Chuffnell Regis

[Graham T]

Just now, Sasquatch said:

Might be more prototypical to just remove the vacuum cylinders on the LMS types. I don't ever recall seeing a fitted morton braked LMS cattle wagon. They were mostly 8 shoe clasp braked with some built by BR in 1949-50! 

 

Ah, ok.  Thanks.  I always like the path of least resistance, so the LMS wagons will now be unfitted!

[Neal Ball]

2 minutes ago, Graham T said:

Righto, a rummage has turned up a choice between .5mm wire, or .75mm square plastic rod.  Not sure which looks better?  I know the bar should run between the bottom of the W-irons, but there's almost no material there to fix them onto, and I'm thinking that from normal viewing distance it will be hard to tell the difference?  The wire would be stronger, of course...

 

So we have a choice of wire:

 

 

Or square plastic rod:

 

Personally I’d go for the wire.

[Graham T]

That's also the way I was leaning, to be honest.  Both finer, and stronger.

[John Besley]

10 hours ago, Graham T said:

A bit of late night and early morning tinkering, titivation, and firtling has been going on.  I fitted the steam pipes; the packet said that they are vacuum pipes, but I can't tell the difference!  I'm sure there are people out there who could tell me that I've fitted the wrong thing, but - Rule 1 🙂

 

I mentioned the seam on the chimney before.  It's not noticeable IRL so I'm leaving it alone!

 

 

Also, one of these handles on the tender had broken.  I knew that if I glued it back on it was just likely to get knocked off again at some point, so I replaced both of them with some .5mm wire.  Can some kind soul tell me what they are please?

 

 

 

Note the spooky headless fireman in the second pic!  You didn't know 3205 was haunted did you?

 

(It's actually just that he's looking down at something so you're seeing the top of his cap.  You can come out from behind the sofa now).

 

And the last task was to pop on some Railtec transfers.  These need some time to set now (any recommends on how long?) before a coat of matt varnish.

 

 

 

 

The hand brake stand is on the fireman's side with the tender water scoop handle on the driver's side - the give away is the water level indicator is beside that as well - this is the conical shaped column which has the float gauge in it.

 

The Steam heat pipe is the lower pipe and invariably is plain pipework not ribbed there is also the shut of valve on this where the pipe is fitted, the end fitting has a dog catch that matches up with its opposite number.

They are held in place to stop them swinging free when not in use by a short section of chain hanging from the bufferbeam

 

The Vac pipes do take a knack to line up as these are held closed with a clevis pin between them

 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by John Besley
Correction

[Graham T]

Thank you John.  That's one of the things I enjoy about this forum, always learning!  I will need to order some more steam heating pipes then, I think.

[Graham T]

At least I don't need to worry about steam heating pipes on these 🙂

 

The two Bachmann ones are done, save paint on the tiebars and some weathering - no limewash!  That can wait for tomorrow though.

 

[John Besley]

20 minutes ago, Graham T said:

Thank you John.  That's one of the things I enjoy about this forum, always learning!  I will need to order some more steam heating pipes then, I think.

 

Just another point the tender plates behind the 2 lockers ... To stop coal cascading down onto the footplate when I fired 3205 on the SDR I always wedged a cut down scaffold plank across there to hold the coal back this slotted down between the lockers and the tender plates work.

 

There is also a trip cock beside the handbrake column to dump the tender vacuum once you'd uncoupled ... This is also why we always left one vacuum pipe off the plug on tank engines when using the locos steam brake only on light engine movements

[Graham T]

28 minutes ago, John Besley said:

 

Just another point the tender plates behind the 2 lockers ... To stop coal cascading down onto the footplate when I fired 3205 on the SDR I always wedged a cut down scaffold plank across there to hold the coal back this slotted down between the lockers and the tender plates work.

 

Is this what you mean?  This is on the Dapol Mogul.  Might be a nice little detail to add to 3205.  I should put some proper coal in 6385 as well...

 

 

 

[John Besley]

3 minutes ago, Graham T said:

 

Is this what you mean?  This is on the Dapol Mogul.  Might be a nice little detail to add to 3205.  I should put some proper coal in 6385 as well...

 

 

 

 

That's it, otherwise you'd end up with a cab full of coal

[Bluemonkey presents....]

12 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

Only if they are set up with power brakes so that they can travel in passenger trains or express goods. The bars are there to prevent the W irons distorting under heavy braking. Non fitted wagons don't have this problem. I remember having a similar discussion with @Bluemonkey presents....on his thread as we were both working on earlier W1 diagram cattle wagons, some of which were rebuilt with vacuum brakes to diagram W5. These were the old Cooper Craft kits which are no longer produced.

 

Agreed, we came to the conclusion that in general the GWR W1 were unfitted and without a tie bar and the W5 were fitted and with a tie bar.

 

11 hours ago, Graham T said:

Righto, a rummage has turned up a choice between .5mm wire, or .75mm square plastic rod.  Not sure which looks better?  I know the bar should run between the bottom of the W-irons, but there's almost no material there to fix them onto, and I'm thinking that from normal viewing distance it will be hard to tell the difference?  The wire would be stronger, of course...

 

I have used thin brass strip superglued behind the riveted base of the W irons (more surface area to attach). Once painted you do not really notice them. I would steer away from plastic as this has a tendency to be broken when handle or even stored and is a to fix. Whereas brass does not snap easily and should it come away just glue back on.

 

 

[Graham T]

What size is the strip you used please @Bluemonkey presents....?

[Bluemonkey presents....]

4 hours ago, Graham T said:

What size is the strip you used please @Bluemonkey presents....?

 

For these I used Cambrian C300 brass tie bars for 12" wheelbase and I snipped the riveted 'tie' part off to use the plain flats. They are approximately 1mm top to bottom. They do not fir the full length behind the W iron 'tie' but some quality and strong super glue seems to do the trick. Mine are still attached.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Bluemonkey presents....
product ref number

[Graham T]

Perfect, thanks.  Now to find somewhere in Vienna to buy brass strip...

[Graham T]

So, that's the first of the Dapol cattle wagons updated - a bit, anyway.  Still not a match for the Bachmann model, but an improvement on where it was.  I did try to open up the (drainage?) gaps between the lower planks, but they are actually quite solidly filled, so I might running some dark paint into them instead and see how that looks.  The wagon obviously needs paint anyway, and I will try to make the factory applied weathering look a little less cr@p!

 

This pic nicely shows the benefits of scale couplings though.  I'm getting the knack of manipulating them now, although fitting the so and so's is still a bit of a trial.  And ready-made screw links are like the dead budgie - they're not going cheap!  🥸

 

[Andy Keane]

5 minutes ago, Graham T said:

So, that's the first of the Dapol cattle wagons updated - a bit, anyway.  Still not a match for the Bachmann model, but an improvement on where it was.  I did try to open up the (drainage?) gaps between the lower planks, but they are actually quite solidly filled, so I might running some dark paint into them instead and see how that looks.  The wagon obviously needs paint anyway, and I will try to make the factory applied weathering look a little less cr@p!

 

This pic nicely shows the benefits of scale couplings though.  I'm getting the knack of manipulating them now, although fitting the so and so's is still a bit of a trial.  And ready-made screw links are like the dead budgie - they're not going cheap!  🥸

 

I agree the couplings look great but I cannot cope with the faff of three link when shunting so have adopted kadee ones as being not too obtrusive but still self-locking. I admire your commitment!

I think maybe I will do the full three link job on some groups that will be forever joined such as b sets and maybe some collections of cattle and coal trucks.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Andy Keane

[Graham T]

Looks are more important to me than operating Andy (just as well with my wonky trackwork), so it's not (quite) such a big deal.  But you make a good point about keeping some stock grouped together.  I will try to do that, but would need a proper fiddle yard really, which I don't have room for.  Some sort of cassettes maybe?

[Andy Keane]

3 hours ago, Graham T said:

Looks are more important to me than operating Andy (just as well with my wonky trackwork), so it's not (quite) such a big deal.  But you make a good point about keeping some stock grouped together.  I will try to do that, but would need a proper fiddle yard really, which I don't have room for.  Some sort of cassettes maybe?

Graham

Have you seen the DCC Concepts boxes that you can drive stock in and out of? I have a short one and its very nice that holds a single loco or a 14xx plus auto coach. I priced up a full storage system based on these which worked out about £1200 so not really possible. But it has set me thinking of making my own. the idea is you keep full train groups together, each in a box. Place it on the track when you want it and drive it out or back. Then keep the individual boxes in a storage rack of some kind. Given laser cut ply this may be affordable but I would need to source the conductive rails. I see people use brass L section for this but to work properly you have to machine down the bit that actually sits on the track to about 0.5mm thickness and given it would need lengths of around five or six foot to work that is not simple although I do have access to the machine tools to do such jobs. DCC Concepts extruded theirs in aluminium. But talking to their development manager I think they are working on something in this space so I am not rushing.

regards

Andy

[Graham T]

After a reasonable amount of fiddling, faffing, and firtling, spread through the day - with a sprinkling of profanity here and there just to keep things interesting - the first stage of work on the cattle wagons is done.  The bars are .5mm wire, left over from a Ratio cattle dock appropriately enough, and the vac pipes are MJT white-metal castings.  Couplings are all from Smiths.  Some painting and weathering may ensue tomorrow, which I suspect I'll find a bit more relaxing!

 

[Graham T]

2 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Graham

Have you seen the DCC Concepts boxes that you can drive stock in and out of? I have a short one and its very nice that holds a single loco or a 14xx plus auto coach. I priced up a full storage system based on these which worked out about £1200 so not really possible. But it has set me thinking of making my own. the idea is you keep full train groups together, each in a box. Place it on the track when you want it and drive it out or back. Then keep the individual boxes in a storage rack of some kind. Given laser cut ply this may be affordable but I would need to source the conductive rails. I see people use brass L section for this but to work properly you have to machine down the bit that actually sits on the track to about 0.5mm thickness and given it would need lengths of around five or six foot to work that is not simple although I do have access to the machine tools to do such jobs. DCC Concepts extruded theirs in aluminium. But talking to their development manager I think they are working on something in this space so I am not rushing.

regards

Andy

 

That sounds interesting Andy and I think is the sort of solution I'd also find best suited to my needs.  It amazes me how expensive some of these bespoke solutions (as in the DCC Concepts one) are though.  I saw a thread about stock storage boxes the other day, I think it might have been @aardvark was looking for some, and one of the links was to what looked essentially the same as the plastic stacking boxes you can pick up just about anywhere; these came with foam inserts as well, admittedly, but the prices being asked for them were, frankly, extortionate.

 

Anyway, rant over!  If you come up with a plan please post it on the forum, I'll be interested as I said.  One question - why do people use aluminium or brass section in cassettes for the stock to run on?  Why not just bog standard rail, with a male-female chock-block or similar to connect it to the power supply?  I'm probably missing something fundamental though - it has been known to happen before...

[Neal Ball]

The reason to use angle aluminium for a stock box is simply that it can be placed on the rail and you simply drive the train on.

 

Plus of course it then has the strength to hold the loco etc.

 

I have one of the DCC concepts ones and it’s very good.

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

The reason to use angle aluminium for a stock box is simply that it can be placed on the rail and you simply drive the train on.

 

Plus of course it then has the strength to hold the loco etc.

 

I have one of the DCC concepts ones and it’s very good.

Yes they are really well made and thought out but I looked at wanting about eight of their 1150mm long ones and nearly fell off my stool when I saw the price. Also they no longer make those it seems. I do wonder if we got a community project together we could in fact commission enough aluminium to make up an order and then get one of the baseboard firms to cut the ply so that we ended up with self assembly kits at a reasonable price.

[CoombeTown]

My custom solution, just done a rough costing. ~£20 + ply per Cassette, not really dependent on length. You could do it for less if you owned a 3D FDM printer and used a less UV resistant material.

 

25mm x 25mm x 3.2mm aluminium L pieces on a 6mm ply base.

 

You also have to account for the aluminium base sheets where it's mounted and the adaptor, but they're not too bad in the scheme of things.

 

Overall Cassette

 

Adaptor

 

the connection between the two

 

The shelf storage solution

 

Happy to share the .stl files for the 3D printed elements via PM if anyone is interested.

 

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, DRoe96 said:

My custom solution, just done a rough costing. ~£20 + ply per Cassette, not really dependent on length. You could do it for less if you owned a 3D FDM printer and used a less UV resistant material.

 

25mm x 25mm x 3.2mm aluminium L pieces on a 6mm ply base.

 

You also have to account for the aluminium base sheets where it's mounted and the adaptor, but they're not too bad in the scheme of things.

 

Overall Cassette

 

Adaptor

 

the connection between the two

 

The shelf storage solution

 

Happy to share the .stl files for the 3D printed elements via PM if anyone is interested.

 

Yes this cassette approach really works well if you want to but your cassette up against a part of the track. What I want is a cassette that sits on top of existing track in my fiddle yard. So your handles would be perfect but I would have to machine down the aluminium L section as per the DCC concepts approach and that's the tedious bit. Also you cannot have the wooden bit between the rails either so the bits that go up and over have to hold it all square. These pics show the DCC Concepts sections and I have slide the cassette to the max left and you can see there is a bit of play to allow the section to deal with slightly out of true track. They have a really nice video on their site showing locos driving in and out.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Andy Keane

[Graham T]

Thanks for all these suggestions gents, some very useful food for thought here.  The thinking cap is on!

[Graham T]

So that's the first stage of painting the cattle wagons done.  Tiebars, vac pipes etc painted with Tamiya dark grey, I also daubed that over the underframes and lower panels of the two weathered Dapol wagons, which has improved them no end I think.  Looking at it, I will probably put some of the same colour on the unweathered Dapol wagon (the third from the right).  I painted the roofs of the Bachmann wagons with a dark grey Vallejo mix, and the same for the Toad.  A pin wash will be next.  The eagle-eyed might notice that I haven't bothered to couple the wagons - I'll be taking them all back to the workbench later today, so there didn't seem to be much point!