Helston Revisited

[Andy Keane]

10 hours ago, Gilbert said:

Andy..on the subject of paints - can I ask what make of paints your are using for your building stone shades?

Chris

Chris, for light and dark stone I use the Phoenix enamels.

[Gilbert]

1 minute ago, Andy Keane said:

Chris, for light and dark stone I use the Phoenix enamels.

Thanks - I assumed you did Andy - I need to get hold of  some.

I'm currently using the Railmatch versions and I think I prefer the finish you have TBH

Chris

[Andy Keane]

10 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

 

Very nice model, whose kit is it, or by your own hands perchance?

 

From the GWR plans and drawings which I've seen, the manure pit typically was taller and enclosed on three sides, with an opening on the fourth as per the Timbertracks 7mm model of Westbury. The opening might be to the side or facing forwards.

 

 

I drew up the plans then I got Jakub at Lcut Creative to cut the parts, except for the roof vent which I 3D printed.

The manure pit is only open at the side because it’s the board edge.

 

Maybe there should be a bit of extra walling to stop the manure leaning against the stable block side wall?

Edited July 2 by Andy Keane

[Andy Keane]

1 minute ago, Gilbert said:

Thanks - I assumed you did Andy - I need to get hold of  some.

I'm currently using the Railmatch versions and I think I prefer the finish you have TBH

Chris

They do a really broad range and I find them all very effective, from rusts, through loco and wagon colours to sleepers etc.

[Gilbert]

1 minute ago, Andy Keane said:

They do a really broad range and I find them all very effective, from rusts, through loco and wagon colours to sleepers etc.

Thanks

I already use their weathering colours (esecially for track) but haven't seen the GWR colours anywhere when I've been out and about.

C

[Andy Keane]

47 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Thanks

I already use their weathering colours (esecially for track) but haven't seen the GWR colours anywhere when I've been out and about.

C

I order mine direct from the Phoenix web site.

Andy

[Harlequin]

I tried both Railmatch and Phoenix/Precision Light/Dark Stone paints on a job recently. I had the colour swatches from the "GWR structure colours" book to hand and I decided that the Phoenix paints were a much closer match - and closer to what I felt was right.

 

Railmatch was relegated to undercoat.

 

Edited July 2 by Harlequin

[57xx]

11 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I tried both Railmatch and Phoenix/Precision Light/Dark Stone paints on a job recently. I had the colour swatches from the "GWR structure colours" book to hand and I decided that the Phoenix paints were a much closer match - and closer to what I felt was right.

 

 

There's been a few threads on GWR stone before. The general consensus was that the Phoenix paints were the best match, certainly a view I take too.

[BWsTrains]

2 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

There's been a few threads on GWR stone before. The general consensus was that the Phoenix paints were the best match, certainly a view I take too.

 

I'm confused here.

 

The usually reliable GWR.ORG.UK on livery colours and Stephen Williams in "GWR Branchline modelling"  both suggest a GWR Dark Stone with a distinct reddish hue. In fact Williams observes ".. that particularly the Dark Stone was a salmon brown colour, not unlike the upper panels in LSWR coaches".  At another point in the chapter he cross references the GWR Stone shades being used at Pendon and preserved items seen at Didcot Railway Centre both of which he personally examined.

 

As the paints were, according to Williams, mixed on site from Iron Oxide and White Lead, a red hue for GWR no3 would have been the logical outcome, as Red Iron Oxide would be the most likely cheap bulk pigment being used.

 

To my mind, none of the above fits with this:

 

Hence on Upper Hembury I went for shades formulated on the guidance of the above references and which gives outcomes like those seen on the much admired @checkrail's Stoke Courtney.

 

 

Edited July 2 by BWsTrains

[St Enodoc]

Many years ago a colleague at Brighton MRC suggested Humbrol 62 for Dark Stone and 84 for Light Stone. I can't comment on the accuracy of those as I use chocolate and cream...

[Harlequin]

9 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

 

I'm confused here.

 

The usually reliable GWR.ORG.UK on livery colours and Stephen Williams in "GWR Branchline modelling"  both suggest a GWR Dark Stone with a distinct reddish hue. In fact Williams observes ".. that particularly the Dark Stone was a salmon brown colour, not unlike the upper panels in LSWR coaches".  At another point in the chapter he cross references the GWR Stone shades being used at Pendon and preserved items seen at Didcot Railway Centre both of which he personally examined.

 

As the paints were, according to Williams, mixed on site from Iron Oxide and White Lead, a red hue for GWR no3 would have been the logical outcome, as Red Iron Oxide would be the most likely cheap bulk pigment being used.

 

To my mind, none of the above fits with this:

 

Hence on Upper Hembury I went for shades formulated on the guidance of the above references and which gives outcomes like those seen on the much admired @checkrail's Stoke Courtney.

 

 

The Phoenix paints represent the colours as freshly painted but the GWR paints were not as colour-fast as modern synthetic paints so they changed shade over time. That means they need to be toned down, weathered - unless you want a freshly painted look.

 

The structure colours book, derived from the minutes of the GWR paint committee, says that by 1910 the GWR were buying ready mixed paints BUT at least one division had stocks of pigments for making paints the old way for many years after that date. This may have led to some variation in the standard colours, well into the 20th century.

 

We have to be wary of personal perceptions and descriptions of colours. It’s all very subjective and can be affected by eye conditions.

 

Edited July 3 by Harlequin

[Andy Keane]

I like the SVR and am happy to try and get that sort of effect. To my eyes the Phoenix paints match this quite well:
http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/images/kidder-70_600px.jpg

Edited July 3 by Andy Keane

[Tim Dubya]

As modeller's we need to take into account that colour also scales.

 

guide to scale colour.pdf

 

https://www.aidan-campbell.co.uk/

 

 

Edited July 3 by Tim Dubya
Coffee

[checkrail]

When building Stoke Courtenay I experimented with both the Precision and Railmatch versions of GWR 'stone'.  In the end I went with Railmatch as some half-forgotten ancient memories, whether from old photos or long-ago childhood holidays in Devon and Cornwall, persuaded me that the dark stone should have a bit of a salmon pink tone to it.  I've occasionally thought since that the Precision shades might have been better but, as others have rightly said there are a lot of variables involved - paint quality and fading, individual depot mixing and of course one's own eyesight and colour perception.  So, with a fair bit of subjectivity in play I guess it ends up as personal preference.

John C.

[57xx]

23 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

 

I'm confused here.

 

The usually reliable GWR.ORG.UK on livery colours and Stephen Williams in "GWR Branchline modelling"  both suggest a GWR Dark Stone with a distinct reddish hue. In fact Williams observes ".. that particularly the Dark Stone was a salmon brown colour, not unlike the upper panels in LSWR coaches".  At another point in the chapter he cross references the GWR Stone shades being used at Pendon and preserved items seen at Didcot Railway Centre both of which he personally examined.

 

As the paints were, according to Williams, mixed on site from Iron Oxide and White Lead, a red hue for GWR no3 would have been the logical outcome, as Red Iron Oxide would be the most likely cheap bulk pigment being used.

 

To my mind, none of the above fits with this:

 

Hence on Upper Hembury I went for shades formulated on the guidance of the above references and which gives outcomes like those seen on the much admired @checkrail's Stoke Courtney.

 

 

 

From the Precision site:

Quote

It should be noted that all of our GWR colours were matched to a privately preserved set of paint panels from Swindon Works. These not only had the colours, but the dates used and the names for each colour. Our understanding is that the panels had been signed by the CME for the period

 

[BWsTrains]

So we appear to have two irreconcilable Expert views, viz. Pendon and Didcot Railway Centre preserved items in the Blue corner - Swindon Works CME in the Red. Ding!

 

I know of one highly reputable modeller who has also sighted the Didcot reference and has "placed his money" on Blue. You pays your money, you make your choice.... it seems.

 

 

 

[MJI]

3 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

So we appear to have two irreconcilable Expert views, viz. Pendon and Didcot Railway Centre preserved items in the Blue corner - Swindon Works CME in the Red. Ding!

 

I know of one highly reputable modeller who has also sighted the Didcot reference and has "placed his money" on Blue. You pays your money, you make your choice.... it seems.

 

 

 

I tend to follow the bloke who used to have a paint factory near my old secondary school.

 

Lets just say I have never bought Precision Paints retail, always from factory, or mail order from the new people.

 

Oh and I have seen SOME of the sources.

Edited July 4 by MJI

[BWsTrains]

5 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

So we appear to have two irreconcilable Expert views, viz. Pendon and Didcot Railway Centre preserved items in the Blue corner - Swindon Works CME in the Red. Ding!

 

I know of one highly reputable modeller who has also sighted the Didcot reference and has "placed his money" on Blue. You pays your money, you make your choice.... it seems.

 

 

 

 

I should have added in my earlier post that GWR.ORG.UK provides this guidance below for Dark stone ( #3).

The base hue (no white / black) being RGB (252, 56,3). Rather nearer to Red (256,0,0) than Orange (256, 128, 0) as can be seen top right in the RGB diagram. 

 

 

 

[t-b-g]

I don't get too fussy about building colours. There will be the colour of the paint when it is newly applied and the colour when it is just about to be repainted. They won't be the same colours and as long as you are somewhere on that scale of fading, it would be almost impossible for anybody to say that the model is wrong.

 

The railway buildings on Blakeney were in green and cream livery but the green was almost pale turquoise on the model. That is what LNER green faded to and there is evidence to prove it.

 

So I would suggest that a bolder, more vivid colour is more like a freshly painted building and a paler one would represent the same colour after a period of being out in the elements.

[Andy Keane]

Given fading and also the dirt that floated around from wet weather spray, to steam, to smoke, I also tend to waft some weathering spray over the top anyway - often some track dirt or similar, mainly to grade the colour vertically, being dirtier lower down etc. Sometime I waft some pale stuff around too as I want a bit of variation from building to building.

[KeithMacdonald]

On 03/07/2024 at 10:21, checkrail said:

childhood holidays in Devon and Cornwall, persuaded me that the dark stone should have a bit of a salmon pink tone to it.

 

I completely agree that some stone used by GWR in Devon and Cornwall does have a salmon pink tone to it. But - just to complicate things - anyone who grew up in Devon & Cornwall, or familiar with the geology, might remember that even with just the granites, there are several different kinds of granite with different colour tones. Some granites are a dismal grey tone. Then there are all the other kinds of stone which might be used in station buildings. Limestone, sandstone, etc.

 

I forget where I saw it on t'interweb, but there is (or was) a list of the various quarries in Devon and Cornwall used by GWR and Southern. That, with colour pictures of the typical quarried products, might help with some of these prototypical puzzlers.

Edited July 4 by KeithMacdonald
Typo fixes

[Harlequin]

19 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

I completely agree that some stone used by GWR in Devon and Cornwall does have a salmon pink tone to it. But - just to complicate things - anyone who grew up in Devon & Cornwall, or familiar with the geology, might remember that even with just the granites, there are several different kinds of granite with different colour tones. Some granites are a dismal grey tone. Then there are all the other kinds of stone which might be used in station buildings. Limestone, sandstone, etc.

 

I forget where I saw it on t'interweb, but there is (or was) a list of the various quarries in Devon and Cornwall used by GWR and Southern. That, with colour pictures of the typical quarried products, might help with some of these prototypical puzzlers.

 

We're not talking about the colour of stone, Keith. We're talking about the GWR's "Standard Tint" paint colours, three of which were called "Light Stone", "Medium Stone" and "Dark Stone".

 

Edited July 4 by Harlequin

[Andy Keane]

I am working on a pair of goods yard gates but its not proving that easy:

Because of the featherboard structure getting the waterslide to bed down is not going too well. I am currently trying to flood them with matt varnish (which is why they look a bit wet right now). Any better ideas would be welcome.

I am also not completely sure what sort of wording would have been used in reality, as I have been unable to find any photos of such gates for rural stations.

Andy

[Gilbert]

4 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

I am working on a pair of goods yard gates but its not proving that easy:

Because of the featherboard structure getting the waterslide to bed down is not going too well. I am currently trying to flood them with matt varnish (which is why they look a bit wet right now). Any better ideas would be welcome.

I am also not completely sure what sort of wording would have been used in reality, as I have been unable to find any photos of such gates for rural stations.

Andy

Microsol/Microset may work for you Andy or a decal setting solution from Vallejo or similar

Chris

Edited July 4 by Gilbert

[Andy Keane]

2 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Microsol/Microset may work for you Andy or a decal setting solution from Vallejo or similar

Chris

I put it on with microsol and the flood is their micro flat. Of course the photo makes it looks much worse than in real life.

Andy