Helston Revisited

[Andy Keane]

Just reading my copy of the new Siphon book which I finally got today. Page 45 shows a six-wheeler that it says was dedicated to the Helston to Sheffield rabbit traffic - who knew! Still not sure if alive or dead though. Apparently it had a dedicated roof board saying it was for this traffic as well. It will be a nice modelling challenge.

Edited September 5 by Andy Keane

[37Oban]

10 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Just reading my copy of the new Siphon book which I finally got today. Page 45 shows a six-wheeler that it says was dedicated to the Helston to Sheffield rabbit traffic - who knew! Still not sure if alive or dead though.

Hi,

the rabbits would be dead.  Much easier to handle than live bunnies!  The would have their internal parts removed but the skins left on, then two tied together to make a couple.  Wholesale rabbits were always sold as couples.  At least they were here in North Lincolnshire.  My father worked for a butcher in Brigg before WW2 and they sent rabbits, especially "harvest" rabbits, to Sheffield.  He didn't say how they were transported, but I assume if there were enough from the various butchers then a van would be used otherwise they'd be loaded into the trains brake compartment.

 

Roja

[Andy Keane]

5 hours ago, 37Oban said:

Hi,

the rabbits would be dead.  Much easier to handle than live bunnies!  The would have their internal parts removed but the skins left on, then two tied together to make a couple.  Wholesale rabbits were always sold as couples.  At least they were here in North Lincolnshire.  My father worked for a butcher in Brigg before WW2 and they sent rabbits, especially "harvest" rabbits, to Sheffield.  He didn't say how they were transported, but I assume if there were enough from the various butchers then a van would be used otherwise they'd be loaded into the trains brake compartment.

 

Roja

Roja - many thanks for this. I did think this likely - just as siphons were also used for sausages and bacon transport but not pigs. We used to buy hares when we lived in Oxford and the butcher there used to skin them for us. I wonder how many pairs of rabbits a six wheel siphon would hold?  I think they were sent in baskets, presumably to keep them cool. Cannot think they ever hung them up as you would not get many onboard that way. What really amazes me is that this dedicated van existed at all - there must have been significant local warrens to justify it.

Edited September 5 by Andy Keane

[Pete Haitch]

🐰Trelowarren Estate? Did they at some point supply just skins for glovers?

[37Oban]

2 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Roja - many thanks for this. I did think this likely - just as siphons were also used for sausages and bacon transport but not pigs. We used to buy hares when we lived in Oxford and the butcher there used to skin them for us. I wonder how many pairs of rabbits a six wheel siphon would hold?  I think they were sent in baskets, presumably to keep them cool. Cannot think they hung them up as you would not get many onboard that way. What really amazes me is that this dedicated van existed at all - there must have been significant local warrens to justify it.

Hi,

 

I presume it would baskets too, especially if they were going in the guards compartment.  I know my dad used to take them to the station either in a van, if there were a significant number, or on one of those delivery bikes with the baskets at the front!

 

There are, or were, a couple of warrens in the area, but the local farms provided most of the rabbits, especially at harvest time.  Rabbits would gather in the centre of the field as the wheat, barley or whatever was cut.  A section would be left uncut in the centre of the field, nets then spread around it and the rabbits flushed into the nets!  By doing it this way young, tender rabbits could separated from the older ones.  We can still get harvest rabbits here, but I don't think they are netted now, although I may be wrong!

 

As an aside, my dad used to tell the tale of a woman who bought a rabbit, then returned to the shop a couple of days later complaining it was tough, no matter what she did with it!  This mystified my dad so he asked her what she did with it.  Imagine his surprise when she said it had a tough skin on it that she couldn't cut!  That's when the light dawned!  She spent an hour or more plucking the fur from it!  She didn't realise that rabbits had to be skinned!

 

Roja

 

 

[Harlequin]

We know that wicker baskets were used for rabbit traffic. There are a few photos on the net and in books, including this one, mentioned further up-thread:

 

 

[Andy Keane]

On 05/12/2022 at 10:07, Harlequin said:

Wabbits being loaded at Kingsbwidge:

 

Is that a low roofed Siphon with two sets of doors?

 

Given the info in the siphon book and looking more closely I think it must be an O4 with three sets of doors, with just two sets being open. But no sign of the roof board describing the routing at this stage. I wonder if it is number 1792 though.

Edited September 5 by Andy Keane

[Pete Haitch]

9 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

What really amazes me is that this dedicated van existed at all - there must have been significant local warrens to justify it.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/105996574  Middle Top - Gadolphin Warren. Management of warren possibly abandoned early 20th Century but that will not necessarily have made the rabbits less prolific.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/105996889 Top Right - Trelowarren Warren. Believe the estate was rabbit producing well into 20th Century. At one stage could have been paunching and skinning. Speculation - perhaps a wartime measure – meat to eat and skins for glovemaking.

[Andy Keane]

I am guessing from the photo that maybe 30 baskets could go into one O4 so guessing 10 per basket that’s 300 in a single van, maybe more?

[Andy Keane]

I have two E140 B sets on order and am hoping to see them before Christmas. Then they will need renumbering for Helston. They will come as 6457 and 6459 and hopefully then become 6445 / 6446 / 6461 / 6464 in fairly short order. However one thing I am less sure on is the lettering on the ends. Should they simply say "HELSTON" or perhaps "HELSTON BRANCH" or even "HELSTON No. 1" and "HELSTON No. 2", or even some combination of these. It is slightly complicated by the fact that the two sets were allocated at different times, with the second set being sent there some years after the first. I have not been able to find any photos of their ends. Would @Miss Prism or anyone else have any advice on what to apply to these coaches?

thanks

Andy

[Miss Prism]

Afaik, the branding was 'HELSTON NO1' and 'HELSTON NO2' (with the initial caps in a slightly larger size, as per normal end annotation style, but I suspect the Helston annotation was confined to a single line).

 

I don't know when B-set branding was introduced or how long it lasted.

 

[Pete Haitch]

On 30/08/2024 at 09:15, Andy Keane said:

 

Thanks for this - really useful background info. Are we happy that these would definitely have been in standard cattle wagons?

 

 

 Hi, this 1912 picture show cattle trucks at Drump Road yard Redruth with the bacon factory in the background.  It is detail from a picture here on the Cornish Memory website. I was wondering whether the six wagons by the pens on the cattle dock were cattle trucks that had been sheeted over for use transporting pigs.  Pete

[Andy Keane]

50 minutes ago, Pete Haitch said:

 

 Hi, this 1912 picture show cattle trucks at Drump Road yard Redruth with the bacon factory in the background.  It is detail from a picture here on the Cornish Memory website. I was wondering whether the six wagons by the pens on the cattle dock were cattle trucks that had been sheeted over for use transporting pigs.  Pete

That’s a really interesting picture. The rear six wagons seem to be completely enclosed so with no ventilation so I would have thought not for livestock? Also their roof lines are higher than the cattle trucks nearer the camera. Mystifying.

Thinking again maybe they are early X1 Mica non-refrigerated meat vans?

Edited September 6 by Andy Keane

[Pete Haitch]

The Russell wagon books gives the official drawing heights for different GW Mex including: 11' 1 1/4", 11' 3 1/8", 11' 9 3/4".  Atkins, Beard et al give the same figures.  If the back 6  are sheeted Mex, then the openings at the bottom of the sides should give adequate ventilation especially in colder seasons when they could get excessively chilled.  I note there are no signs of lime wash on those wagons and straw bedding on the dock - all of which would make them better for pigs.  I'm sure the GWR will have had rules for the transport of pigs and someone on here will have the details as well as giving positive ID on the wagons. I'm using a D&S DS503 W2 white metal kit to represent the cattle wagon closest to the camera and deciding how to model straw bedding.

 

I'm assuming that you've seen the pictures of GWR busses, postal wagon etc at Helston Station, that are in the Helston Museum collection. If not, they also are on the https://www.cornishmemory.com/ website (I just search 'railway' and become distracted). You could have prototype correct adverts on the station approach fence, and the correct reg no if you have a GWR bus.

  

 

Edited September 6 by Pete Haitch

[magmouse]

I think the further six wagons may be Micas - we are the limit of the resolution of the picture, but they seem to have the smooth sides (inside framing) and minimal roof overhang characteristic of Micas. Micas would make sense for taking away the products of the bacon factory.

 

Nick.

[Andy Keane]

3 hours ago, Pete Haitch said:

The Russell wagon books gives the official drawing heights for different GW Mex including: 11' 1 1/4", 11' 3 1/8", 11' 9 3/4".  Atkins, Beard et al give the same figures.  If the back 6  are sheeted Mex, then the openings at the bottom of the sides should give adequate ventilation especially in colder seasons when they could get excessively chilled.  I note there are no signs of lime wash on those wagons and straw bedding on the dock - all of which would make them better for pigs.  I'm sure the GWR will have had rules for the transport of pigs and someone on here will have the details as well as giving positive ID on the wagons. I'm using a D&S DS503 W2 white metal kit to represent the cattle wagon closest to the camera and deciding how to model straw bedding.

 

I'm assuming that you've seen the pictures of GWR busses, postal wagon etc at Helston Station, that are in the Helston Museum collection. If not, they also are on the https://www.cornishmemory.com/ website (I just search 'railway' and become distracted). You could have prototype correct adverts on the station approach fence, and the correct reg no if you have a GWR bus.

  

 

I don’t think they are sheeted Mex. no sign of ropes and no creases in the coverings. I still think they are early Micas.

 

And yes, I have indeed been to the Museum and spent several hours with their archive. I decided some time ago not to overly worry about things that change rapidly like adverts so the ones I have used are merely typical. I do plan a GWR bus but will use the Peco kit rather than the much earlier Daimler ones that were initially us3d at Helston.

Edited September 6 by Andy Keane

[Pete Haitch]

The Mica would be 8" higher than the Mex W2 so that would fit.

[BWsTrains]

5 hours ago, Pete Haitch said:

I'm assuming that you've seen the pictures of GWR busses, postal wagon etc at Helston Station, that are in the Helston Museum collection. If not, they also are on the https://www.cornishmemory.com/ website (I just search 'railway' and become distracted). You could have prototype correct adverts on the station approach fence, and the correct reg no if you have a GWR bus.

  

 

Bit of a grind to find them (p13/14 of 21 on searching "Railway") but worthwhile. Good Helstion station shots including one with an early Siphon and fascinating one of unloading a Postal Truck, no OHS there!

 

Now Andy just needs to add the Station Railway Arch!

[Andy Keane]

10 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

Now Andy just needs to add the Station Railway Arch!

Unfortunately that Arch appears to have been erected in Godolphin Road and so lies beyond the reach of my model. There are other similar arches elsewhere in the Cornwall collection - it seems to be a thing they do/did down there.

[Pete Haitch]

12 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

Now Andy just needs to add the Station Railway Arch!

That will be right after he has got real water running down the culvert and through the kennels on Gadolphin Road - he must have a little bit of fibreglass he could use on that side of the Road

[Pete Haitch]

15 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

I don’t think they are sheeted Mex. no sign of ropes and no creases in the coverings. I still think they are early Micas.

These pics are detail from background of 2 different 'Official Picture' both appearing to have been taken on same occasion. The cattle wagons ( I need to try and identify what type now) are in the main yard on the down side whilst the lower picture is in the private siding off the up main line by the bacon factory with Micas? in it.  Also sat in the yard at Redruth was a 'Trimsaran Anthracite' open - so another PO wagon that reached the western shires of Cornwall.

 

Edited September 7 by Pete Haitch
Smaller picture file

[Andy Keane]

4 hours ago, Pete Haitch said:

That will be right after he has got real water running down the culvert and through the kennels on Gadolphin Road - he must have a little bit of fibreglass he could use on that side of the Road

From what I can tell the culvert was / is on the south side of Godolphin Road and luckily enough my model stops a little short of that - phew!

[Andy Keane]

3 hours ago, Pete Haitch said:

Also sat in the yard at Redruth was a 'Trimsaran Anthracite' open - so another PO wagon that reached the western shires of Cornwall.

Indeed - a few private owner trucks are always fun. I am always wondering what I can get away with for Helston which is a bit more remote even than Redruth.

[Andy Keane]

The latest addition to my horse-drawn fleet is this etched brass Victoria - there is a photo of one of these outside Helston station pre first world-war. It was a bit tricky to solder up but in the end I got there with some burnt fingers. Getting paint to stick to the edges, even after a Q8 etch primer coat is proving harder. I am also wondering about colour schemes for the (folded down) hood, leather seats, footplates and wheels. I plan a grey gelding to pull it. Maybe an austere black for everything (matt on the seats and footplates) and dark grey on the hood would be best, but I am tempted by red wheel spokes!

Andy

[Andy Keane]

On 31/08/2024 at 16:49, Pete Haitch said:

I seem to have hijacked this thread so will limit myself to a couple more posts and then give it a rest. I really like how the things you are doing to your layout at this stage are not only giving a really strong sense of time and place, but also purpose.

 

I've finished the list of livestock for my model so also post it here to round off the ones previously published.

 

In my faded and jaded memory, I don’t recall many sheep in the southern part of Kerrier, but more in those northern parts that used to be part of Penwith. Looking at pictures of Helston market and elsewhere, sheep barely appear. Spring born lambs would have competed with cows producing milk for cream, butter etc; and also early crops.  The autumn born lambs mentioned below could have fitted in with the cropping pattern and assisted with soil fertility provided the adult sheep had otherwise unproductive land to graze in summer.

 

Non-the-less, those sheep that there were would have been shorn and something would have happened to the wool.  Liskeard once had a moderately good wool trade but this was largely seen-off by the industrial revolution. Cornwall didn’t have rivers with the flow and force to power mills in the way the Pennine and Peak District ones could. A rump of hand spinning and knitting staggered on and has today become part of a lively craft scene.

 

I suspect that one day in the year a few empty trucks were shunted into the yard at Helston and those farmers involved would turn up with horse drawn waggons loaded with woolsacks to be transferred, sheeted, roped and despatched. Fleeces from the longwool breeds were popular with serge makers and therefore contributed to the boys (no girls then) in blue, and Khaki, being well turned out. Woolsacks were different and considerably larger than those used for coal etc.

 

So along with the Sheffield Rabbit, Chippenham Pig and Elephant Special; may I suggest… the Spring Serge. Add these to all the other seasonal and special workings found at Helston and your signal log is going to be an interesting read!

 

Sheep 

Cornish Longwool Like the black cattle and black pig, the various west country longwool sheep have mostly become so interbred over the last hundred years that they are now largely recognised as a single breed – the Devon and Cornwall Longwool. I intend to used models from Scale 3D and Langley for these.

 

Greyface Dartmoor I’m going to take the modelling equivalent to dagging shears to the above models and also use them to represent this breed.

 

Devon Closewool These are a naturally polled breed (they don’t grow horns). I was thinking about trying a sheep flocking kit on some Nock 15749 sheep to represent these.

 

Dorset Horn I suspect that your visits to Melplash were a little after my era, but you will almost certainly have come across some Dorset Horns including some shown by distant cousins of mine.  Casting my mind back many decades, there was a story that there had been a flock of Dorset Horn sheep kept somewhere in the west of the Duchy, producing autumn born lambs that would grow-on well due to the mild climate and be finished in time to meet the Easter demand for fresh lamb from the posh hotels in London and Paris. It is possible that these were not pure Dorset Horn but cross-bred ewes that had been produced by putting a Dorset tup to local breeds, and which therefore carried the genes to lamb out of season.  I haven’t been able to find any photographic evidence from that period as the relevant pictures I have seen could as equally be an Exmoor Horn as a Dorset Horn. A Portland ram would have done the same job but I can’t imagine there would have been more than a handful in existence, and in 4mm scale one is not going to tell the difference anyway. If I go for a late autumn setting for my layout, then I will have a lineside field with ewes and lambs being folded across a catch-crop of turnips.

 

Cross Breeds In all the above breeds, females not suitable for breeding replacements, or related to the main breed tup, may have been put to a ram from a breed known to give meatier lambs. This will be my excuse to include models I like including ones of a ‘down’ type, Roman nosed, blue faced etc.

 

Pete

 

Pete, I have a field to the west of station road that in real life had quite a slope on it, although in my model it is not so severe. What do you think to putting some long wool sheep in it? Rather than just more cattle.