Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[Hroth]

Not a particularly appealing front end!

 

[idd15]

Ooo err It’s got a key and proper buttons! What goes around comes around…😀

idd

[PatB]

Currently watching the prices of small van EVs come down, and availability improve, with a view to replacing our current diesel Scudo in about 3 years. The choice at the moment is between the Peugeot ePartner and the Renault Kangoo E-Tech. Either would do the job. The Kangoo is still a little pricey, but I note that it's currently possible to get an ex-demo Partner (still less than 1000km) for under $50k, which is starting to look somewhere near affordable. Hopefully pricing and choice will improve in the interim.

[Hobby]

10 hours ago, idd15 said:

Ooo err It’s got a key and proper buttons! What goes around comes around…😀

idd

 

We hired a car in Latvia last week and it had keys... I kept unlocking the car, putting the keys back into my pocket and getting into the car before I realised I should have them in my hand to put into the key hole! I wish they'd make their minds up!!

[Ian Morgan]

6 hours ago, PatB said:

Currently watching the prices of small van EVs come down, and availability improve, with a view to replacing our current diesel Scudo in about 3 years. The choice at the moment is between the Peugeot ePartner and the Renault Kangoo E-Tech. Either would do the job. The Kangoo is still a little pricey, but I note that it's currently possible to get an ex-demo Partner (still less than 1000km) for under $50k, which is starting to look somewhere near affordable. Hopefully pricing and choice will improve in the interim.

 

 

[PatB]

4 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

 

 

Lots of interesting stuff there. It's good to see the expanding range available. Realistically it's going to be a while before a lot of it's available to me (because Australia), but it's nice to know it's coming.

[Ian Morgan]

An interesting little booklet created by the RAC, Fully Charged Show, Tusker and others:

 

https://www.faircharge.co.uk/little-book-of-ev-myths

 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

We are now seeing waves of electric cars coming off 3 and 4 year leases and being sold on through the used car market.

(n.b. annual used car sales are almost 4 times the number of new registrations)

 

Reports are that used EV sales are up by 71% in the first quarter of 2024, compared with the same period last year.

 

There are bargains available at very affordable prices, in some cases making it a no brainier to buy a used EV, particularly if it’s still got years of manufacturers warranty left, compared with a similarly priced used ICE of the same age.

 

 

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[PatB]

3 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

We are now seeing waves of electric cars coming off 3 and 4 year leases and being sold on through the used car market.

(n.b. annual used car sales are almost 4 times the number of new registrations)

 

Reports are that used EV sales are up by 71% in the first quarter of 2024, compared with the same period last year.

 

There are bargains available at very affordable prices, in some cases making it a no brainier to buy a used EV, particularly if it’s still got years of manufacturers warranty left, compared with a similarly priced used ICE of the same age.

 

 

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I've always been of the opinion that one of the big game-changers on uptake would be when the bigger fleets turned over their first EV purchases, this putting a glut of generally good condition used EVs onto the market at relatively affordable prices. I'll be interested to see what happens.

 

We're still a way off seeing this in Australia, but it'll come.

[melmerby]

Are the green flashes on the LH end of UK registration plates actually there for a proper reason?

 

I assumed they were compulsory but I've noticed more and more EVs without them, including a neighbour's S/H Zoe and a brand new Tesla.

[idd15]

24 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Are the green flashes on the LH end of UK registration plates actually there for a proper reason?

 

I assumed they were compulsory but I've noticed more and more EVs without them, including a neighbour's S/H Zoe and a brand new Tesla.

As l understand it they are not compulsory, you can opt not to have the green flash on the number plate. They’re just a way of identifying an EV and there were some perks with a few  councils offering free parking if you had an EV plate. Grant Shapps introduced them as a way of raising awareness of electric vehicles and to help them go mainstream. 
 

Some people believe they have been effective in raising awareness and with over 1.1 million EV’s on the road they’re now a pretty common sight. But to the best of my knowledge there hasn’t been any formal research into the effectiveness of the green flash.

HTH

idd

[idd15]

Gridserve have launched their new phone app. It has one or two extra bells & whistles but crucially there is a 20% discount applied if you charge via the app. The offer applies until midnight on the 30th September. 
 

I’m a bit anti app were charging is concerned, but hey for 20% discount I’ll give it a punt! 🙂

 

HTH

idd

[Hroth]

I see that the EU is enacting protectionist measures against Chinese EVs on the grounds that they may be excessively subsidised by the Chinese government.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy99z53qypko

 

While this might be so, European car makers have contributed to the problem by concentrating on large SUVs that are expensive and don't suit buyers who want smaller city cars and superminis.  European manufacturers are beginning to address this gaping own goal, but their products are one or two years away from general availability.

 

The price-hike may discourage the purchase of new Chinese EVs, but rather than buy new European EVs, there may be a demand for cheaper secondhand EVs that are three to four years old and comfortably within their battery warranty period, until new cars at a cheaper price band are available. This might not be helpful to local manufacturers...

 

 

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

While this might be so, European car makers have contributed to the problem by concentrating on large SUVs that are expensive and don't suit buyers who want smaller city cars and superminis or ordinary hatchbacks and estate cars. 

 

😉

Edited July 4 by Hobby

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

I see that the EU is enacting protectionist measures against Chinese EVs on the grounds that they may be excessively subsidised by the Chinese government….

 

 

You may also note that some European manufacturers are protesting against this EU move.

Most BMW EV’s are made in China, including the ones exported to and sold in Europe.

Volvo’s EV’s are similarly made in China, as are all the cars from their sister company, Polestar.

 

 

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[Hroth]

42 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

You may also note that some European manufacturers are protesting against this EU move.

Most BMW EV’s are made in China, including the ones exported to and sold in Europe.

Volvo’s EV’s are similarly made in China, as are all the cars from their sister company, Polestar.

 

Then there's the (Renault) Dacia Spring, currently due by autumn and possibly the cheapest EV that's a real car on the European market.  That'll get hit if its affected by the tariff measures too.

 

[PatB]

I've always tended to think that the best protection for any industry is to make the products that customers want to buy.

[Hobby]

I'd suggest that's the last thing they'd do. Instead they make stuff their marketing people suggest they can sell, and then set about changing peoples opinions!

[Grovenor]

3 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

You may also note that some European manufacturers  importers are protesting against this EU move.

Most BMW EV’s are made in China, including the ones exported to and sold in Europe.

Volvo’s EV’s are similarly made in China, as are all the cars from their sister company, Polestar.

Changed it, manufacturers in the sam vein as Hornby. 😒

[melmerby]

Without trawling back through nearly 300 pages, how long is an EV battery expected to last and how long is it guaranteed? (typically)

Also what's the typical guarantee on an electric car compared to a ICE car?

[melmerby]

13 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

Changed it, manufacturers in the sam vein as Hornby. 😒

In the same vein as many manufacturers. Why pick on Hornby?

 

A lot of stuff from B&Q and Screwfix is imported but the official manufacturer is listed as Kingfisher in the UK.

Many seem to want to hide the source of their products and labelling laws seem rather lax in this area.

[idd15]

3 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Then there's the (Renault) Dacia Spring, currently due by autumn and possibly the cheapest EV that's a real car on the European market.  That'll get hit if its affected by the tariff measures too.

 

I think it is made in Hungary, or possibly Rumania, in which case the proposed tariffs won’t apply.

 

Norway has also said it will not apply the Tariffs, though it is not a “full fat” member of the EU.

 

cheers

idd

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, Grovenor said:

Changed it, manufacturers in the sam vein as Hornby. 😒

Not a good analogy.

Those car manufactures make their own cars in their own factories, both in Europe and around the world.

The German car makers have factories in China too.

Volvo and Polestar are owned by the Chinese company, Geely.

Whereas, Hornby outsource their manufacturing to Chinese companies.

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Without trawling back through nearly 300 pages, how long is an EV battery expected to last and how long is it guaranteed? (typically)

Also what's the typical guarantee on an electric car compared to a ICE car?

EV batteries should be good for a minimum of 200,000 miles, provided they’ve not been abused for lengthy periods of time.

Many should pass half a million miles.

Battery guarantees are for 7, 8 or even 10 years, depending on the car brand, but the battery isn’t going to just die at the end of that period.
Their useful life in a vehicle is supposed to be until their charging capacity is reduced to around 70%.

Many early Tesla’s, which are 10 years old or so, are reported as still having 85 to 90% capacity, with degradation slowing after the first couple of years., demonstrating that these cars will go on for a lot longer than a typical ICE vehicle

The average age at which an ICE car is scrapped, has risen quite a lot over the last 10 years to around 14 years.

Modern cars are are better built and engineered than ever before and a well maintained ICE vehicle should be good for 200,000 miles, but many will never reach that sort of mileage, as wear and tear on major components will make them uneconomic to repair.

Many of the components that are expensive to replace in ICE vehicles, simply don’t exist in an EV.

 

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[PatB]

On the subject of cheap Chinese EVs, I would point out that historical precedent suggests that "cheap", in and of itself, does not guarantee market dominance.

 

During the 1979s and 80s there was widespread availability of both cars and motorcycles from the former Soviet bloc countries, sold at heavily subsidised prices to raise desperately needed hard currency. Whilst a few gained modest sales success (Lada and Skoda mostly), the vast majority remained niche products due mainly to, shall we say, dubious quality control and rather outdated designs.

 

I conclude from this that "cheap" will only flood the market if it is also, at the very least, not nasty.