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[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a full list of the codes?

!958 codes for Fish Vans (listed under 'Freight Rolling Stock' in the telegraphic code book but some were actually NPCCS vehicles) -

 

Fish Van 18ft wheelbase -     BLOATER

Fish Van wb 12 ft or under - FISH

Fish Van  6 wheeled -             XFISH

Fish Van  wb 14' - 15' -           LAFISH

Fish Van 4 wheeled insulated -   INSFISH

Fish Van 6 wheeled insulated -   INSIXFISH

 

[keefer]

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a full list of the codes?

A lot of the codes were just the standard coaching stock designations e.g. BSK, TSO, RU etc. but the NPCCS ones seem to depend on when & where they were used.

ScR 1964:

 

Note the Diesel cars would be the 79xxx Swindon Inter-City cars for Edinburgh-Glasgow.

LMR 1969:

Note the lack of Fish vans but other types are mentioned inc. MILTA (milk tank), Mk2 Pullman and RIR (new one on me!)

ER 1970:

 

Note Pullman coaches not mentioned, these are simply referred to as '1st Kitchen' etc. in the entry for the relevant service. TCV are the Newton-Chambers Car Carriers.

 

Courtesy Robert Carroll https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/g/main

Edited June 29 by keefer

[montyburns56]

Webb Tender Crewe 1963 by Peter Sedge

 

 

[russ p]

5 hours ago, keefer said:

A lot of the codes were just the standard coaching stock designations e.g. BSK, TSO, RU etc. but the NPCCS ones seem to depend on when & where they were used.

ScR 1964:

 

Note the Diesel cars would be the 79xxx Swindon Inter-City cars for Edinburgh-Glasgow.

LMR 1969:

Note the lack of Fish vans but other types are mentioned inc. MILTA (milk tank), Mk2 Pullman and RIR (new one on me!)

ER 1970:

 

Note Pullman coaches not mentioned, these are simply referred to as '1st Kitchen' etc. in the entry for the relevant service. TCV are the Newton-Chambers Car Carriers.

 

Courtesy Robert Carroll https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/g/main

 

Are the diesel codes not for all DMUs? Seems to be too many types for just the EG 79xxx

[keefer]

41 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Are the diesel codes not for all DMUs? Seems to be too many types for just the EG 79xxx

I thought it odd that DMUs were in there so just assumed the E-G express/mainline units - though thinking about it, maybe also the Swindon Cross-Country (cl.120)?

These covered Aberdeen-Inverness services and some had buffet cars.

I never thought to have a look through the PTM, I'll have to do that now!😊

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, keefer said:

I thought it odd that DMUs were in there so just assumed the E-G express/mainline units - though thinking about it, maybe also the Swindon Cross-Country (cl.120)?

These covered Aberdeen-Inverness services and some had buffet cars.

I never thought to have a look through the PTM, I'll have to do that now!😊

No doubt covered all DMU vehicles - after all MBS and MS were commonly used codes for DMU vehicles.  The various codes appear, albeit in the full wording, in the 1961/62 ABC Combined Volume so were clearly widely established by then and in fact were used in the WR DMU staff instructional hand book published in 1957. 

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

No doubt covered all DMU vehicles - after all MBS and MS were commonly used codes for DMU vehicles.  The various codes appear, albeit in the full wording, in the 1961/62 ABC Combined Volume so were clearly widely established by then and in fact were used in the WR DMU staff instructional hand book published in 1957. 

 

I never understood why 'D' for 'Driving' seemed not to have been an official prefix, though widely used in enthusiast circles.

 

CJI.

[hexagon789]

51 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I never understood why 'D' for 'Driving' seemed not to have been an official prefix, though widely used in enthusiast circles.

 

CJI.

I believe that originally, because all motor vehicles until the TransPennine sets had cabs, the "D" was considered superfluous for driving motor cars.

 

When there was a bit of revision to the codes in the 1980s, it seems it was decided "D" should always be included regardless of the fact that all the new DMUs appearing during the course of the 80s had an engine on every vehicle and no trailer cars.

[John Isherwood]

3 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

I believe that originally, because all motor vehicles until the TransPennine sets had cabs, the "D" was considered superfluous for driving motor cars.

 

When there was a bit of revision to the codes in the 1980s, it seems it was decided "D" should always be included regardless of the fact that all the new DMUs appearing during the course of the 80s had an engine on every vehicle and no trailer cars.

 

By that reasoning, did all T-prefix (Trailer) vehicles have cabs - and the D-prefix was therefore considered superfluous?

 

CJI.

[hexagon789]

6 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

By that reasoning, did all T-prefix (Trailer) vehicles have cabs - and the D-prefix was therefore considered superfluous?

 

CJI.

I thought "D" was included if it was a Driving Trailer?

[John Isherwood]

Just now, hexagon789 said:

I thought "D" was included if it was a Driving Trailer?

 

Well - it's not in the above-posted official list, amongt the (DIESEL)s.

 

CJI.

[hexagon789]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Well - it's not in the above-posted official list, amongt the (DIESEL)s.

 

CJI.

That's a CWN though, not the DMU diagram book.

 

I assume the CWN book only includes E&G diesel services and possibly Aberdeen/Inverness and Glasgow/Ayr/Stranraer.

 

I think in 1964 only the Gloucester 100s and Cravens 105s in Scotland had driving trailers, which would've been used only on local services and not included in the CWN.

Edited June 30 by hexagon789

[John Isherwood]

2 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

That's a CWN though, not the DMU diagram book.

 

I assume the CWN book only includes E&G diesel services and possibly Aberdeen/Inverness and Glasgow/Ayr/Stranraer.

 

I think in 1964 only the Gloucester 100s and Cravens 105s in Scotland had driving trailers, which would've been used only on local services and not included in the CWN.

 

Well - perhaps I am expecting too much - but I would have expected a common notation throughout BR.

 

After all, railway enthusiasts / Ian Allan managed it!

 

CJI.

[hexagon789]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Well - perhaps I am expecting too much - but I would have expected a common notation throughout BR.

 

After all, railway enthusiasts / Ian Allan managed it!

 

CJI.

See SO vs TSO for an example of inconsistent terminology between regions! ;)

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I never understood why 'D' for 'Driving' seemed not to have been an official prefix, though widely used in enthusiast circles.

 

CJI.

But D was used (for Driving) - right from the early  days of Modernisation era units.  Hence there were, for example DTS - Driving Trailer Second vehicles which had a driving cab at one end but didn't have any engines.  However on the Western - or rather the part where I was working at one time - we usually referred to them as DETs (Drive End Trailers).

 

So  'D' = 'Driving' was used to distinguish non-powered DMU vehicles with driving cabs from powered vehicles. 

[John Isherwood]

59 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

But there were common notations for similar types of DMU vehicles  so I can't see where you're coming from on that.  If you have an old ABC look in there and you will see them albeit set out in full length wording.

 

The Swindon built original Inter City sets did have different notations between WR and ScR allocated vehicles but that was to cover different vehicle types, common notations were used on similar vehicles.

 

BTW the terms SO and TSO were used on the WR to differentiate between slightly different types of Open Seconds

 

Just to clarify, I was referring SOLELY to the above-posted vehicle type list that include certain DMU vehicles.

 

CJI.

[montyburns56]

At first I thought that the crosses signified some kind of medical use, but now I'm wondering if it just means that they are for scrapping?

 

Midland Railway 6 wheel van, Dundee 1963 by Peter Sedge

 

 

LNWR 6 wheel coach Llandudno Junction 1963

 

 

[John Isherwood]

11 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

At first I thought that the crosses signified some kind of medical use, but now I'm wondering if it just means that they are for scrapping?

 

Midland Railway 6 wheel van, Dundee 1963 by Peter Sedge

 

 

LNWR 6 wheel coach Llandudno Junction 1963

 

 

 

The crosses were commonplace on LMR breakdown vehicles - could they indicate which vehicles carried first aid equipment?

 

CJI.

[Metr0Land]

Interesting to see the overhead electric warning flash on the side of 2nd vehicle. It doesn't look like you can climb up to the roof from there, though you can from the end. Prototype for everything?

[The Stationmaster]

On 01/07/2024 at 12:32, cctransuk said:

 

Just to clarify, I was referring SOLELY to the above-posted vehicle type list that include certain DMU vehicles.

 

CJI.

And I was replying to this post of yours, see below, in respect of common notation of codes throughout BR - simply to point out that such a thing did exist.

As had already been pointed out the item posted by Keefer had come from a CWN and clearly states it is the codes 'used herein' - i.e. it is not a complete list of all codes in use but only of those used in that publication.

 

On 30/06/2024 at 18:23, cctransuk said:

 

Well - perhaps I am expecting too much - but I would have expected a common notation throughout BR.

 

After all, railway enthusiasts / Ian Allan managed it!

 

CJI.

 

[John Isherwood]

15 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

And I was replying to this post of yours, see below, in respect of common notation of codes throughout BR - simply to point out that such a thing did exist.

As had already been pointed out the item posted by Keefer had come from a CWN and clearly states it is the codes 'used herein' - i.e. it is not a complete list of all codes in use but only of those used in that publication.

 

 

 

Accepted - my point was simply that there appears not to have been a unified vehicle abbreviation code throughout BR.

 

...... though much of what BR did defies explanation!

 

CJI.

[Andy Kirkham]

 

Is that a D600?

 

Edited July 2 by Andy Kirkham

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Accepted - my point was simply that there appears not to have been a unified vehicle abbreviation code throughout BR.

 

...... though much of what BR did defies explanation!

 

CJI.

Especially the ScRegion which was even more different from the rest than even the WR or the three constituent parts lingering on with their own different ways of doing things on the Southern Region.  

 

But lots of basic stuff was standardised although as I've said elsewhere in the past the local 'lingua franca' for exactly the same thing varied even within one BR Region let alone between different Regions.

[Darius43]

5 minutes ago, Andy Kirkham said:

 

Is that a D600?

 

Looks like it - back in the days when drinking and driving was commonplace.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[The Stationmaster]

6 minutes ago, Andy Kirkham said:

 

Is that a D600?

 

It has a strong hint of one of them about it!  I'm a bit more interested in where it is as the scene has a hint of familiarity although i can't place it.