Helston Revisited

[KeithMacdonald]

7 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Well Helston had this regular bus service with two buses and a dedicated bus garage.

 

Ah, sorry, I didn't notice the garage earlier. In which case, can I withdraw my suggestion? A solitary tanker wagon (sitting all alone no-mates in a little siding) would be far too-easy a target for a bit of Cornish Piracy. Isn't it more likely that the bus garage had its own fuel tanks on its own premises?

[Andy Keane]

 

7 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

tanks on its own premises?

That is exactly the point. The bus garage is next to the goods shed in the station yard.

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

No idea I am afraid - I’ve not seen photos of the stables, never mind the petrol area…. However, I know a man who might know…

 

@The Stationmaster Mike, do you remember the petrol tanks at Henley, next to the stables? Thanks.

Simple answer is 'no' alas.  But I definitely can't remember a grounded tank car tank anywhere in the station area and in any case a tank would be alot bigger than 500 gallons.

 

So I suspect it was a fairly nondescript rectangular steel tank.   And it doesn't show up in any of my (very few) goods yard photos.   How it was reilled is an interesting question - as it would be at Helston -because in both cases a fairly long pipe would have been needed from a tank wagon to the tank plus I never saw a tank car at Henley (but that is obviously later than the Helston layout.  I wonder if Peggy is still around?  She was one of the Goods Clerks at Henley and the last time I spoke to Norman we were wondering about how many people who had worked back in the past at Henley were still alive and he was pretty sure that she was.   -But that's a couple of years ago and she'd be well over 80 by now

 

I wonder if the fuel was delivered in drums and not by tank wagon?  It would be just as easy to transfer the fuel from 'oil' drums as from a tank car and they could be placed right next to the storage tank.  I really don't know but the lack of tank cars in photos might be a hint?

[Neal Ball]

7 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

There is this image of Henley:

https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW022752

Neal do you have a full res copy?

it’s one of four they have of the station from the air.

Andy

Thanks Andy, yes I have copies of the group of photos.

 

You can just make out the back siding which stops just short of the goods shed. There is then a line of trees running at 90 degrees. The Petrol tank and the stables are hidden from view in the trees. There is then a footpath that leads to the stationmasters house.

 

All of which is in my operating well, so won’t feature in my model! I would still like to model the house, but that’s a different story!

 

 

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Simple answer is 'no' alas.  But I definitely can't remember a grounded tank car tank anywhere in the station area and in any case a tank would be alot bigger than 500 gallons.

 

So I suspect it was a fairly nondescript rectangular steel tank.   And it doesn't show up in any of my (very few) goods yard photos.   How it was reilled is an interesting question - as it would be at Helston -because in both cases a fairly long pipe would have been needed from a tank wagon to the tank plus I never saw a tank car at Henley (but that is obviously later than the Helston layout.  I wonder if Peggy is still around?  She was one of the Goods Clerks at Henley and the last time I spoke to Norman we were wondering about how many people who had worked back in the past at Henley were still alive and he was pretty sure that she was.   -But that's a couple of years ago and she'd be well over 80 by now

 

I wonder if the fuel was delivered in drums and not by tank wagon?  It would be just as easy to transfer the fuel from 'oil' drums as from a tank car and they could be placed right next to the storage tank.  I really don't know but the lack of tank cars in photos might be a hint?

Thanks anyway Mike.

 

I wonder if an email to the Great Western Trust at Didcot might unearth some information for you Andy.

 

Good luck in your search.

[Andy Keane]

I have reread Jenkins book and he says “Until about 1928 a large petrol storage tank had been situated at the southern end of the embankment”. I had forgotten he said it was down there. However that whole are was rebuilt when the retaining wall was added to increase the loading area to the side of the track. So maybe this is why Jenkins says "until about 1928". It was probably removed during the rebuilding. Certainly there is no evidence of it in the 1948 aerial photos. This begs the question what did they do after 1928 for petrol? I doubt with a very active motor garage on site they gave up having a tank. But its not obvious on the aerial photos for 1948. Maybe by then it had gone and this leaves me free to guess! I am betting either beside the garage so adjacent to the tracks or perhaps more likely, at the rear of the yard up against the boundary fence where there are a number of indistinct blobs in the aerial photos. And I think Mike may well be onto something when he says filled from drums rather than a tank wagon. I don't recall any photos showing petrol tank wagons on the Helston branch either.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Andy Keane

[Nick C]

Maybe the later tank was underground? Looking at photos of 20's filling stations, none appear to have a visible tank, which suggests they were buried by then as they are now.

[MrWolf]

By around 1930 the regulations regarding the bulk storage of motor spirit had changed and the storage tanks would be cylindrical and buried underground, fitted with a vent pipe and flame trap.

Electric pumps came in around the same time, but these were almost exclusively used on retail sales until the early 1950s.

Premises pumping fuel not for resale would have had the traditional hand cranked pump right until the end.

Hope that's of some use.

[Andy Keane]

Thanks guys - that would explain why the tank "disappeared" in 1928 - so no need to model it at all - just a vent pipe added to the side of the garage somewhere.

Though it is still not obvious how they filled such a beast - there would need to be some sort of filler pipe of the sort we see today on filling stations I guess? But would they have simply hand pumped it in from drums or trailed a pipe from a rail tanker?

Interestingly the whole garage had to be rebuilt in around 1905 when the placed was leveled by a motor fuel explosion which also destroyed a bus, but fortunately no people.

So clearly health and safety has helped a bit in places.

Andy

[Graham T]

You could have the valves etc. for filling the tank underneath a metal cover set into the ground somewhere close to the bus garage; simple to model it that way.

 

[The Stationmaster]

I don't know who would have been responsible for teh construction of Road Motor depot failities although I'm guessing that it was probably the Road Motor Engineer's Dept once it was well established.  At one time it might have been under the M&EE ( a possibility and you never. know) so it might be orth trying to get hold ofa list of drawings held at Chippenham to see if there's anything there.

 

But be warned - their cataloguing is a far from helpfully organised 'system'  and t means a lot of plodding through to find what you might not find anyway.

[MrWolf]

I meant to include this picture earlier. Below it is a bronze cap and neck to which the tanker hose would be connected.

 

Picture: Nigel Mikura 

[5BarVT]

Must be a responsible company: they knew not to split infinitives.

Paul.

[Andy Keane]

I have just gotten back the 3D prints for the array of buildings belonging to the Gweek Co. Ltd to go with the wooden parts I am also building.  They are photographed on a bit of ply as the extreme end leg is longer than the rest to allow for the fall in the ground there. 

Track side:

Road side:

Entrance with sign board above:

Close up showing deliberately non flat roof and walls:

And finally doors for the garage based on the photos from Didcot kindly taken by @Mike_Walker:

All  need a visit to the paint shop etc.

[Andy Keane]

Overcome by fits of madness I am now the owner of two Hornby Stars: Knight of St Patrick and Lode Star (the Swindon Museum version). Can anyone tell me why St Patrick has red/black/red lining rather than the yellow-orange/black/yellow-orange of Lode Star and as described in all the normal places? Looking at the various web sites and book I have I cannot find a trace of those red lines? See this eBay sale for what I mean:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404296750573?hash=item5e21f6d5ed:g:cPsAAOSwI~tkZ58T&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8Pht5eOeOFHK17LLWjJzdv%2FUXmnUIcIsRifFXRSTO0YVUn3RbioYPMVRce9qZenPCdUxU3HvDhzqgRJlYPqtpWUw0X%2FsjCZ02lEpXOYZEr0Jl1eEKbAOeG4nJrWu%2Bj1F1s4D1LIBxjIV7PS5qnbew%2BKIQ9B%2BgkC1FW9bsSDPOZ%2BKgdBZ4GJ2RihiP1Vj74mIbXSTHAuiJMzq5s9wjAJ%2FWOda%2BvdEBGPtPgFY6zBkU%2BxlN3Wl7P1NMY3qmsoAiCmtP3HzsUCd635tw%2FYfnfo4tCKFNGB7xfnbwbmIfsFXsx9QPIJxQ1jjVR7w9Ucw24Ipzw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7K-1Iy0Yg

Or is this just a poor colour match by Hornby?

Andy

Edited July 29, 2023 by Andy Keane

[Harlequin]

58 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Overcome by fits of madness I am now the owner of two Hornby Stars: Knight of St Patrick and Lode Star (the Swindon Museum version). Can anyone tell me why St Patrick has red/black/red lining rather than the yellow-orange/black/yellow-orange of Lode Star and as described in all the normal places? Looking at the various web sites and book I have I cannot find a trace of those red lines? See this eBay sale for what I mean:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404296750573?hash=item5e21f6d5ed:g:cPsAAOSwI~tkZ58T&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8Pht5eOeOFHK17LLWjJzdv%2FUXmnUIcIsRifFXRSTO0YVUn3RbioYPMVRce9qZenPCdUxU3HvDhzqgRJlYPqtpWUw0X%2FsjCZ02lEpXOYZEr0Jl1eEKbAOeG4nJrWu%2Bj1F1s4D1LIBxjIV7PS5qnbew%2BKIQ9B%2BgkC1FW9bsSDPOZ%2BKgdBZ4GJ2RihiP1Vj74mIbXSTHAuiJMzq5s9wjAJ%2FWOda%2BvdEBGPtPgFY6zBkU%2BxlN3Wl7P1NMY3qmsoAiCmtP3HzsUCd635tw%2FYfnfo4tCKFNGB7xfnbwbmIfsFXsx9QPIJxQ1jjVR7w9Ucw24Ipzw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7K-1Iy0Yg

Or is this just a poor colour match by Hornby?

Andy

I think it's just a bad rendition of post-1945 Orange Chrome.

 

[Andy Keane]

On 27/07/2023 at 20:56, Andy Keane said:

the 3D prints for the array of buildings belonging to the Gweek Co. Ltd

I am now painting the Gweek sheds. My problem is I have no idea if the sides of these were painted or bare galvanised in reality. Clearly GWR sheds got the light stone treatment but what about private sheds on railway land? Does anyone have any views? maybe @The Stationmaster can help?

[Andy Keane]

Can anyone suggest a good supplier of the sort of industrial bits and bobs that might have been scattered around inside a 1930s bus garage and / or a 1930s timber shed?

I need to populate these buildings with something appropriate beyond a bus and timber!

Andy

[checkrail]

48 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Can anyone suggest a good supplier of the sort of industrial bits and bobs that might have been s

Dart Castings?  Langley Miniature Models? 

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, Andy Keane said:

Can anyone suggest a good supplier of the sort of industrial bits and bobs that might have been scattered around inside a 1930s bus garage and / or a 1930s timber shed?

I need to populate these buildings with something appropriate beyond a bus and timber!

Andy

 

25 minutes ago, checkrail said:

Dart Castings?  Langley Miniature Models? 

 

I would add Modelu to the list - they have workbenches etc. Plus the yard bits and pieces - brake pads / oil cans etc.

 

Plus Scale model scenery have a "Loco roster" type board. Other bits in their range might be a bit modern.

[5BarVT]

West Hill Wagon Works have lots of depot stuff where you might find something, but you would need to search carefully as most of it is far too modern.

Paul.

[Andy Keane]

2 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

West Hill Wagon Works have lots of depot stuff where you might find something, but you would need to search carefully as most of it is far too modern.

Paul.

Paul

Yes they have some interesting stuff but as you say mostly modern - seems a bit of a gap in the market to me but I guess sourcing the shapes of old bits of kit might be an issue - maybe a trip to an old transport museum with a scanner would be a business opportunity for one of these firms. I can find quite a bit for engine sheds but much less in 4mm for 1930s garages and warehouses.

I looked at their saw bench but I doubt a 1930's timber yard would have had an electric bench of the sort WHWW have.

Andy

[Andy Keane]

Things are slowly improving at Helston. I soon need to take the plunge and decide what material to lay down for the yard surface. My current favourite idea is to lay spray glue and sprinkle very fine wood / coal - ash / dust into the glue but an alternative is textured paint. I plan to try this out on some test boards at the club one evening. At the moment Helston yard is just cork sheet primed with pale mud coloured emulsion. I have been focussing on getting the levels correct with 1mm deep indents that each building sits in. The buildings for the station area are all nearly finished and the 6 ton crane is well into development. And if you look closely you can see both point rodding and signal wires!

[Graham T]

That looks great Andy - all the colours are nicely muted and blend together.  I used some Tamiya textured paint, for my platform surface if I remember rightly, and got on well with it.  Might have used it on some of the roads too; if you search my thread for Tamiya it should show up.

 

For my yard I've used Das, chinchilla dust, and polyfilla in various combinations.

 

[Andy Keane]

10 minutes ago, Graham T said:

That looks great Andy - all the colours are nicely muted and blend together.  I used some Tamiya textured paint, for my platform surface if I remember rightly, and got on well with it.  Might have used it on some of the roads too; if you search my thread for Tamiya it should show up.

 

For my yard I've used Das, chinchilla dust, and polyfilla in various combinations.

 

Thanks - I have some of the Tamiya paint and I like it but find on a large area its hard to avoid ridges when spreading it. thats why I think the glue and sprinkle may be better which is I think what you did. I am going to aim for a slight darker colour for my yard than you have but for no real reason than I think I prefer that. I have been poring over various colour photos from the late 50s and early 60s but of course we have nothing from the 30s to really go on. Peco do tubs of various powders and I plan to try and make a mix from those plus maybe some real wood / coal ash. I will report back on my test boards in due course.

Andy

[Graham T]

I think I used a piece of plasticard as a leveller for the textured paint on the platform, to avoid the ridges that you mention.  Obviously best to test on some scrap first!