Helston Revisited

[Andy Keane]

With much help from @Mikkel, laser cutting by LCUT and some very weak photos of the real thing at Helston, I have made my version of the stable block for my model. It is to a very standard GWR pattern, although in reality it had three windows not two. But if I built mine to that full scale size it would hang over the back of my baseboard, so rather than try some split building with the missing bit on the back scene I have gone down to two windows, and some standard GWR blocks were indeed that size. While not up to the standard of @Mikkel's mega models of stables I am quite pleased how it has turned out.

I have just to decide if the top half of the stable door should hang inwards or outwards.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Andy Keane

[Neal Ball]

1 minute ago, Andy Keane said:

With much help from @Mikkel, laser cutting by LCUT and some very weak photos of the real thing at Helston, I have made my version of the stable block for my model. It is to a very standard GWR pattern, although in reality it had three windows not two. But if I built mine to that full scale size it would hang over the back of my baseboard, so rather than try some split building with the missing bit on the back scene I have gone down to two windows, and some standard GWR blocks were indeed that size. While not up to the standard of @Mikkel's mega models of stables I am quite pleased how it has turned out.

 

Thats very nice Andy, is a complete kit from Lcut?

[Graham T]

Looks very good indeed Andy!

 

[Andy Keane]

36 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Thats very nice Andy, is a complete kit from Lcut?

I built a set of CAD drawings from stuff @Mikkel sent me and from those generated the files for Jakub at Lcut to laser out. A set of parts is under £20 from him. I got the roof vent 3D printed in resin. The little tap is a spare from a Ratio cattle dock kit. The gutter and down pipes are also Ratio.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Andy Keane

[Mikkel]

Hi Andy, that is superb. Apart frlm the build I really like the orange shade of the brick colour, mine is a little too purple I think. The tap has come out very well too, a small but distinctive feature.

 

Good question about the top door. I looked in my archive, only one of my photos of GWR stable blocks give a clue, showing a door opening inwards. But it is a derelict late example, so the door could be rebuilt. If I was going to mess around with big horses indoors I would prefer the door opening outwards. But I don't know.

 

[Andy Keane]

25 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

If I was going to mess around with big horses indoors I would prefer the door opening outwards.

The lady wife says she is pretty sure it would open out and would actually be held back to the wall by a hook of some kind - so I think I will do that - it means I have to paint both sides of that bit first though.

regards and many thanks for your help along the way

Andy

[Simond]

All the loose boxes I’ve any recollection of have outward opening doors/gates, but the buildings may have inward opening ones, I guess.  I’ve seen a few buildings with sliding doors too, but they’re probably more modern.

 

from the BHS website:

 

Stable doors

Stable doors should open outwards or slide across and must be able to fasten securely shut. Depending on the design, a stable door can be fastened securely with both a top and bottom bolt (known as a kick bolt). These fittings are needed to help ensure the horse doesn’t escape or get a leg stuck between the door and the frame. Stable doors should be a minimum of 1.25m (4ft) wide. The height of the door and roof should allow the horse or pony to look out with their head comfortably over the door to be able to express natural behaviours maintained by visual stimulation.

 

a Google image search for “best practice stable design plans uk” gives lots of suggestions, all the doors open outwards.

 

I don’t suppose much has changed over the last century or so, but the GWR were always a little individual…

Edited June 8, 2023 by Simond

[Andy Keane]

I have also been working on the signalling. With help from @The Stationmaster and @5BarVT I have managed to build and test an Arduino that simulates the action of the Helston locking frame circa 1930. This is driven by simple on/off switches and then directly sends instructions to my layout using the NCE data-bus to operate points and signals. This allows nice things like linking pairs of point motors to a single instruction using NCE macros. I next need to build the actual lever frame. My starting point is the DCC Concepts working lever. My frame will have 18 of these so this is the beginnings of the frame:

I plan to sit these inside a box so the box lid represents the floor of the signalbox. These will get painted to match the beautiful signal diagram that @Harlequin has made for me.

Because I don't have real mechanical locking there is no way to actually prevent the wrong lever being pulled so when that happens the Arduino will protest by sounding a buzzer until the offending lever is put back where it should be. It will also refuse to forward the command of course.

 

One thing I am considering is adding a small red LED set in the floor in front of each lever that will light up if a lever should not have been moved so it is clear what is wrong. But maybe that would spoil the look, even if helpful to the operator?

 

I am also thinking of adding a pushbutton to the box that will sound the shunting klaxon. And maybe a bell and bellpush so that somebody operating the fiddle yard can communicate via bell codes. The Arduino could of course do both these things quite easily.

 

Andy

[Graham T]

I must admit that I do like those DCC Concepts levers, but they’re a tad pricey if I remember rightly?

 

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, Graham T said:

I must admit that I do like those DCC Concepts levers, but they’re a tad pricey if I remember rightly?

 

Indeed, but compared to a sound fitted loco not impossibly so.

[Pannier Tank]

1 hour ago, Andy Keane said:

One thing I am considering is adding a small red LED set in the floor in front of each lever that will light up if a lever should not have been moved so it is clear what is wrong. But maybe that would spoil the look, even if helpful to the operator?

 

I like the look of your Levers, very nice.

 

For my Arduino based Mortonhampstead Signal box I currently use Toggle Switches and have a Bi-colour LED which shows Red if a Lever is locked and also Flashes Red when the Lever is is an illegal move. When a Lever is reversed  (legal move) the LED changes to Blue.

 

[Andy Keane]

4 minutes ago, Pannier Tank said:

 

I like the look of your Levers, very nice.

 

For my Arduino based Mortonhampstead Signal box I currently use Toggle Switches and have a Bi-colour LED which shows Red if a Lever is locked and also Flashes Red when the Lever is is an illegal move. When a Lever is reversed  (legal move) the LED changes to Blue.

 

Sounds nice - do you have some photos you could share?

 

[Andy Keane]

35 minutes ago, Pannier Tank said:

 

I like the look of your Levers, very nice.

 

For my Arduino based Mortonhampstead Signal box I currently use Toggle Switches and have a Bi-colour LED which shows Red if a Lever is locked and also Flashes Red when the Lever is is an illegal move. When a Lever is reversed  (legal move) the LED changes to Blue.

 

Also if you have multi coloured leds do you not run out of pins on your Arduino?

[Pannier Tank]

There is some information here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/171854-passim-interlocking-project/#comment-4815774 and a 

 (very) short video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9k7PS-KxTo of the Lever Frame, but with separate Red & Blue LEDS. I am bit  preoccupied at the moment with some re-configuring our bungalow so all modelling has been put on hold. I'll post some more images when I get round to it!

 

I'm using an Arduino Mega which has something like 63 I/o's so plenty of spare pins. I use 3 x 12 I/o's (12 Levers, 12 RED LEDs and 12 Blue LEDS).

 

I'm tempted to follow your path with the cobalt-s levers!

 

[Pannier Tank]

P.S.

 

When I have the time I'm re-writing the Arduino Code for a pair of Tokenless Block Instruments,

 

[Andy Keane]

24 minutes ago, Pannier Tank said:

There is some information here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/171854-passim-interlocking-project/#comment-4815774 and a 

 (very) short video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9k7PS-KxTo of the Lever Frame, but with separate Red & Blue LEDS. I am bit  preoccupied at the moment with some re-configuring our bungalow so all modelling has been put on hold. I'll post some more images when I get round to it!

 

I'm using an Arduino Mega which has something like 63 I/o's so plenty of spare pins. I use 3 x 12 I/o's (12 Levers, 12 RED LEDs and 12 Blue LEDS).

 

I'm tempted to follow your path with the cobalt-s levers!

 

My issue is I have 18 levers so would need 54 pins and I also need 3 for the NCE data,  one for the buzzer, one for the klaxon and one for the reset switch so it’s not so simple for my application.

The cobalt levers are very nice.

[5BarVT]

5 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

One thing I am considering is adding a small red LED set in the floor in front of each lever that will light up if a lever should not have been moved so it is clear what is wrong. But maybe that would spoil the look, even if helpful to the operator?

As long as the error buzzes as soon as the lever is moved I don’t think you will need the LEDs.  It’s the lever you just operated!

Paul.

P.S. From personal experience of just such a set up (with much simpler locking than Helston)

1. Don’t make the error buzzer sound for too long;

2. Make the volume adjustable, preferably with Off an option.

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

I have also been working on the signalling. With help from @The Stationmaster and @5BarVT I have managed to build and test an Arduino that simulates the action of the Helston locking frame circa 1930. This is driven by simple on/off switches and then directly sends instructions to my layout using the NCE data-bus to operate points and signals. This allows nice things like linking pairs of point motors to a single instruction using NCE macros. I next need to build the actual lever frame. My starting point is the DCC Concepts working lever. My frame will have 18 of these so this is the beginnings of the frame:

I plan to sit these inside a box so the box lid represents the floor of the signalbox. These will get painted to match the beautiful signal diagram that @Harlequin has made for me.

Because I don't have real mechanical locking there is no way to actually prevent the wrong lever being pulled so when that happens the Arduino will protest by sounding a buzzer until the offending lever is put back where it should be. It will also refuse to forward the command of course.

 

One thing I am considering is adding a small red LED set in the floor in front of each lever that will light up if a lever should not have been moved so it is clear what is wrong. But maybe that would spoil the look, even if helpful to the operator?

 

I am also thinking of adding a pushbutton to the box that will sound the shunting klaxon. And maybe a bell and bellpush so that somebody operating the fiddle yard can communicate via bell codes. The Arduino could of course do both these things quite easily.

 

Andy

Now that is interesting.

[Pannier Tank]

10 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

My issue is I have 18 levers so would need 54 pins and I also need 3 for the NCE data,  one for the buzzer, one for the klaxon and one for the reset switch so it’s not so simple for my application.

 

One possible solution is to add extra I/O's to the MEGA  https://forum.arduino.cc/t/how-pssible-adding-more-i-o-ports-to-arduino-due/965658/6 although as you have a buzzer, you know immediately which lever to put back. With my toggle switches it's easy to pull several levers before realising a mistake. Although in reality with only 12 levers mistake don't often happen, if at all. It's all good fun trying different things with the Arduino.

[Andy Keane]

9 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

As long as the error buzzes as soon as the lever is moved I don’t think you will need the LEDs.  It’s the lever you just operated!

Paul.

P.S. From personal experience of just such a set up (with much simpler locking than Helston)

1. Don’t make the error buzzer sound for too long;

2. Make the volume adjustable, preferably with Off an option.

Paul I think you are right about this, it’s just that most of the other interlocked panel stuff I have seen does have some form of LED indication, but those are mostly switch based and maybe people get to the point of moving more than one at a time? With proper levers that is probably not going to happen though. I will do some experiments on volume and time because, as you are no doubt thinking, it could easily become annoying / intrusive. When I get that far I will post a video.

Andy

[Andy Keane]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Now that is interesting.

Very happy to share / help anyone else set this sort of thing up.

Andy

[Andy Keane]

I am now laying out the box that will house my signal levers and the controlling Arduino. But I want add a bell to it so I can have real bell codes at some point in the future. Can anyone advise on where one get the parts needed to make such a thing. I know I can get bare brass bells from the clockmakers suppliers but I am not sure I want to faff around building the solenoid system to drive a pinger and wondered what others might have done. Quite a few layouts seem to have such things but where have they come from?

Andy

[Harlequin]

1 hour ago, Andy Keane said:

I am now laying out the box that will house my signal levers and the controlling Arduino. But I want add a bell to it so I can have real bell codes at some point in the future. Can anyone advise on where one get the parts needed to make such a thing. I know I can get bare brass bells from the clockmakers suppliers but I am not sure I want to faff around building the solenoid system to drive a pinger and wondered what others might have done. Quite a few layouts seem to have such things but where have they come from?

Andy

 

How about the real thing?

https://junctionrailwayana.com/all-railwayana-items/ra-5761-g-w-r-early-split-case-e-t-s-electric-token-system-block-bell/

 

(They also have a couple of GWR bell boxes with tappers.)

 

They are very simple electrically and a 9V battery is enough to operate the solenoid.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Harlequin

[Andy Keane]

4 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

How about the real thing?

https://junctionrailwayana.com/all-railwayana-items/ra-5761-g-w-r-early-split-case-e-t-s-electric-token-system-block-bell/

 

(They also have a couple of GWR bell boxes with tappers.)

 

They are very simple electrically and a simple 9V battery is enough to operate the solenoid.

 

Wow! that would be rather epic. I was thinking something much smaller - if I am not careful I will end up with a shelf of all the instruments Helston would have had.

I shall try and resist.

[The Stationmaster]

On 12/06/2023 at 20:36, Harlequin said:

 

How about the real thing?

https://junctionrailwayana.com/all-railwayana-items/ra-5761-g-w-r-early-split-case-e-t-s-electric-token-system-block-bell/

 

(They also have a couple of GWR bell boxes with tappers.)

 

They are very simple electrically and a 9V battery is enough to operate the solenoid.

 

Wow, I paid BR 7/6 each for mine!!