Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[Ron Ron Ron]

The e-Up and Citigo-e are almost certainly placeholders until VAG roll out a new MEB platform based replacement (i.e. designed as an EV from the ground up).

That replacement is probably a few years off though, as a Polo sized EV appears to be higher up their list.

 

Still, it (Citigo and e-Up) looks like an affordable option for some in the shorter term.

 

 

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[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

I'm not an EV owner or driver....yet, .....but everything I've read and heard, suggests Ecotricity's motorway network is dire.

Poor reliability and serviceability. 

A very limited number of charging points, often stuck in a  damp corner or similar.

As early providers, their charging points are overwhelmingly older, lower charging capacity types. 

Unfortunately, they have an exclusive contract for most of the motorway network's service areas.

Unless there is a fairly rapid upgrade, this will be a huge drag on progress.

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They're not that bad.

Yes they are all older units because they were the first charging network. But it is a network and you can travel throughout the motorway network using it.

Placement-wise they are generally near to the buildings because that's where the electricity is.

They are mostly double headed units with Chademo + Type2 and Chademo + CCS, generally located in pairs. If you have a Zoe or something with a CSS socket you have fewer chargers available to you.

They're 'lower' capacity at 50kW but then so are everyone else's. High capacity chargers other than Tesla are a rarity. I've never actually seen one.

 

I've never not been able to charge at the services because of a broken charger. I have seen broken chargers but there has always been a working one next to it.

[Ron Ron Ron]

13 minutes ago, 30801 said:

.....They're 'lower' capacity at 50kW but then so are everyone else's. High capacity chargers other than Tesla are a rarity. I've never actually seen one.....

 

150kW chargers are now being installed by BP Chargemaster and Pod-Point.

There should be several hundred of these in operation within a year or two.

 

BP Chargemaster's first 150kW charging station became operational last month.

They alone are planning 400 ultra-fast charging points by 2021, which include 100 units at 50 sites by the end of 2019.

 

With similar plans from other providers, it would appear that the public charging landscape is expanding very rapidly.

 

 

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Edited September 12, 2019 by Ron Ron Ron

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

They alone are planning 400 ultra-fast charging points by 2021, which include 100 units at 50 sites by the end of 2019.

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You stand a pretty good chance of not being in any of those 50 places

Edited September 12, 2019 by 30801

[Ron Ron Ron]

6 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

You stand a pretty good chance of not being in any of those 50 places

 

and in 6 months time, a year, two years....?????

 

As Phil Parker rightly said above "The petrol garage network didn't appear overnight".

 

Here's another example....

 

Quote

Volkswagen and Tesco are proud to announce the development of the largest UK retail electric vehicle (EV) charging network, powered by Pod Point.

The world’s largest vehicle manufacturer and the UK’s largest fuel retailer will roll out more than 2,400 EV charging bays across 600 Tesco stores within the next three years.

Volkswagen, Tesco and Pod Point will roll out UK’s largest retail network of EV chargers

2,400 charging bays are set to be created at Tesco sites nationwide

600 stores will have fast or rapid charging by 2020  
 

 

 

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Edited September 12, 2019 by Ron Ron Ron

[Nick C]

16 hours ago, royaloak said:

I see quite a few people using the touch screen on their mobile phones every day.

 

I was going to say "Not while driving though", although sadly there seem to be far too many who do...

 

1 hour ago, The Fatadder said:

Certainly the market seems to be going the way of SUV / Crossovers which does help sorting the space issue, with Kia / Hyundai /MG all offering electric SUVs with more space, along with Audi/Jaguar/Mercedes all going for SUVs as their entrys (and BMW also looking likely to go for a iX3 as their next EV).

The bigger problem is the charging network, at the moment it seems to be just about coping (although everything I have read about Ecotricity’s Electric Highway which provides the chargers on the motorway is bad).  As more people shift (which will clearly be the case over the next 3 years given BIK on company cars will be 0%/1%/2% respectively), charging capacity is going to get a lot worse.   That is where the real issues will come around the Bristol area in the summer, as all the grockles heading south realise they need to use the same handful of chargers for half an hour….

 

It will start to be the same issue in company car parks as well.  At the moment in my office there are two Teslas, a 330e and a plug in C class, with my i3 due to come in a few months time.  I am trying to convince them to add some charging points in the car park, but even with the current demand they would be over loaded.  As more switch the fight over who gets the charger in the morning could get painfull…

 

The number of charging points isn't the big problem there, that's fairly easy to solve. The problem is the distribution network to get the power to those charging points. Our electricity network is creaking at the seams as it is, so we need to have a big rethink about how we produce and distribute power. I can see a big shift towards more localised generation (solar panels on the roof of your office/warehouse/shopping centre for example), but that doesn't help when everyone gets home and plugs their car in to charge overnight - the 'last mile' substations can currently only cope with, IIRC, about 1 in 6 houses drawing full capacity (60 or 100 Amps per house), so they'll all need to be upgraded as demand increases. Or, of course, as discussed in the smart meter thread, they'll just "adjust demand" to suit the supply by whacking the prices up...

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 the VW e-UP

 

Is it built in Yorkshire?

 

Mike.

[runs as required]

42 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Is it built in Yorkshire?

 

Mike.

Nowthen Siri !

You mean like Apple just copied Derbyshire dialect?

[Titan]

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

 

I was going to say "Not while driving though", although sadly there seem to be far too many who do...

 

 

The number of charging points isn't the big problem there, that's fairly easy to solve. The problem is the distribution network to get the power to those charging points. Our electricity network is creaking at the seams as it is, so we need to have a big rethink about how we produce and distribute power. I can see a big shift towards more localised generation (solar panels on the roof of your office/warehouse/shopping centre for example), but that doesn't help when everyone gets home and plugs their car in to charge overnight - the 'last mile' substations can currently only cope with, IIRC, about 1 in 6 houses drawing full capacity (60 or 100 Amps per house), so they'll all need to be upgraded as demand increases. Or, of course, as discussed in the smart meter thread, they'll just "adjust demand" to suit the supply by whacking the prices up...

 

And when gas central heating is phased out everyone will be heating their homes on electric too...

[royaloak]

3 hours ago, Nick C said:

 

I was going to say "Not while driving though", although sadly there seem to be far too many who do...

I did mean to say while driving but missed that bit out, just the 3 today, 2 on the move and one while stationary at traffic lights.

[boxbrownie]

8 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

144 miles WTLP is plenty though. For my usual trip from Wiltshire to Leeds that's one stop which is what I did with a petrol anyway.

 

Plus it's six grand cheaper than a Corsa.

 

Six grand.

I’d be very careful of relying on that range claim just yet, in a car heavier than an i3 94ah with the same size battery......hmmm.....more like a genuine 120 miles real world driving (only just).....less if 70mph Motorway is your thing......

[Ron Ron Ron]

6 hours ago, Nick C said:

.......The problem is the distribution network to get the power to those charging points.

Our electricity network is creaking at the seams as it is, so we need to have a big rethink about how we produce and distribute power.

I can see a big shift towards more localised generation (solar panels on the roof of your office/warehouse/shopping centre for example), but that doesn't help when everyone gets home and plugs their car in to charge overnight - the 'last mile' substations can currently only cope with, IIRC, about 1 in 6 houses drawing full capacity (60 or 100 Amps per house), so they'll all need to be upgraded as demand increases. Or, of course, as discussed in the smart meter thread, they'll just "adjust demand" to suit the supply by whacking the prices up...

 

4 hours ago, Titan said:

 

And when gas central heating is phased out everyone will be heating their homes on electric too...

 

These issues are addressed in this article from German's DW News,.

it's about a trial being conducted in Germany to test and evaluate the demands placed on the local electricity supply system by a residential street where every household is issued with and charges an EV overnight.

The impact of increasing use of electricity for domestic heat pumps and electrical heating, as they replace gas and oil fired heating, is being thought about too.

 

Will millions of electric vehicles disrupt Germany's power grid?

 

 

 

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[boxbrownie]

6 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

They're not that bad.

Yes they are all older units because they were the first charging network. But it is a network and you can travel throughout the motorway network using it.

Placement-wise they are generally near to the buildings because that's where the electricity is.

They are mostly double headed units with Chademo + Type2 and Chademo + CCS, generally located in pairs. If you have a Zoe or something with a CSS socket you have fewer chargers available to you.

They're 'lower' capacity at 50kW but then so are everyone else's. High capacity chargers other than Tesla are a rarity. I've never actually seen one.

 

I've never not been able to charge at the services because of a broken charger. I have seen broken chargers but there has always been a working one next to it.

When we actually do use the i3 for long distance we have always used Ecotricity pumps at services, and despite all the moans about them we have NEVER found one not working and every single pump has been close to the buildings, and only once we had to wait for a Leaf to finish charging (10 minutes) while we had a rest break.

 

They are “the first” network and as such getting old now, but recently news has been released that they are all being updated with new units of higher capacity, just like revamping old petrol stations really.

Edited September 12, 2019 by boxbrownie

[boxbrownie]

6 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

You stand a pretty good chance of not being in any of those 50 places

Yes, but that is only three months, not “in the future”........things are moving faster nowadays.

[boxbrownie]

4 hours ago, Titan said:

 

And when gas central heating is phased out everyone will be heating their homes on electric too...

Yes, but by then it’ll be by using more efficient heat pumps air and or ground source, maybe roof mounted PV panels/tiles etc, technology finds a way.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, royaloak said:

I did mean to say while driving but missed that bit out, just the 3 today, 2 on the move and one while stationary at traffic lights.

A real pet hate of mine, let alone dopey tw@ts wandering along on foot paying more attention to “the screen” than real life.......use of phones in cars should result in MUCH higher penalties than at present.......if I had my way they’d have their phone contract suspended for a few months if caught driving on the phone!

[Ron Ron Ron]

A new motor manufacturing brand name to most people.

A Chinese based manufacturer who are building up production, to supply hundreds of thousands of EV's to the USA, Canada and Europe, as well for the Chinese market.

 

New 2020 Byton M-byte electric car confirmed for the UK

Photos from this week's Frankfurt Motor Show.

 

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Edited September 12, 2019 by Ron Ron Ron

[Ron Ron Ron]

The EV replacement for the Golf GTI ?

 

Volkswagen to launch high-performance ID 3 R by 2024

 

Four-wheel-drive and high-output electric motors will allow better acceleration than the current Golf GTI.

 

 

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[boxbrownie]

7 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

A new motor manufacturing brand name to most people.

A Chinese based manufacturer who are building up production, to supply hundreds of thousands of EV's to the USA, Canada and Europe, as well for the Chinese market.

 

New 2020 Byton M-byte electric car confirmed for the UK

Photos from this week's Frankfurt Motor Show.

 

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What a very refreshing outlook, and IMHO a long time coming, not everyone wants a formula one car on the road!

 

‘Byton’s Chief Technical Officer, David Twohig, said the company is targeting comfort and refinement instead of chasing after performance EVs. The car will feature conventional steel springs and dampers, and it will not be offered with air suspension. “We’re not trying to chase some ultimate handling target but what I do want is a class-leading ride and comfort,” Twohig told us. “If you want to set lap records on the Nordschleife, pick another car. So many cars have this horrible body movement and jiggling, and that’s bad secondary ride. We’re working very hard to eliminate that because that’s annoying and tiring over time.”

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

I’d be very careful of relying on that range claim just yet, in a car heavier than an i3 94ah with the same size battery......hmmm.....more like a genuine 120 miles real world driving (only just).....less if 70mph Motorway is your thing......

 

120 miles would be my guess too. So good for one stop on my trip 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Yes, but by then it’ll be by using more efficient heat pumps air and or ground source, maybe roof mounted PV panels/tiles etc, technology finds a way.

 

Yeah, it's not such a big deal. Nobody worries about warmer places where every house has air conditioning which is no different to heat pump heating. Not to mention here in the UK where we have whole estates running storage heaters.

 

The office is heated by air source heat pumps and I get to it in a car heated by an air source heat pump. Roughly a third of the energy requirements compared with a simple heating element.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

When we actually do use the i3 for long distance we have always used Ecotricity pumps at services, and despite all the moans about them we have NEVER found one not working and every single pump has been close to the buildings, and only once we had to wait for a Leaf to finish charging (10 minutes) while we had a rest break.

 

I have to say last year every time I stopped at Leicester Forest South bound the CCS unit was broken every time. Obviously no big deal for me with a Leaf (and a card to work the two AC units).

[Buhar]

I recently received an email from Ecotricity about their prices going up to fund renewal of their older chargers and in it they say they are still a making a loss (I presume on the Electric Highway bit rather than the business as a whole).  I have had problems with lack of Type 2 chargers or units out of order, including a nightmare journey down the road equivalent of the ECML.  That said, I've also had quite a few free charges and the units are invariably near the building (unlike Teslas).  So it's probably a 6 out of 10 on satisfaction.

 

Alan

Edited September 12, 2019 by Buhar
Name

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

A real pet hate of mine, let alone dopey tw@ts wandering along on foot paying more attention to “the screen” than real life.......use of phones in cars should result in MUCH higher penalties than at present.......if I had my way they’d have their phone contract suspended for a few months if caught driving on the phone!

 

I've said this before but I do think that, sadly, receiving a phone ban would worry a lot more people than receiving a driving ban.

[johnofwessex]

I lived in a house with Storage Heaters once.

 

Blew the Company Fuse one morning when having a shower - with the Tumble Dryer on, & the fuse on the Distribution Transformer blew a few weeks later