleboxes 🙂 Do they come with the kit?

[Schooner]

Indeed they do. Fillament printed, like the roof which is simillarly suboptimal in some regards, but nice to have included in the very reasonable cost. I'm a big fan of the D3D kits, and I'm sure they'd take aftermarket 'super detailing' well; but I'm too ignorant to comment on their accuracy etc. But I wanted a little old Siphon, and it's plenty good enough for me for now :)

 

 

[Schooner]

No news I'm afraid (the ketch isn't even in frame yet, let alone getting planked up), but a request:

 

Any leads to visual references for standard gauge baulk road would be much appreciated. All images hotlinked here and (ir-)relevant would also be welcome, as ever :)

 

While in no rush it would be lovely to give the little grey cells something to mull over for the month or so until I'm back and able to do this stuff for myself!

 

Thank @magmouse and @Compound2632 for another simple 'micro' layout getting seriously out of hand. Woop woop!

[Annie]

Brixham station, - standard gauge Baulk Road track.

 

 

The tracks to and around the goods shed on the right hand side of the photo are standard gauge Baulk Road track.

 

Edited July 2 by Annie
added a picture

[sir douglas]

is mixed gauge good enough?

 

Bristol Temple Meads

 

Devonport 1892 in the process of removing the BG

 

Twyford, mixed main with SG only siding

 

Taplow

 

[drduncan]

For someone claiming to disavow broad gauge you’re certainly getting into its infrastructure legacy!

 

Cone on, you know it makes sense - GWR broad gauge is the way ahead….

Duncan

[Annie]

1 hour ago, sir douglas said:

Devonport 1892 in the process of removing the BG

Tut tut good sir,  there are folk here who might suffer distress at such a sight as that.

[Northroader]

You might pick up some clues from the “Modbury” thread:

 

 

[stevel]

these might be of use, first one is Cirencester goods

 

 

second is Perranwell goods

[Annie]

3 hours ago, stevel said:

these might be of use, first one is Cirencester goods

 

3 hours ago, stevel said:

second is Perranwell goods

Brilliant photos, - thanks for these.  I could have done with that Perranwell one when I was attempting to build the Falmouth branch.

[Fishplate]

17 hours ago, Annie said:

The tracks to and around the goods shed on the right hand side of the photo are standard gauge Baulk Road track.

 

 

Ah, what permanent way design happiness will have ensued in the design office when the operating department requested the alignment that runs from the bottom right hand corner to top left of that photo.

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Fishplate said:

Ah, what permanent way design happiness will have ensued in the design office when the operating department requested the alignment that runs from the bottom right hand corner to top left of that photo.

 

 

I've been thinking for some time, you wouldn't get away with that on a model.

 

The whole layout's a mess - just left of centre there's a six-foot that comes down to about one foot.

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Fishplate said:

Ah, what permanent way design happiness will have ensued in the design office when the operating department requested the alignment that runs from the bottom right hand corner to top left of that photo.

 

Looking at the OS maps, it seems that a complete pig's ear was made of an earlier, rational, layout:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/128597587

https://maps.nls.uk/view/106003463

https://maps.nls.uk/view/106003466

 

 

[magmouse]

50 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

it seems that a complete pig's ear was made of an earlier, rational, layout:

 

True, but very motivating for those of us trying to squeeze a lot into a very constrained site! The outside slip formation in the centre of the picture is just what I need for Basuto Quay...

 

Nick.

[Fishplate]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Looking at the OS maps, it seems that a complete pig's ear was made of an earlier, rational, layout:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/128597587

https://maps.nls.uk/view/106003463

https://maps.nls.uk/view/106003466

 

thank you for those links @Compound2632.

 

Looking at the difference between the 1890 map and the one from 1905, the MPD has expanded quite considerably within a land locked site. The track I referenced in my earlier post maintains direct access to the (larger?) turntable from the main lines. Presumably an operational necessity for an increased service without lots of back and forth on the revised 1905 layout, which would necessitate keeping some of the new MPD tracks free rather than used for stabling.

 

From what I can see/ assume, it is the difference between one direct move on and off the turntable from a main line versus three moves involving reverses, running line occupation and hand point operation. And signalling to suit.

 

Fascinating stuff.

[sir douglas]

18 hours ago, drduncan said:

For someone claiming to disavow broad gauge you’re certainly getting into its infrastructure legacy!

Ive got an interest in all sorts of unusual track so GW mixed gauge has fascinated me for years, especially where it gets really complicated at stations

[37Oban]

On 02/07/2024 at 13:11, Annie said:

 

 

Ooh, lovely track work!  Now if I could find justification to build a version of this!

 

Roja

[drduncan]

8 hours ago, 37Oban said:

Ooh, lovely track work!  Now if I could find justification to build a version of this!

 

Roja

If only I had the space! Blow the justification!

D

 

[37Oban]

2 hours ago, drduncan said:

If only I had the space! Blow the justification!

D

 

I think that's the main reason for not building this!  Actually, after having another look at it, and some serious thought, a first for me, maybe some sort of layout using just the central section, could be possible!  I shall have to get the drawing pad out and have a doodle!  Just don't hold your breath waiting for results!

 

Roja

[Fishplate]

5 hours ago, 37Oban said:

I think that's the main reason for not building this!  Actually, after having another look at it, and some serious thought, a first for me, maybe some sort of layout using just the central section, could be possible!  I shall have to get the drawing pad out and have a doodle!  Just don't hold your breath waiting for results!

 

Roja

 

I investigated a model of the MPD at my home town. To 4mm scale, even in OO, it would have occupied the space I have managed to build an entire layout in. And there would have been nowhere for the locos to go. . . .

 

As I found out, the sheer size of the real thing isn't really appreciated until you try and fit a model into a domestic space. Enjoy @37Oban. It is this sort of 'spark' that makes modelling and research enjoyable.

[Schooner]

What a great response, thanks all, giving much to ponder on the moxed gauge front.

 

Work's wrapping up, and I'm hopeful for a little modelling time this weekend. With plenty of thinking-time recently, I had resolved that this modelling would be spent to 'finish'* Ingleford, get some decent pics and put it up for sale. 

 

This would free up space for the 7mm 'Victoria Quay' - a better scale for a shunting layout, after all - to be more readily accessible, which would be nice.

 

It also clears the way for, and would help fund, a more spacious 4mm layout (more for running trains rather than shuffling wagons) in the future, perhaps along these lines

Or a scheme based on the M&WJR and so likely including an Ingleford Wharf 2.0 to show off lessons learned on the first attempt. This is so far away as to be barely worth considering...but is reason enough to keep the stud and rolling stock...and, apparently, keep that collection increasing... :

 

I am, I hope understandably, wavering. However, I would still appreciate hearing from those with more experience in the hobby than I (that's all of you lovely lot!) if they think the above outlines a reasonable path forward, and any advice on putting into practice.

 

Thank you :)

 

*Finish the shed on the left. Paint touchups. Modpodge gloss as the final layer on the canal water. Finish foliaging the tree. Refit the moving point levers. Make up a little box for the actual (Cobalt) point levers. Done. I think. After that it's improvements** for which the scope is endless!

**If you've spotted something I've missed do sing out

Edited August 7 by Schooner
Trackplan added

[Schooner]

News!

 

7mm - Victoria Quay

The ketch is pretty much planked up, so I've placed an order with ModelU for a few crewmembers. These are needed for scale as I start to think about deck fittings, bulwark and pinrail height etc. Like Ingleford the setting of Vicky Quay is the midday break (and so the midday shunt for railwaymen) - the crew will be at rest, sitting/leaning on bits of boat. By being able to build the boat around them things should fit nicely. Bit arse about tit, but there we go! They'll also be useful to compare to the 1:48 steam coaster superstructure and fittings, to start to get a feel of whether a 1:43 refit or false perspective will be the way to go with her...

 

I've just pulled the trigger on 5 x LSWR opens (1 x plank, and 2 x 3 plank and round-end 4 plank...oh, and a road van 'cos shh) from @MarcD's always-dangerous Pre-Grouping Railways. These are to form the bulk of the stock, with the van/bar wagon/PO stock being 'wildcard' additions. I think I shall also be wanting a small train of ballast wagons (for spoil/clay/whatever), when funds allow, and @Skinnylinny is kindly drawing up some of his LSWR in 7mm, for printing by @BlueLightning. This should keep me busy for a little while!

 

The impulse-Terrier (from when they were going for a song from Hatton's) will, I've decided, be converted to a 'generic but as-built Beyer-Peacock-282-Illy-Goods-inspired' tender loco

 

not least because there's a rather lovely pic of one, in rebuilt condition (for which there is a kit...), at Fremington:

and because, no matter how inaccurate, it'll be at least representative of a very LSWR, very North Devon, and very small tender loco!

 

I'll be around for a few days next week, and would like to have a look at the Terrier conversion, but will likely be focusing on Ingleford. If that gets too tedious/sad then I'll be looking to 7mm for a quick cheer-up!

 

Question: Turnout control. What do we think? Whilst I love the tactile interaction with the Cobalt S levers on Ingleford, I don't want anything sticking out from the baseboard on Vicky Quay; nor do I think I can afford to lose scenic area to having them inset...but...just in case, it seems like Ambis' 3-lever kit would be just the thing. Are there any nearer-scale options available? I think I would like to go fully mechanical if levers are an option, it'd be nice to avoid the noise of point motors.

 

That said, the layout will be DCC, via a Digitrax Zephyr Express which can deal with (motorised) turnouts all by itself. Should I ditch the fuss of a mechanical system and just use this?

 

I appreciate it's all subjective, but that's why it's useful to ask for other opinions - what would you do?!

 

4mm

As above, really. I love spending time at Ingleford, but my frustrations with it are unlikely to be easily solved, and so I may as well start again. Mk II would likely be almost identical - I've got rather attached to the wharf after all - but would make use of lessons learned, a more coherent approach and British Finescale pointwork (to avoid any PECO gauge-narrowing issues, which have been a pain to sort out). The plan will be to 'finish' it before Winter and pop it up for sale. I'll keep the stock (and outstanding stock orders, cos I'm an idiot :) ), and might knock up a quick 00 circuit somewhere to run trains until I return to 4mm with intent.

 

If I keep saying it out loud maybe it'll actually happen!

 

Cheers and gone

 

Edited August 26 by Schooner

[drduncan]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

News!

 

7mm - Victoria Quay

The ketch is pretty much planked up, so I've placed an order with ModelU for a few crewmembers. These are needed for scale as I start to think about deck fittings, bulwark and pinrail height etc. Like Ingleford the setting of Vicky Quay is the midday break (and so the midday shunt for railwaymen) - the crew will be at rest, sitting/leaning on bits of boat. By being able to build the boat around them things should fit nicely. Bit arse about tit, but there we go! They'll also be useful to compare to the 1:48 steam coaster superstructure and fittings, to start to get a feel of whether a 1:43 refit or false perspective will be the way to go with her...

 

I've just pulled the trigger on 5 x LSWR opens (1 x plank, and 2 x 3 plank and round-end 4 plank...oh, and a road van 'cos shh) from @MarcD's always-dangerous Pre-Grouping Railways. These are to form the bulk of the stock, with the van/bar wagon/PO stock being 'wildcard' additions. I think I shall also be wanting a small train of ballast wagons (for spoil/clay/whatever), when funds allow, and @Skinnylinny is kindly drawing up some of his LSWR in 7mm, for printing by @BlueLightning. This should keep me busy for a little while!

 

The impulse-Terrier (from when they were going for a song from Hatton's) will, I've decided, be converted to a 'generic but as-built Beyer-Peacock-282-Illy-Goods-inspired' tender loco

 

not least because there's a rather lovely pic of one, in rebuilt condition (for which there is a kit...), at Fremington:

and because, no matter how inaccurate, it'll be at least representative of a very LSWR, very North Devon, and very small tender loco!

 

I'll be around for a few days next week, and would like to have a look at the Terrier conversion, but will likely be focusing on Ingleford. If that gets too tedious/sad then I'll be looking to 7mm for a quick cheer-up!

 

Question: Turnout control. What do we think? Whilst I love the tactile interaction with the Cobalt S levers on Ingleford, I don't want anything sticking out from the baseboard on Vicky Quay; nor do I think I can afford to lose scenic area to having them inset...but...just in case, it seems like Ambis' 3-lever kit would be just the thing. Are there any nearer-scale options available? I think I would like to go fully mechanical if levers are an option, it'd be nice to avoid the noise of point motors.

 

That said, the layout will be DCC, via a Digitrax Zephyr Express which can deal with (motorised) turnouts all by itself. Should I ditch the fuss of a mechanical system and just use this?

 

I appreciate it's all subjective, but that's why it's useful to ask for other opinions - what would you do?!

 

4mm

As above, really. I love spending time at Ingleford, but my frustrations with it are unlikely to be easily solved, and so I may as well start again. Mk II would likely be almost identical - I've got rather attached to the wharf after all - but would make use of lessons learned, a more coherent approach and British Finescale pointwork (to avoid any PECO gauge-narrowing issues, which have been a pain to sort out). The plan will be to 'finish' it before Winter and pop it up for sale. I'll keep the stock (and outstanding stock orders, cos I'm an idiot :) ), and might knock up a quick 00 circuit somewhere to run trains until I return to 4mm with intent.

 

If I keep saying it out loud maybe it'll actually happen!

 

Cheers and gone

 

If you’re going to use British finescale for the 4mm rebuild you may as well go EM… 

 

D

[Schooner]

Not a bad thought at all...

 

...the idea (and cost) of regauging the wagons and (particularly) the locos* does not appeal...but the end result does.

 

Think I'll just have to burn that bridge when I get to it, as they say :)

 

*In terms of RTR chassis, 2 x Hornby Pecket W4s and a Rapido Lion, with a Hatton's (now Rails) P Class on order due for a bodykit from @BlueLightning's Oakhill Works. There is also the High Level Neilson piano tank, beautifully built by @Carnforth; and a plan for the EFE Beattie well tank courtesy of @Player of trains. Not insurmountable, but enough to be a consideration. Opinions invited!

[drduncan]

4 hours ago, Schooner said:

Not a bad thought at all...

 

...the idea (and cost) of regauging the wagons and (particularly) the locos* does not appeal...but the end result does.

 

Think I'll just have to burn that bridge when I get to it, as they say :)

 

*In terms of RTR chassis, 2 x Hornby Pecket W4s and a Rapido Lion, with a Hatton's (now Rails) P Class on order due for a bodykit from @BlueLightning's Oakhill Works. There is also the High Level Neilson piano tank, beautifully built by @Carnforth; and a plan for the EFE Beattie well tank courtesy of @Player of trains. Not insurmountable, but enough to be a consideration. Opinions invited!

All other things being equal you should get better running with a set of track and wheels standards that are designed to be coherent, as the late and very lamented Iain Rice demonstrated in his book ‘An approach to Finescale track construction’. 
 

SWB stock doesn’t need compensation in EM - although there is nothing to stop you doing so if desired. This means stock conversion can be as simple as just replacing wheels. 
 

Locos are relatively easy especially if inside cylinders. Have a look at 

And

 

Which reminds me not only do i need to find and reinstate photos but I also need to write part 3….

 

Duncan