Abandoned rails in the road.....(or elsewhere...)

[Ian Morgan]

12 hours ago, 33C said:

Amazing. Any history about their use?

 

This model of Burnham-on-Sea in 2mmFS by the late Dennis Brownlee shows track leading into the sea (ignore the DMU, we were having a bit of fun).

Its main purpose was to launch the lifeboat that was kept in a shed on a siding at the station.

 

[John Isherwood]

1 minute ago, Ian Morgan said:

 

This model of Burnham-on-Sea in 2mmFS by the late Dennis Brownlee shows track leading into the sea (ignore the DMU, we were having a bit of fun).

Its main purpose was to launch the lifeboat that was kept in a shed on a siding at the station.

 

 

The rails shown in the OP are narrow gauge, though; parallel to, and descending to, the beach.

 

CJI.

[Ben B]

2 hours ago, Barry O said:

Scrape off the debris.. get the trams back from Crich.. add a big battery.. ooh err..  our tram system returns!

 

Baz

 

I'm sorry, you seem to be confusing Leeds Council for a dynamic organisation. You're missing the preliminary steps of;

 

Spend 40 years talking about it, decide to then spend a decade thinking about trolley buses, and spend 60 million quid on tea and biscuits for planning meetings... then the missing final step on your list, "sod it, buy a few more diesel buses" :)

[big jim]

1 hour ago, Ian Morgan said:

 

Its main purpose was to launch the lifeboat that was kept in a shed on a siding at the station.

 

In wondered why they went right out to see on the old maps, I couldn’t work out if there was an old pier or something that had been removed but that explains it 

 

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

The rails shown in the OP are narrow gauge, though; parallel to, and descending to, the beach.

 

CJI.

 

the NG rails I photographed were right at the south end of the esplanade about 1/2 mile south of the main railway, the area has been redeveloped over the years by the looks of it so I wonder if there might have been an old boat yard there at some point, it just looks like a little line to get small supplies down from the road toward the little marina thing on the tidal inlet 

[Michael Edge]

3 hours ago, Barry O said:

A lot of the tram lines in Leeds are still in situ.. it shows how much carp has been chucked on the roads since the late 1950s...  

 

Highway engineers generally unaware of them (some aren't aware of what they are mistaking them for "road strengtheners"). Scrape off the debris.. get the trams back from Crich.. add a big battery.. ooh err..  our tram system returns!

 

Baz

This was seriously suggested in Sheffield when the new tram system was being planned - dig up West Street and use the existing buried track. The trams do run there now but this suggestion was not taken up....

[John Isherwood]

43 minutes ago, big jim said:

In wondered why they went right out to see on the old maps, I couldn’t work out if there was an old pier or something that had been removed but that explains it.

 

There was a pier, and the S&DJR operated steamers across the Bristol Channel to Wales.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/wVHKQpkTXgRpATgT9

 

CJI.

Edited February 21 by cctransuk

[whart57]

I haven't been able to find the picture but in Amsterdam it has at various times been possible to hire a vintage tram set for occasions like weddings, the existence of the museum tramline in the south of the city with a connecting line to the main network makes that possible. That does mean that trams occasionally use tracks not in regular use. On a number of occasions this has required the chiselling out of tarmac from the rails while the bride patiently waits in the tram car.

[Ben B]

1 hour ago, whart57 said:

 That does mean that trams occasionally use tracks not in regular use. On a number of occasions this has required the chiselling out of tarmac from the rails 

 

There was an impressive display on the Middleton in Leeds last year at their diesel gala... the Balm Road branch is very rarely used anyway thanks to the ungated level crossings (in suburbia too!).  But I gather it hadn't been used for quite a while even up to the gala; the first train was accompanied by clouds of dust and rubble as it finished clearing all the detritus out of the flangeways. There was even a vol out with a strimmer cutting back the adjoining hedges between trains :)

 

[whart57]

Found it

 

 

Interesting are the ad hoc tools being used, The guy on the right is using the rod the trams carry to switch points when the automatic switch either hasn't worked or isn't there. The side street is up apparently though in Dutch cities like Amsterdam side streets are generally laid with loose bricks that are easy to lift and put back. The track's normal use was as an emergency loop for trams coming up from the south (back then lines 16,24 and 25) so they could return if there was a blockage between Muntplein and Central Station. Clearly hadn't been needed in a while.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, whart57 said:

Found it

 

 

Interesting are the ad hoc tools being used, The guy on the right is using the rod the trams carry to switch points when the automatic switch either hasn't worked or isn't there. The side street is up apparently though in Dutch cities like Amsterdam side streets are generally laid with loose bricks that are easy to lift and put back. The track's normal use was as an emergency loop for trams coming up from the south (back then lines 16,24 and 25) so they could return if there was a blockage between Muntplein and Central Station. Clearly hadn't been needed in a while.

 

 

There seem to be a few student/tram enthusiast types in shot, I wonder if this is an all lines tour or the Dutch equivalent?, hence the requirement to clear out a line left to fall into disrepair as "it will never be needed again".

 

Mike.

 

Mike.

[John Isherwood]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

There seem to be a few student/tram enthusiast types in shot, I wonder if this is an all lines tour or the Dutch equivalent?, hence the requirement to clear out a line left to fall into disrepair as "it will never be needed again".

 

Mike.

 

Mike.

 

Looking immediately in front of the tram - the roadway has been ripped up and the gauge bars are exposed below the surface.

 

This is not just a one-off use of a little-used curve - something else has / is occurred / is occuring.

 

CJI.

[009 micro modeller]

11 hours ago, Ben B said:

spend 60 million quid on tea and biscuits for planning meetings

I don’t agree with all the other incompetence and bureaucracy but I like the sound of this bit, or would if it was applied to an organisation I work for…

😋

[Barry O]

9 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I don’t agree with all the other incompetence and bureaucracy but I like the sound of this bit, or would if it was applied to an organisation I work for…

😋

The tea would be cold, the biscuits plain and soggy and with LCC involved would be late and served separately...

 

@Ben B you missed some bits out.. 

 

Get rid of the trams.. not modern enough

Buy buses 

Cogitate..

Introduce guided bus lanes...

Introduce bendy buses..

Introduce the purple people eater super bendy buses..

Visit France to see a modern tram system..

Involve people who have no idea about trams...

Get money kicked out due to poor submission..

Great new idea.. Get trolley buses..

Incompetent consultants taken on.. who know nothing about trolleybuses..

Get the bid k8cked out..

Go for a super local network and redesign city roads to make it hard to get anywhere by car..and causes additional pollution..

Stop the intro of electric buses.. the charging system will kill anyone with a pacemaker if they walk on or past it (!yep!)

Give it to someone else to sort it.. who also has little idea on the complexities of it all...

 

Me? Cyn8cal?

 

No lived here far too long...

 

Baz

[roundhouse]

oops - wrong thread

 

Edited February 22 by roundhouse

[Ben B]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

The tea would be cold, the biscuits plain and soggy and with LCC involved would be late and served separately...

 

@Ben B you missed some bits out.. 

 

Get rid of the trams.. not modern enough

Buy buses 

Cogitate..

Introduce guided bus lanes...

Introduce bendy buses..

Introduce the purple people eater super bendy buses..

Visit France to see a modern tram system..

Involve people who have no idea about trams...

Get money kicked out due to poor submission..

Great new idea.. Get trolley buses..

Incompetent consultants taken on.. who know nothing about trolleybuses..

Get the bid k8cked out..

Go for a super local network and redesign city roads to make it hard to get anywhere by car..and causes additional pollution..

Stop the intro of electric buses.. the charging system will kill anyone with a pacemaker if they walk on or past it (!yep!)

Give it to someone else to sort it.. who also has little idea on the complexities of it all...

 

Me? Cyn8cal?

 

No lived here far too long...

 

Baz

 

There's an easy way to get Leeds their trams though;

 

"What's that? BRADFORD wants trams? that! Anything Bradford wants, Leeds gets first/instead!" :)

[whart57]

15 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Looking immediately in front of the tram - the roadway has been ripped up and the gauge bars are exposed below the surface.

 

This is not just a one-off use of a little-used curve - something else has / is occurred / is occuring.

 

CJI.

 

Tram tracks exposed with gauge bars showing was (is) not that unusual in Dutch cities where most side streets were (are) formed of bricks laid on a sand base much like our posher drive ways. When services work is required the whole lot was lifted but often the tram track left in place to minimise disruption to the tram service. There are signs that the road has been closed for roadworks on the left of the photo. In any case the tarmac scraping is not in the side street (Reguliersdwarsstraat) but in the main road (Vijzelstraat).

 

The other point to make is that the first thing to be removed when a tram track is taken out of use permanently is to take down the overhead. The fact the overhead was still in place and operational suggests the GVB still had a use for that section. Which was, as I posted earlier, as a return loop to truncate services if an accident or derailment prevented trams continuing on to the Central Station.

[whart57]

17 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

There seem to be a few student/tram enthusiast types in shot, I wonder if this is an all lines tour or the Dutch equivalent?, hence the requirement to clear out a line left to fall into disrepair as "it will never be needed again".

 

Mike.

 

Mike.

 

The handwritten DAT sign in the driver's window certainly suggests that sort of special, though the fact the overhead is still in place and functional suggests that the operations department of the GVB still regarded the line section as "needed". There were (are) certainly sections of tram tracks still in the road in Amsterdam but from which the overhead had been removed. But the "still needed" bit obviously hadn't been passed to the roads department at the council when they tarmacced the Vijzelstraat.

 

The type of tram used suggests a special too. The motor car has had 1000 added to the number which is painted on in a non-serif script. That means post 1967. By 1967 however line 5 had been a bus route for two years. The fact the tram has been fitted with line 5 corner lamps and a large 5 in the bow-collector is probably down to these bits still being in the stores. (The modern line 5 to Amstelveen follows a completely different route)

 

 

[Pacific231G]

On 21/02/2024 at 11:19, whart57 said:

I haven't been able to find the picture but in Amsterdam it has at various times been possible to hire a vintage tram set for occasions like weddings, the existence of the museum tramline in the south of the city with a connecting line to the main network makes that possible. That does mean that trams occasionally use tracks not in regular use. On a number of occasions this has required the chiselling out of tarmac from the rails while the bride patiently waits in the tram car.

A few years ago I was at IBC (the International Broadcasting Convention- a giant toy show for the television and radio industry )- at the RAI exhibition halls in Amsterdam  and staying in a hotel in the city, They'd laid on a vintage tram to provide a special service to RAI from the city centre and it was good fun to travel on it.  

Edited May 6 by Pacific231G
grammar

[Pacific231G]

On 20/02/2024 at 20:43, 33C said:

Amazing. Any history about their use?

 

On 20/02/2024 at 19:54, big jim said:

Rails down to the river in burnham on sea front 

Curious. I've been through the 25 inch maps in the NLS  and there's no sign of it but they only go up to 1930. Smaller scale maps go to about 1960 and, though I wouldn't expect them to show the railway, there is no sign of any development (like a yacht club or boatyard) before the present houses were built. The rails are  embedded in a roadway so I'd hazard a guess that, unless it was something left over from the war,  it was probably for launching smallish boats at high tide with a winch and cradle.   

I've detected the rails on Google Earth and where they are is roughly where a sand pit is marked just inland in the 1886 25 inch map but it had gone by the 1906 map and, with nothing else marked there ,I doubt if it was associated with any railway.   

UPDATE I found this note in the local weekly paper's website. 

"In the late 1920’s stone and rock arriving by rail for building the South Esplanade was transferred into narrow gauge trucks and pushed on rail lines laid down onto the beach and sand dunes."

https://www.burnhamandhighbridgeweeklynews.co.uk/news/16178030.looking-back-50-facts-burnham-on-sea-railway/

There is no sign of this in the OS maps from that period so the track must have been very temporary but this could be  vestige of that. 

Edited February 22 by Pacific231G

[33C]

A true sand pit to worm hole to discovery story. Great!

[25kV]

Could this be the answer?

 

"In the late 1920’s stone and rock arriving by rail for building the South Esplanade was transferred into narrow gauge trucks and pushed on rail lines laid down onto the beach and sand dunes."

 

https://www.burnhamandhighbridgeweeklynews.co.uk/news/16178030.looking-back-50-facts-burnham-on-sea-railway/

 

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, 25kV said:

Could this be the answer?

 

"In the late 1920’s stone and rock arriving by rail for building the South Esplanade was transferred into narrow gauge trucks and pushed on rail lines laid down onto the beach and sand dunes."

 

https://www.burnhamandhighbridgeweeklynews.co.uk/news/16178030.looking-back-50-facts-burnham-on-sea-railway/

 

 

See two posts up.

 

CJI.

[St Enodoc]

17 hours ago, Barry O said:

The tea would be cold, the biscuits plain and soggy and with LCC involved would be late and served separately...

...and not enough to go round?

[Re6/6]

Neatly maintained old tracks near Pontcysyllte Viaduct presumably for loading and unloading canal traffic. It's rather nice to see abandoned tracks looked after.

 

 

Edited March 18 by Re6/6

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, Re6/6 said:

Neatly maintained old tracks near Pontcysyllte Viaduct presumably for loading and unloading canal traffic. It's rather nice to see abandoned tracks looked after.

 

 

 

Anything to do with the Snailbeach Railway or the Glyn Valley Tramway?

 

CJI.