Helston Revisited

[Graham T]

I seem to recall seeing salt being used as a mask for painting rust onto mineral wagons - perhaps by @NHY 581?

 

[NHY 581]

3 minutes ago, Graham T said:

I seem to recall seeing salt being used as a mask for painting rust onto mineral wagons - perhaps by @NHY 581?

 

 

 

Hi Graham, 

 

Nope, not me. I'm aware of the technique but not used it. I must get more adventurous and try things ! 

 

Pretty certain Martyn Welch has used it though. 

 

Rob

[MrWolf]

He also used the Maskol trick over rust coloured paint before tiocoating. Once you tear off the patches of Maskol it's leaves flaky edges in the topcoat as though it's lifting with the rust.

[BachelorBoy]

8 hours ago, Graham T said:

I seem to recall seeing salt being used as a mask for painting rust onto mineral wagons - perhaps by @NHY 581?

 

 

People who model cars, tanks, planes, etc use it a lot. Hairspray too.

 

 

[NHY 581]

In a similar vein, there are also techniques involved either hair spray or proper "chipping fluid". 

 

Both are well known to military modellers, particularly those working in 1/35th or 1/48th scales (or even 1/16th now ) from whom there is much we can learn. 

 

I mean......what is not to like here...

 

 

 

 

( Apologies for disappearing off at a tangent )

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

[Andy Keane]

Thanks everyone for all these ideas - I will do some reading and then try a few things out.

Andy

[Gilbert]

Hi Andy -late to the party I'm afraid - I would say this wouldn't I - do you have any reference photos or have I missed them earlier in the thread?

Chris H

[Andy Keane]

 

19 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

do you have any reference photos or have I missed them earlier in the thread

Chris

the main issue with corrugated sheds is the stripy nature of the weathering and how to get that.

So there is a lovely photo here of exactly what I want for the weighbridge and small shed: http://www.fairfordbranch.co.uk/South_Leigh.htm , though it is two-tone grey while I think it should be all over light-stone for 1930s GWR.

Then this is from Didcot taken by @Mike_Walker which I have used to model my road motor garage doors (not sure it is rust though) but its a lovely mix of colours.

Andy

[Gilbert]

This was a background shed on Pixash Lane - I simply prime with Halfords Oxide then put on a rust coat with variations rather than a single colour, let it dry the put some black on - possiby with a sponge - then wiped off and generally messed about - pretty simple but effective. Som pigments may have been added to highlight detail.

I have used chipping (and hair spray but feel that with corrugated surfaces the simple method works just as well. Do some test pieces.

This is Bakewell Street and is done with Carrs weathering powders applied with a sponge and then some brush work. I'm not a fan of Carrs for small items such as rolling stock but they work well on large buildings - especially in 7mm as here.

[Gilbert]

More from Pixash Lane - FWIW the heavily weathered upper storey on the shed uses an American pre-printed paper product.

[Andy Keane]

Chris

Thanks for these - I guess there is no obvious answer but I like the idea of dragging paint along the lines of the corrugation.

This is a nice image to try and replicate:

https://www.alamy.com/old-rusty-corrugated-steel-shed-image362979353.html?imageid=5202D6B7-94F6-4BD1-A48A-872E1D932ADE&p=363763&pn=1&searchId=bd68c9d51b7e295b237e6e519db0fa75&searchtype=0

I think much harder to do though?

Andy

[Gilbert]

Just now, Andy Keane said:

Chris

Thanks for these - I guess there is no obvious answer but I like the idea of dragging paint along the lines of the corrugation.

This is a nice image to try and replicate:

https://www.alamy.com/old-rusty-corrugated-steel-shed-image362979353.html?imageid=5202D6B7-94F6-4BD1-A48A-872E1D932ADE&p=363763&pn=1&searchId=bd68c9d51b7e295b237e6e519db0fa75&searchtype=0

I think much harder to do though?

Andy

I think you might be surprised how easily it can be done - have a play!

[Andy Keane]

This is a start on corrugated roofs. Because I put some ridges into the 3D print of the main garage roof they come out in the painting :-)

this is following @Gilbert's advice to go with layers and sponging rather than trying to peel a top coat back from salt, hairspray or masking fluid.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Andy Keane

[Gilbert]

One further thing I said to Andy in a message was to make sure you check how the buildings look in place on the layout as they progress.

Chris H

[Andy Keane]

Perhaps the final structure Helston needs is a petrol tank for the motor buses that lived in the garage and served the Lizard. I am not at all sure what to do about this. There is of course the old Ratio/Peco 530 Oil Tanks kit ( https://peco-uk.com/products/oil-tanks-2 ) that I could use one of, but I am at a bit of a loss as to decide where to put it. Clearly the fuel would have come in by rail in a tanker wagon and been pumped into the storage tank. But then the motor buses would have needed to get close enough to fill their fuel tanks from it. All the while noting how flammable petrol is, especially around working steam locos. I can find no trace of such practices anywhere and wondered if anyone knew of how this might be done. The actual garage sat to the right (south) of the goods shed right alongside the goods shed siding so perhaps the tank would have been end on between the buildings there (the red rectangle in the lower plan below - the two huts representing the garage). Then fuel could have gone in at the siding end and out at the yard end?

Andy

[Neal Ball]

8 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Perhaps the final structure Helston needs is a petrol tank for the motor buses that lived in the garage and served the Lizard. I am not at all sure what to do about this. There is of course the old Ratio/Peco 530 Oil Tanks kit ( https://peco-uk.com/products/oil-tanks-2 ) that I could use one of, but I am at a bit of a loss as to decide where to put it. Clearly the fuel would have come in by rail in a tanker wagon and been pumped into the storage tank. But then the motor buses would have needed to get close enough to fill their fuel tanks from it. All the while noting how flammable petrol is, especially around working steam locos. I can find no trace of such practices anywhere and wondered if anyone knew of how this might be done. The actual garage sat to the right (south) of the goods shed right alongside the goods shed siding so perhaps the tank would have been end on between the buildings there (the red rectangle in the lower plan below - the two huts representing the garage). Then fuel could have gone in at the siding end and out at the yard end?

Andy

 

In our modern H & S world, are we thinking about where to store Petrol with our 2023 heads on?

 

It's not unusual to see Cordon gas tanks at the end of a yard road, ready to fill the tanks of a carriage or Restaurant car. That would be "town gas" which I also think was flammable. 

 

At Henley-on-Thames, from 1934 two stalls of the stable block* were taken over as a motor vehicle garage and a 500 gallon petrol tank was positioned outside. 

 

I therefore suspect that a simple petrol pump (and associated storage tank) would have been postioned at a suitable location. Or maybe they simply "filled up" at the local garage and put it "on account" 

 

*Presumably horses were still stabled and were simply the other side of a wall!

[Andy Keane]

48 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

*Presumably horses were still stabled and were simply the other side of a wall!

At Helston the horses enjoyed a stable block on the hill overlooking the yard so at least they were not at risk. But I do know there was a tank as it is referred to in some articles - its just size, shape and location I will have to guess at!

Andy

[Neal Ball]

7 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

At Helston the horses enjoyed a stable block on the hill overlooking the yard so at least they were not at risk. But I do know there was a tank as it is referred to in some articles - its just size, shape and location I will have to guess at!

Andy

 

Interestingly the text says that petrol was provided from 1934 - this is the 1920's track plan. Incidentally the 10 ton crane was replaced with a 6 ton version in the early 1930's 😎

 

Does the plan from Henley help?

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, Neal Ball said:

It's not unusual to see Cordon gas tanks at the end of a yard road, ready to fill the tanks of a carriage or Restaurant car. That would be "town gas" which I also think was flammable. 

 

There's a good example of that on another nice little GWR branch line (Lambourn)

 

Quote

The gas lighting in these vehicles was replenished from a Cordon (gas tank wagon) which was normally kept in the yard. ... Left of the water pump housing is another picture of what must be the most-photographed gas tank wagon ever.

 

https://www.lambournvalleyrailway.info/lambourn-3.html

 

Hot coals, cinders, sparks, flammable gas, and people habitually smoking cigarettes. Probably with petrol being sloshed around as well. Different times! 😀

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Does the plan from Henley help?

Neal - yes that does help - thanks - it at least gives me a plan view size. I don't suppose you know if these were cylindrical tanks or slab sided ones?

Andy

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

There's a good example of that on another nice little GWR branch line (Lambourn)

 

 

https://www.lambournvalleyrailway.info/lambourn-3.html

 

Hot coals, cinders, sparks, flammable gas, and people habitually smoking cigarettes. Probably with petrol being sloshed around as well. Different times! 😀

Yes, cordon gas tankers just sitting there (I have two kits to make up at some point) - but no fixed petrol tanks that I can see? Surely somebody must have a photo of a GWR yard with a fixed petrol tank lurking in it somewhere?

Andy

[Neal Ball]

10 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Neal - yes that does help - thanks - it at least gives me a plan view size. I don't suppose you know if these were cylindrical tanks or slab sided ones?

Andy

No idea I am afraid - I’ve not seen photos of the stables, never mind the petrol area…. However, I know a man who might know…

 

@The Stationmaster Mike, do you remember the petrol tanks at Henley, next to the stables? Thanks.

[KeithMacdonald]

4 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Clearly the fuel would have come in by rail in a tanker wagon and been pumped into the storage tank.

 

Here's an idle thought ... I agree, clearly that would have been the norm for bigger towns or busier locations where the demand justified the capital cost of installing storage tanks. But would that have been the norm for little towns, or at the ends of branch lines? Or are we just as likely to find a solitary tanker wagon, sitting all alone (no mates) in a little siding?

 

[Andy Keane]

5 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Here's an idle thought ... I agree, clearly that would have been the norm for bigger towns or busier locations where the demand justified the capital cost of installing storage tanks. But would that have been the norm for little towns, or at the ends of branch lines? Or are we just as likely to find a solitary tanker wagon, sitting all alone (no mates) in a little siding?

 

Well Helston had this regular bus service with two buses and a dedicated bus garage. Also some descriptions of the place actually mention the tank without saying where or what it was. So I am pretty sure I need to add one but in the end I will have to guess the location. But it would at least be nice to have a photo of a pre-war GWR petrol storage tank!

[Andy Keane]

There is this image of Henley:

https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EPW022752

Neal do you have a full res copy?

it’s one of four they have of the station from the air.

Andy