Dymented - the Serious stuff starts!

[Philou]

Hello chums and chumesses,

 

Today was a bitsa day - lots happening but not much done.

 

The village hall was spring cleansed as we're having a neighbourhood lunch and as thundery rain is announced for tomorrow it was felt wise to hold the meal indoors. The mairie was also being prepared as a polling station for the Euro-elections (you're mostly not involved - can't remember why ;)) ). The whole village has been coralled as polling clerks (2hr stints in pairs) including Mrs Philou and I. That was the day sorted!

 

All I managed to do with the short space of time left was to continue the glueing of the green laminate flooring underlay and to fill the gaps between the rock face and the plywood track base ready for a bit of flocking in due course. I also had fun having a dry run in laying out the pointwork in the station area of Dymented. I'm going to have to find my photos that I took of the earlier dry run as things don't seem to be fitting quite as originally visualised - oo-er.

 

My point motors still haven't yet materialised as they were marked for delivery on Wednesday - but the delivery details were modified to say they're still at the 'hub' - wherever the 'hub' might be! I hope they're not umming and aaahing about any VAT add-ons!

 

Talking about points, I'd forgotten that I have some surgery to do on quite few of cross-over junctions to enable a 45mm centre-line spacing to be maintained. I shall need to get cracking on that too as I shan't be able to attach any point-motors without the points being in their correct positions. I think my brain will explode with all this thinking ahead nonsense :)).

 

Due to the lunch tomorrow and then clerking on Sunday, I doubt if there'll be an update before Monday.

 

Keep well and enjoy the weekend,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Philou]

As an add-on, just had a look at my original dry-run photos that I'd posted up at the beginning of the year - I can see that I hadn't laid the points at the branch-line underbridge in their right positions throwing everything that end out of kilter and at the Pontrilas end I've used a Y whereas it should have been a L/H turnout. The Y itself should be at the Ledbury end. All sorted in my head - for now.

[Philou]

Hello chaps and chapesses,

 

Still no point motors as they seem to be still in the 'hub'. Mrs Philou received an odd message on her mobile stating that they had tried to put a parcel in our postbox but it was too big. There was a number we didn't recognise, I certainly never gave her mobile to DCC and in addition the parcel is to be signed-for. Was it a scam - or was it really my parcel? We will see.

 

Today was yet another afternoon of activity as I painted out all the green underlay in white to seal it (I should have used grey but I haven't any in stock) and to more easily see pencil lines when I mark out the trackwork.

 

I also did this:

 

 

 

^ Here we are: Two sets of cross-overs that have been modified to give a centre-line spacing of 45mm. The upper set is the Ledbury end of the station that leads to the station yard and the branch and the lower pair giving access to Pontrilas and the headshunt.

 

Where the upper pair meet heel-to-heel, I trimmed off about 27mm of rail opposite the common crossing with a slitting disk and cut through the web under the sleepers of the upper left switch (left as in the photos). The ends of those sleepers I simply trimmed off so to be able to interlace with the others remaining. It was then a question of carefully threading the excess common crossing rail back into the chairs and interlacing the sleepers at the same time. Finally, the points were bent slightly, the left one to form a Y and the right one to tighten the curve slightly (does the above make sense?).

 

The lower pair were adapted in the same way except the one point was a curved one already that I tightened up slightly and the other one being a straight I reformed into a shallow Y.

 

In neither of the pairs did I cut any more of the webs as I only wanted slight curving of the points - not as much as did @LNER4479 on his layout. Where I have differed too is that the facing common crossings have been air gapped rather than having insulated joiners (as I can't find them!). It meant that I had no need to weaken the crossing further by cutting of the chairs to fit the insulated joiners. However, I will need to take greater care in spacing out the sleepers on the next set.

 

Good news was that my 'standard' test vehicle (bogie coach) sailed through without any issues!

 

Tomorrow I will start marking out the trackwork on the newly painted surface - I just hope the pointmotors come sooner rather than later!

 

Cheers and definitely more tomorrow,

 

Philip

[lezz01]

I have a large quantity of H&M point motors if you have a use for some Philip. Many of them are brand spanky many are unused and I have a big box of untested ones to go through as well.

Regards Lez.

[JeffP]

Regarding the lack of insulated rail joiners, are we certain that temperature fluctuations won't close the gap?

My rule of thumb:

"If you give something the chance to c*ck up, it will.

[Andy Hayter]

A tiny sliver of 5 or 10thou microstrip glued to the end of the rail will solve that.

[Geep7]

Or just a tiny dab of pva in the joint.

[Philou]

Thanks chaps for all the suggestions regarding the 'gapping'. I had already tried it before without any issues but I will keep an eye on the trackwork - especially if there are mysterious shorts. The slitting disk can always be re-used.

 

@lezz01 Thanks for the point motor offer - I don't know if they're slow acting ones or not, but the ones coming from DCC are servo types (slow acting) which is the effect that I want.

 

More update this evening.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[lezz01]

H&M point motors are the solenoid type.

Regards Lez. 

[Philou]

A new learning curve for me today. Putting fishplates onto Code75 rail (always Code100 'til now), using a Xuron cutter properly, remembering NOT to put conductive fishplates adjoining the common crossing and setting out the track properly. Yes, I'm into track laying - sort of.

 

I decided to start positioning the pointwork whilst waiting for those pesky point motors to arrive. However, pointwork placing is partly reliant on having some track also in position - but I'm underway. The branch trackwork where it passes under the mainline is (to me) the most important length as once down (forever), I can ballast it and paint it and then put the overbridge in place and do the trackwork on the raised section. Why? Because I need to put my hands down (one at a time of course) on the Dymented station area when working further back, and I don't want to damage any trackwork if it can be avoided.

 

I shall take a photo tomorrow as I didn't have my camera with me and I ran out of time today.

 

Now about those point motors. They've been in the same hub for 6 days now and I happened to see our nice post-lady this lunchtime. I told her the problem and when I said I had a tracking number, she asked to have it and she would chase it up - what a good egg! Perhaps news in a day or so.

 

More tomorrow,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[JeffP]

La Poste is a bit like that.

Finding a post office that's actually open when you need it is a bit hit and miss, especially in the sticks.

But the delivery people seem to work long hours and do a decent job.

I once had a 3 litre can of concrete sealer delivered slightly leaking. The la Poste delivery driver filled in a form for me, and we sent it off.

Result: another can free four days later.

[Philou]

10 hours ago, JeffP said:

But the delivery people seem to work long hours and do a decent job

 

I absolutely agree and I expect, in the main, the same goes for Royal Mail.

 

The package has been released from 'le hub' after paying TVA plus the collection fee (thought I'd escaped that - grrrrr) and should be with me in a few days.

 

Nothing happened today as it was a visit by Mrs Philou to the dentist and then as we were in another galaxy far, far away, we were out for lunch.

 

Nonetheless, I do have some pictures of what I did yesterday:

 

 

 

 

^ This is the track laid temporarily until the pointmotors arrive when I'll have to mark out the positions where the point control is supposed to go through the base. I don't know yet what dimension I need to make the hole (it'll be somewhere around 10mm), others, so I understand use a router to cut a slot. My router only has a 1/4" blade that is probably too large to make a decent slot (no router skills yet!).

 

You will see that my photo skills need honing too as the panoramic shows a wobble on the retaining wall that doesn't exist. The two lower ones are 'normal' shots - the upper one showing a gentle curve through the station and the lower one showing the sweep under the mainline overbridge. This last one is the one I want to pin and ballast first so that I can then fix the overbridge in place and work along the mainline before doing permanent fixing in the Dymented station area. If the pointwork this side of the bridge stays as is, I'll be really pleased as I like the look of it.

 

Not a lot will happen tomorrow as I'm out doing numbering with M. le Maire in the woods in the afternoon and I doubt there'll be much time in the evening.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[lezz01]

You can bring the first turnout into line by curving the turnout with the yellow pin. If you don't know how to do it I can talk you through it.

Regards Lez.

[Philou]

@lezz01 Hi, the curve is as I want it - just a slight kink. I just want to put it back as is when I lift it up (again) to put the point motor in place :)) . It'll be fine unlike at the other end. In my excitation to get things moving, I trimmed the other pair (the curved and straight) when I should have left them uncut at a 50mm spacing as I've now thrown the geometry out. I'm going to have to have a look if I can recycle them into another junction elsewhere - otherwise I may have to buy new ones - bum! I should have referred to my photos first shouldn't have I? =:o

 

Hey ho - more curve learning!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Edit: Luckily for me I checked and I have a similar set up elsewhere, so a straight substitution - as in Blue Peter 'here's one I prepared earlier'.

Edited June 13 by Philou
Checking ........

[lezz01]

You should flog it all and build your own point work mate it's not difficult at all to build track. OK it's not hard once you get the hang of it. If you have access to a 3D printer Templot's plug track looks like it'll be an absolute breeze. British Finescale point kits are easy to build and look very nice. Or you can use C&L or exactoscale components or go full old school with ply and rivets and use the plastic chairs cosmetically.   

Regards Lez.

 

[kingmender]

Morning Philou

I made a template to slip under each point to drill both motor mounting holes and one for the actuator wire. I've used cobalt motors but the same would work (i believe) for Tortoise and others. Gently tacked in place through the small holes in the coners the point can be removed and 1.5mm holes drilled through the baseboard. Remove the template and open out the actuator wire hole into a slot approx 10mm x 3mm using a dremmel hole saw.

The template's holes have enlarged a little from approx 100 point motors but it give an easy way to fit motors accurately. I insert and remove screws on the underside of the board to begin to thread the holes making motor installation easier.

hope this helps 

Rodger

 

[GWR57xx]

Apologies if I’m talking nonsense.

I can’t remember your exact track plan for this section, but is that a single track branch line off a double track mainline?

if so, shouldn’t the point with the yellow pin be a single slip?

Would that affect the position of the point actuators?

[stevel]

7 hours ago, Philou said:

 

I absolutely agree and I expect, in the main, the same goes for Royal Mail.

 

The package has been released from 'le hub' after paying TVA plus the collection fee (thought I'd escaped that - grrrrr) and should be with me in a few days.

 

Nothing happened today as it was a visit by Mrs Philou to the dentist and then as we were in another galaxy far, far away, we were out for lunch.

 

Nonetheless, I do have some pictures of what I did yesterday:

 

 

 

I don't know yet what dimension I need to make the hole (it'll be somewhere around 10mm), others, so I understand use a router to cut a slot. My router only has a 1/4" blade that is probably too large to make a decent slot (no router skills yet!).

 

To get a straight cut, just use a straight edge to guide the router, with the guide on the left hand side and push away from you.

With your skills building baseboards etc, should be no problem.

 

Stephen

7 hours ago, Philou said:

 

 

 

[5BarVT]

Are you going to be removing the over centre spring to work with your slow acting motors?  Or removing the ‘ugly’ bits for the peco point motor.  If so, there are pitfalls to avoid!  For example the spring has two functions, one of which is still needed so needs to be replicated in a different manner.

Still not sure quite which motors you’re using so don’t want to clog up your story with irrelevant advice.

Paul.

[Philou]

Well, hello everyone and thanks for the bits of advice and information. I'll try answer the points raised in order. I tried last night but we had a very flaky internet connection (despite now being fibre) and I lost contact with the mothership:

 

@lezz01 I did the ply and rivets construction waaaaay back in 1966 when I did my first big layout (27'1" x 7'6") when I commandeered the attic at home. It was actually boxwood strip and cobblers' 'snobs' plus a Peco 'Rollagauge' (which I still have), a handful of Peco steel rail (that I also still have - never throw anything away, me) and a soldering iron. The big layout was waiting the arrival of the then newly announced Peco curved points which were taking forevah to come into stock - so I made my own. Result? 9/10 for effort, 6/10 for aesthetics and 2/10 for usability. Fortunately, the Peco equivalent soon arrived and I never looked back!

 

@kingmender What a good idea! I shall make one in plasticard. It'll save a lot of faff working underneath if the pilot holes are already placed from above. The good news is that the point motors are en route once again. I don't have a Dremel but a big Bosch router and a 6mm blade. I shall try to hone up my skills and create a slot. I did my stairs with it, it'll just be on a smaller scale!

 

@GWR57xx The track being laid through the station is double only within the confines of the platform area. It's intended to be the end of the two branchlines or a passing place depending on the traffic using the station. The point work at the ends serve a storage area at one end and a headshunt at the other. There's no double tracking elsewhere on the branch - so no slips needed here, they're reserved for the two other stations.

 

@stevel I probably would have tried to do it freehand - so good idea there.

 

More update this evening - I have maths to do with Mrs Philou's grandson. We're doing Scratch today - a programming programme :/ .

[Philou]

Oooh @5BarVT - do tell. I hadn't considered removing the spring.

[5BarVT]

6 hours ago, Philou said:

Oooh @5BarVT - do tell. I hadn't considered removing the spring.

I use Tortoise slow motion motors which have a spring steel drive wire (Cobalt IP use the same mechanism but with a slightly thicker wire I gather).  You adjust the throw and force using an adjustment plate that slides closer to or further away from the board.  I have found (by trial and error) that min. force, max. throw is best as it gives most tolerance on fixing position.  See 3rd from the left for my preferred adjustment.

 

 

With a slo-mo machine like the Tortoise, you will need a lot more force to overcome the spring resistance and once you have, the spring will give you a snap over action negating the purpose of slo-mo!  There is also the possibility of creating DCC shorts depending on how they are wired (see later post).

 

However, the spring also acts to push the point switches back towards the heel to keep them in place.  On recent peco points (my experience is code 100 but I think it applies to other styles too) the folded switch blades have two small tabs that fit each side of the web of the adjacent rails.  Without the spring, they can move far enough to fall off.  Some people fit a sliver of plasticard between the tie bar and adjacent sleeper to prevent movement (which then has to be disguised), but my method is to fit the Tortoise so that the drive wire is offset longitudinally and provides that spring pressure towards the toe.  Looking at your photo above, you may have the older version of peco points where the tabs are circular and horizontal and give the longitudinal restraint without the spring in place.

 

 

You can see the effect on my points - there is a gap on each of the closer switch blades because I hadn’t fitted the motors then.

 

You can see how I modify the points to make them better visually.  Removing the spring means that I can omit the spring cover - eventually ballast should cover the remaining base web in the 4’.  I cut off the extended timbers with the holes for the peco motor.  I also shorten the tie bars to remove the dimples.  This is where you need to respect ‘big railway’ design principles - the tie bar is what holds the switch rails in place vertically, so make sure that what is left still goes under the stock rail when the blade is open.  Some of mine are a tad short!

 

You can also see the DCC Concepts tie bar labels I use (I believe they are included with Cobalt motors now).  They are printed ballast with self adhesive (except under the tie bar).  You stick them to the underside of the point, then the operating aperture can be drilled through.  I mark both positions of the tiebar hole with a very fine pen, then drill a pilot hole (1.5mm cos that’s what lives in the drill).  If I remember, I mark out the fixing holes below using the pilot hole as an accurate position to mark fixing holes below.  If you’re happy drilling fixing holes right through, then template on top will be easier.  You need to be able to position the point exactly where it was when you marked out the tiebar hole!

I use an 8mm hole as that’s the drill size I have - why I am pernickety about careful positioning - drilling upwards to break the undersurface of the ply before drilling down to complete.  I find that prevents splintering as the drill exits on the way down.

 

Paul.

Edited June 13 by 5BarVT
Excess blank lines

[Philou]

Now then @5BarVT, funnily enough, my mods to the points were to be the cutting back of the Peco point motor attachments AND the cutting off of the dimples. In the case of the dimples I was going to throw the point to its extreme left/right and cut the dimple along the outer edge of the rail - which should have been enough - but I'll look at that carefully when the times comes. I think I'll throw the point anyway and cut off on the opposite side so that the bar is still partially under the rail. I wanted the dimples off for two reasons: 1) aesthetics; and 2) there isn't enough room when there are points adjacent to each other in a fan anyway.

 

Before I do any point motors, I'll set up a jig and test a Cobalt under a point and see what happens with the spring in place. If the spring overcomes the slo-mo, then out it will need to come.

 

Thanks to you all for the advice and ideas.

 

As for today, I've just got in from doing my woodsman badge and the only thing I was able to do before lunch was to redo the branchline/headshunt/double-to-single track junction without cutting any points - things are back to where they should have been. No photo though.

 

Mrs Philou came and had a look and she seemed impressed by the decor so far!

 

I may have more time tomorrow to make a jig as suggested by kingmender - I'll need a few different ones to cover curved, medium and large radii points (I can flip the jig(s) over for left or right).

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[5BarVT]

1 hour ago, Philou said:

In the case of the dimples I was going to throw the point to its extreme left/right and cut the dimple along the outer edge of the rail - which should have been enough - but I'll look at that carefully when the times comes.

I think that’s what I did on those that I am now concerned are a bit short.  It’s not very much extra at all that is needed, but always easier to remove a little more than put back over zealousness!

Paul.

[Philou]

Hello chums and chumesses,

 

I decided to crack on in the little time that I had this afternoon. I decided to do much as @5BarVT did to his points. I trimmed the dimples off the end of the tie-bar leaving enough that when the point is thrown fully the ends of the tie-bar are still located under the closure rain so no possibility of them get caught when moving. I also trimmed back the point motor support sleepers in length with their neighbours. As they looked a little dumpy I trimmed the width back too.

 

Whilst the points were out on the workbench I also drilled holes along the trackbed for the passing of feed wires to the points that will also bridge that gap with a Cadbury's Snack - sorry, old jingle that came into my head - bridge the closure and adjoining rails. The links under the points feeding the frogs have also been removed and a hole drilled under the frog emplacement through which will pass the frog juicer wire.

 

I also hedged my bets and drilled a 10mm diameter hole under the tie-bar allowing sufficient room for the pointmotor to operate freely. The hole cannot be seen from above, which is A Good Thing.

 

Tomorrow, I shall probably start the marking out the holes for fixing the pointmotors using the jig as proposed by @kingmender that I shall adapt accordingly as I found one solitary Cobalt motor that had been given to me ages ago and it will do as a template. Following that, I will lay a bus under the Dymented area and cut droppers and solder them to the plain track whilst I await the arrival of the DCC box as I need to see what has been provided in the kit for the wiring of the points themselves.

 

For the bus and droppers, I'm going for plain blue and brown cabling at 2.5mm² and 1mm² respectively as I had oodles of the stuff left over from when I was wiring up the barn. In order to try and remember which way is 'up', it'll be 'blue-in-view' and 'brown-is-out' ie. blue operating well side and brown - well - the outer side. What I haven't yet got are hundreds of Wago type connectors to join the droppers to the bus - I am NOT soldering on the underside if I can possibly avoid it.

 

I have a picture for you today just showing the mods to the point - nothing special:

 

 

^ The lighting angle is a bit iffy, but you can see the dimple has been removed off the end of the bar which is at its maximum throw. When thrown in the other direction, the end of the bar nestles under the rail (as seen at the other end).

 

I seem to be motoring again and I hope I won't lose momentum!

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Philip