Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

The biggest issue with touchscreen “buttons” is hitting them accurately while on the move, a physical button is tactile and you know your touching the correct “thing” before pressing, with a touchscreen it’s just all smooth and the driver usually has to actually “look properly” at the button before operating.....touch screens are great for iPads/tablets in your lap where you actually concentrate on the screen but while driving you don’t really have enough time.

I see quite a few people using the touch screen on their mobile phones every day.

[boxbrownie]

32 minutes ago, royaloak said:

I see quite a few people using the touch screen on their mobile phones every day.

Yes, and their iPads/Tablets.......if your holding the unit in your hand you fingers aren’t swaying around in “free air” as they are using touchscreen in a vehicle whilst driving.

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Its a very strange set up from what I can see, with even the speedometer included on the central touch screen.  Which seems even more counter intuitive, I want to see my speed in front of me!...

 

On first contact with the car, every video and magazine reviewer expresses their misgivings about the lack of a traditional instrument cluster in front of them and the placing of primary information, such as speed etc, on the central display.

Once they have been driving it for a short while, most of them say it becomes quite intuitive and their initial disorientation is overcome.

However.......

 

2 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

.......(No doubt there is an optional hud which would provide that at a cost, but not in the "standard" car)

 

Quite a few reviewers and owner reviews, say that a HUD would be a very useful addition, especially as the usual drivers instruments have been moved to the central display.

Unfortunately, a HUD is not even an option on the Tesla 3 .....as yet.

 

 

2 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

.....Changing things like temperature or switching on things like heated seats a physical button just makes so much more sense.

 

Speaking from 1st hand experience (one of our cars has all these controls on the touch screen display), I quite agree.

It can be a real pain when you're driving, having to open functions and pop-up windows.

To a degree, the mitigation is the availability of voice recognition control, but that depends on how good the system is.

 

We can talk and give verbal instructions to 3 of our cars, but only one of them (the newest) has the facility to adjust climate functions via speech control.

Unfortunately, when asking for the temperature to go up or down, or when specifying a desired temperature, the adjustment is global (the whole interior) and doesn't take into account the 3 individual climate zones that manual adjustment through the screen can control separately.

 

..

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

[The Fatadder]

I am shocked that a HUD isn’t an option on the TM3, I can understand getting used to it (though I never really got used to the central speedo on my wife’s old scenic). 

 

That said it wouldn’t have stopped me choosing the TM3 over the i3 that I am about to order if the option had been on the list.

[Ron Ron Ron]

According to Jonny Smith in that Mini video, the Electric version of the Mini Cooper S.   IS CHEAPER THAN THE PETROL VERSION in the same trim level. !!!!!!!!

 

 

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Edited September 11, 2019 by Ron Ron Ron

[Ron Ron Ron]

4 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

I am shocked that a HUD isn’t an option on the TM3, ....

 

It is rather surprising, considering the amount of high-tech on the car.

 

Maybe they're waiting until they can put an AR (Augmented Reality) HUD system in?

 

 

 

 

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[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

According to Jonny Smith in that Mini video, the Electric version of the Mini Cooper S.   IS CHEAPER THAN THE PETROL VERSION in the same trim level. !!!!!!!!

.

 

It's also cheaper than the electric Vauxhall Corsa.

[Ron Ron Ron]

10 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

It's also cheaper than the electric Vauxhall Corsa.

 

The Mini has a smaller battery though and a much lower maximum range.

 

 

 

 

Ron

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

The Mini has a smaller battery though and a much lower maximum range.

 

144 miles WTLP is plenty though. For my usual trip from Wiltshire to Leeds that's one stop which is what I did with a petrol anyway.

 

Plus it's six grand cheaper than a Corsa.

 

Six grand.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

A couple of questions/observations.

What irrevocably secures the charging lead in place to prevent a random miscreant from nicking it?

What is going to happen in the perfect future when we all have EV's and the six weeks school holiday and random bank holidays occur. Mr average family of four and all of his attendant paraphenalia will have difficulty fitting any of the present vehicles, so is the development of estate cars/larger MPV's going to be a future avenue? Also, generally speaking, at holiday times people are taking their holidays in the same general direction, so with a car full of people and chattles consumption is going to be considerably worse, and suddenly thousands of motorists will be attempting to recharge on the same road at the same time, I'm thinking specifically of the journeys made into Devon/Cornwall and the chaos which ensues around Bristol, so what infrastructure will need to be in place for this sort of irregular need, and what will it cost?

 

Mike.

[Fenman]

1 minute ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

...

What is going to happen in the perfect future when we all have EV's and the six weeks school holiday and random bank holidays occur. Mr average family of four and all of his attendant paraphenalia will have difficulty fitting any of the present vehicles, so is the development of estate cars/larger MPV's going to be a future avenue?

...

 

Do a search for VW ID Buzz. Arriving in 2022 apparently. 

 

Paul

[Ron Ron Ron]

49 minutes ago, 30801 said:

......Plus it's six grand cheaper than a Corsa.

 

Six grand.

 

No it's not.

 

Corsa-e starts from £26,490   (with the government funded rebate of £3500)

Mini EV starts from £24,400.   (with the government funded rebate of £3500)

 

£2090 ..... not £6k

 

 

List prices OTR   (before options and with the government funded rebate of £3500 applied)

 

Electric Mini trim ranges. 

Level 1 - £24,400

Level 2 - £26,400

Level 3 - £30.400

 

Corsa-e

SE-Nav  - £26,490

Elite -Nav - £29,810

 

 

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Edited September 12, 2019 by Ron Ron Ron

[Ian Morgan]

17 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

What irrevocably secures the charging lead in place to prevent a random miscreant from nicking it?

 

 

The charging plug on my car is locked to the car with the central locking, and normally I have to unlock the car before I can remove the plug. If using a tethered charging lead at a public charging point, I can select an option that unlocks the plug when charging is complete, enabling another user to remove it and charge their car.

 

I imagine other EVs operate in a similar fashion.

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Corsa-e

SE-Nav  - £26,490

Elite -Nav - £29,810

 

I just went to:

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/cars/new-corsa-e/build-and-price.html

ticked the boxes for a Corsa-e and it came to £30,555

 

Granted that might not include the grant.

[Ron Ron Ron]

26 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

.....Mr average family of four and all of his attendant paraphenalia will have difficulty fitting any of the present vehicles, so is the development of estate cars/larger MPV's going to be a future avenue?

 

The list of "present vehicles" contains a number of larger capacity family cars and SUV's.

Currently biased towards the expensive luxury end of the market, but that will change..

 

Luxury SUV's include ....Jaguar i-Pace, Audi e-tron, Mercedes EQC, Tesla Model X, (Volvo) Polestar 2

More mainstream types....Kia e-Niro, MG ZS EV

 

Lots of more affordable family sized, cross-over and SUV types have been announced as being in development.

For example, the Tesla Model Y, a mid-sized crossover based on the Model 3 and expected to be cheaper than its sibling, due to manufacturing in China.

(Note: a huge Tesla factory is currently being built in China).

Volkswagen Group have over 20 different EV models in development and pre-production.

 

Not to mention, the wholesale introduction of new Hybrid versions of current models across most manufacturer's ranges.

Volvo have just announced their completion of transforming their whole range to Hybrid models from 2020, with the launch of the re-engined XC40 line up.

PSA Group, BMW and Mercedes are going the same way.

Toyota/Lexus are almost all Hybrid across the full range, with EV's in the pipeline.

 

The market for and availability of pure ICE power in new cars, apart from a few niche areas, will be almost dead within the next 5 years.

 

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[TheQ]

27 minutes ago, Ian Morgan said:

 

The charging plug on my car is locked to the car with the central locking, and normally I have to unlock the car before I can remove the plug. If using a tethered charging lead at a public charging point, I can select an option that unlocks the plug when charging is complete, enabling another user to remove it and charge their car.

 

I imagine other EVs operate in a similar fashion.

 

i can easily imagine some prat having "fun" wooden handled axe, just go down a row of tethered cables, chop chop chop lots of pretty sparks...

[Ron Ron Ron]

15 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

I just went to:

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/cars/new-corsa-e/build-and-price.html

ticked the boxes for a Corsa-e and it came to £30,555

 

Granted that might not include the grant.

 

That is indeed without the grant.

 

Mini EV without the grant starts at £27,900 going up to £33,900  (3 trim levels).

 

From what I can make out, the roughly equivalent trim to the Corsa-e SE-Nav - £29,990 before the grant -  is the Mini EV Level 2 at £29,900.

Price parity?

I'm not sure. The Corsa-e SE-Nav may be closer to the base Mini Level 1, making the Mini £2000 cheaper.

 

The top of the range Corsa is £600 cheaper than the top Mini EV, although the level of trim and kit may be higher on the Mini.

 

 

 

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[The Fatadder]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

A couple of questions/observations.

What irrevocably secures the charging lead in place to prevent a random miscreant from nicking it?

What is going to happen in the perfect future when we all have EV's and the six weeks school holiday and random bank holidays occur. Mr average family of four and all of his attendant paraphenalia will have difficulty fitting any of the present vehicles, so is the development of estate cars/larger MPV's going to be a future avenue? Also, generally speaking, at holiday times people are taking their holidays in the same general direction, so with a car full of people and chattles consumption is going to be considerably worse, and suddenly thousands of motorists will be attempting to recharge on the same road at the same time, I'm thinking specifically of the journeys made into Devon/Cornwall and the chaos which ensues around Bristol, so what infrastructure will need to be in place for this sort of irregular need, and what will it cost?

 

Mike. 

Certainly the market seems to be going the way of SUV / Crossovers which does help sorting the space issue, with Kia / Hyundai /MG all offering electric SUVs with more space, along with Audi/Jaguar/Mercedes all going for SUVs as their entrys (and BMW also looking likely to go for a iX3 as their next EV).

The bigger problem is the charging network, at the moment it seems to be just about coping (although everything I have read about Ecotricity’s Electric Highway which provides the chargers on the motorway is bad).  As more people shift (which will clearly be the case over the next 3 years given BIK on company cars will be 0%/1%/2% respectively), charging capacity is going to get a lot worse.   That is where the real issues will come around the Bristol area in the summer, as all the grockles heading south realise they need to use the same handful of chargers for half an hour….

 

It will start to be the same issue in company car parks as well.  At the moment in my office there are two Teslas, a 330e and a plug in C class, with my i3 due to come in a few months time.  I am trying to convince them to add some charging points in the car park, but even with the current demand they would be over loaded.  As more switch the fight over who gets the charger in the morning could get painfull…

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 minute ago, TheQ said:

i can easily imagine some prat having "fun" wooden handled axe, just go down a row of tethered cables, chop chop chop lots of pretty sparks...

 

Doesn't that rather suggest that it's about time a serious grip is taken on the awful level of lawlessness and delinquency in this country?

 

For such an offence, I suggest said cables are attached the the miscreant's nether regions, to full effect.

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

9 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

...The bigger problem is the charging network, at the moment it seems to be just about coping (although everything I have read about Ecotricity’s Electric Highway which provides the chargers on the motorway is bad).  .....

 

....It will start to be the same issue in company car parks as well.  .....

 

I'm not an EV owner or driver....yet, .....but everything I've read and heard, suggests Ecotricity's motorway network is dire.

Poor reliability and serviceability. 

A very limited number of charging points, often stuck in a  damp corner or similar.

As early providers, their charging points are overwhelmingly older, lower charging capacity types. 

Unfortunately, they have an exclusive contract for most of the motorway network's service areas.

Unless there is a fairly rapid upgrade, this will be a huge drag on progress.

 

You make very good points about provision in the workplace.

According to old work colleagues (I retired early, 5 years ago), the car park at my old workplace now has 4 or 5 chargers. However the car park houses some 400 or so cars. It's not difficult to do the maths.

Let's also not forget, staff car park provision, or full provision, is not universal or the norm.

 

 

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[Karhedron]

Skoda's electric Citigo is coming early next year. Reports suggest it is a long range version of the VW e-UP and is expected to be competitively priced. This cuold be the sort of car I am looking for. I had an Octovia for many years and would happily buy a Skoda again.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-frankfurt-motor-show/new-skoda-citigo-e-iv-arrives-frankfurt

[Ian Morgan]

35 minutes ago, TheQ said:

i can easily imagine some prat having "fun" wooden handled axe, just go down a row of tethered cables, chop chop chop lots of pretty sparks...

 

These types are still enjoying just "keying" parked cars - easier and safer, keys can be carried with impunity, whereas walking down a street with an axe ...

 

 

[Reorte]

11 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

According to old work colleagues (I retired early, 5 years ago), the car park at my old workplace now has 4 or 5 chargers. However the car park houses some 400 or so cars. It's not difficult to do the maths.

Let's also not forget, staff car park provision, or full provision, is not universal or the norm.

Same where I am - 4 chargers, not sure how many places in total but it'll be of the same order of magnitude. On the other hand they said they were a trial when first installed and they usually seem to be in use so perhaps there'll be more coming.

[Phil Parker]

Supply and demand. The petrol garage network didn't appear overnight.