Chuffnell Regis

[NHY 581]

Have a look at Shipston on Stour, Graham. 

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/shipstononstour.htm

 

Some great out buildings around the goods shed.......

 

Rob. 

 

 

[Graham T]

Echoes of the shed thread...

[Graham T]

This is what caught my eye, from Paul Karau's book.  Would make a nice little scene in that space in between the shed and the front of the baseboard, I thought.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Graham T
Forgot the photo...

[BroadLeaves]

23 minutes ago, Graham T said:

My thinking was that the railway wouldn't want to buy any more land than they actually needed

It doesn't always work that way. You have to buy what's for sale. Imagine you were buying a house with a 60ft long garden and you're not really into gardening, but like the house itself. How do you think the vendor would react if you said "I'd like the house but only some of the garden?" Their reaction is likely to be "So what do I do with the bit that's left? Either buy the whole thing or nothing." You don't always get to pick and choose what you buy. You've modelled some hills on the other side of the bridge. That tells me that flat land is in short supply round Chuffnell Regis way. The railway would need this flat bit. The farmer may not need the railway's money. It's not like the railway can just go and buy another field half a mile up the road. They might not be in a strong bargaining position and may have to accept whatever the farmer says is the deal.

If this was farmland (and most land is and certainly was more than 50 years ago), then it would have been a field, going down to the river. Given the landscape you've modelled elsewhere, which is quite steep, it's going to be livestock, not arable. You can't plough steep land and those rocks you have the other side of the bridge will play merry hell with a plough. So, it's animals on the land before the railway comes. It'll probably be marked out with a stock-proof hedge of something like blackthorn, as that is pretty much impossible for an animal to get through (they try to push through nose first and blackthorn spines are very sharp) but the field boundary will go down to the river. Having livestock in a field with running water is a really good idea and no farmer is going to put a barrier between their livestock and free water. The field that the railway buy will have one edge running along the river bank.

The other thing I think it would be useful to do is to look at the whole layout. You're only thinking of this side of the engine shed, but there's railway the other side too. If you take up all the track and buildings and put it back as it was before the railway came, where are the field boundaries? What you do for this side of the engine shed has to tie in with what you do the other side, that we can't see in the pictures and so has been a bit ignored, but would all be part of the same single purchase by the railway.

[Graham T]

That's some very useful food for thought - thanks!

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, Graham T said:

This is what caught my eye, from Paul Karau's book.  Would make a nice little scene in that space in between the shed and the front of the baseboard, I thought.

 

 

You beat me to it with that photo Graham, I was going to post it because rather than the usual grounded van it's actually an early horsebox complete with groom's compartment.

[Graham T]

I'm going to order an old Lima horse box.  Won't be completely accurate but I don't think that matters too much, as it's going to get butchered anyway

[5BarVT]

1 hour ago, BroadLeaves said:

It doesn't always work that way. You have to buy what's for sale.

Agreed if you’re just buying property.  But wouldn’t this have been compulsory purchase with the backing of the parliamentary act?

Paul.

[5BarVT]

1 hour ago, BroadLeaves said:

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by 5BarVT
Deleted double post

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, BroadLeaves said:

It doesn't always work that way. You have to buy what's for sale. Imagine you were buying a house with a 60ft long garden and you're not really into gardening, but like the house itself. How do you think the vendor would react if you said "I'd like the house but only some of the garden?" Their reaction is likely to be "So what do I do with the bit that's left? Either buy the whole thing or nothing." You don't always get to pick and choose what you buy. You've modelled some hills on the other side of the bridge. That tells me that flat land is in short supply round Chuffnell Regis way. The railway would need this flat bit. The farmer may not need the railway's money. It's not like the railway can just go and buy another field half a mile up the road. They might not be in a strong bargaining position and may have to accept whatever the farmer says is the deal.

If this was farmland (and most land is and certainly was more than 50 years ago), then it would have been a field, going down to the river. Given the landscape you've modelled elsewhere, which is quite steep, it's going to be livestock, not arable. You can't plough steep land and those rocks you have the other side of the bridge will play merry hell with a plough. So, it's animals on the land before the railway comes. It'll probably be marked out with a stock-proof hedge of something like blackthorn, as that is pretty much impossible for an animal to get through (they try to push through nose first and blackthorn spines are very sharp) but the field boundary will go down to the river. Having livestock in a field with running water is a really good idea and no farmer is going to put a barrier between their livestock and free water. The field that the railway buy will have one edge running along the river bank.

The other thing I think it would be useful to do is to look at the whole layout. You're only thinking of this side of the engine shed, but there's railway the other side too. If you take up all the track and buildings and put it back as it was before the railway came, where are the field boundaries? What you do for this side of the engine shed has to tie in with what you do the other side, that we can't see in the pictures and so has been a bit ignored, but would all be part of the same single purchase by the railway.

Which is of course great in the ideal world, but we are modelling a section of that and generally (unless you have the scale and scope of Pendon) is not what is going to be on our model railways….

[Graham T]

I think that, whatever I finally opt to do, there will have to be a fairly hefty dollop of Rule 1 applied...

[Neal Ball]

2 hours ago, Graham T said:

….although it might not be needed because of the office space at the back of the shed - I'd quite like to have something like this, just because I like the idea of it!  (Rule 1 and all that).  Along the lines of this at Fairford:

 

 

So in my pic above the small black rectangle would be the lamp hut, and the larger one a grounded horse box.

I like this photo, full of bucolic charm…. However….

 

1 hour ago, Graham T said:

This is what caught my eye, from Paul Karau's book.  Would make a nice little scene in that space in between the shed and the front of the baseboard, I thought.

 

Nice idea…. But….

 

29 minutes ago, Graham T said:

I'm going to order an old Lima horse box.  Won't be completely accurate but I don't think that matters too much, as it's going to get butchered anyway

Ok so my point is…. These photos are showing something from the 50’s or 60’s that wouldn’t be out of place in that time….

 

As we are talking about a time 20 years earlier… certainly preWW2; which I bet would be considered a lifetime away in terms of 30’s vs 50’s I bet it would be very different.

 

We know old vehicles were utilised for different purposes and in the 50’s we are talking about thrift and make do and mend. The 30’s was a very different time…. Bob the driver and Sam the fireman wouldn’t worry about being in a van with a stove in 1935; because that was ok…. But a horse box? In the 50’s after the war, they would be grateful for the shelter..

 

Plus the van would be closer to the engine shed, at the front, not the back.

 

Hope that helps your deliberations.

[BroadLeaves]

17 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

But wouldn’t this have been compulsory purchase with the backing of the parliamentary act?

Not necessarily. Having a parliamentary act doesn't give a railway the right to purchase whatever it likes. The field may not have been included in the schedule for that Act. The engine shed could have been build many years later than the main line. The 1994 Railways Act, for example, gives CPO powers only until the end of 1997.

[Neal Ball]

1 minute ago, BroadLeaves said:

Not necessarily. Having a parliamentary act doesn't give a railway the right to purchase whatever it likes. The field may not have been included in the schedule for that Act. The engine shed could have been build many years later than the main line. The 1994 Railways Act, for example, gives CPO powers only until the end of 1997.

Unlikely.

 

A branch line being built in those days would include all the land that was needed…. Unless we are talking about a line that has been upgraded in line with the government scheme in the 30’s 

 

I  which case we would see a depot the size of Didcot being built and that doesn’t suit Chuffnel Regis.

 

With the scope of the railway, this would have been built at the opening.

[Graham T]

8 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

I like this photo, full of bucolic charm…. However….

 

Nice idea…. But….

 

Ok so my point is…. These photos are showing something from the 50’s or 60’s that wouldn’t be out of place in that time….

 

As we are talking about a time 20 years earlier… certainly preWW2; which I bet would be considered a lifetime away in terms of 30’s vs 50’s I bet it would be very different.

 

We know old vehicles were utilised for different purposes and in the 50’s we are talking about thrift and make do and mend. The 30’s was a very different time…. Bob the driver and Sam the fireman wouldn’t worry about being in a van with a stove in 1935; because that was ok…. But a horse box? In the 50’s after the war, they would be grateful for the shelter..

 

Plus the van would be closer to the engine shed, at the front, not the back.

 

Hope that helps your deliberations.

 

Thanks Neal, but unfortunately (?) I just clicked "Buy" on the old Lima horse box - so back to Rule 1 we go!

[Neal Ball]

Just now, Graham T said:

 

Thanks Neal, but unfortunately (?) I just clicked "Buy" on the old Lima horse box - so back to Rule 1 we go!

I will send a note to Bob and Sam on your behalf 

[BroadLeaves]

2 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

A branch line being built in those days

Which days? When was the original line built? It's entirely possible that the line was built in stages, and even by different companies. Only @Graham T knows the true history of the place.

Also, don't forget that governments can't plan things properly now...

...and that, at least, hasn't changed much in the last 100 years!

[MrWolf]

I'm sure that I recall reading that the horsebox was in that spot well before WWII. I think that it replaced a small coach body. 

Need to find my book now!

[Graham T]

Just now, MrWolf said:

I'm sure that I recall reading that the horsebox was in that spot well before WWII. I think that it replaced a small coach body. 

Need to find my book now!

 

Let me know what you find, there's a good chap - I'm off for a drink!

[MrWolf]

I was wrong about the coach body. Around 1890, there was an engine man's hut inside the loco shed. At some point that was demolished and the horsebox set up. It had been there long enough to appear on the 1950 plan of the site and given the state of it, I think that it's pretty safe to believe that it had probably been there a decade or more.

[John Besley]

That's going to work as a store for loco oil, cotton waste, lighting up wood etc. 

 

Just one consideration, these would normally arrive from the works on s welltroll with their running gear cut off and be craned into place within reach of the track.... If you place this too far away how did the body get to that location? 

 

Might be better off alongside the shed ... Is the track from the turntable going to be extended out in the direction of the river simply as a place to park some stores wagons 

[John Besley]

Duplicated post 

Edited March 14, 2022 by John Besley
Correction

[GWR57xx]

Maybe the enginemen had some allotments here?

If you bring the railway boundary in a bit like Neal suggested, maybe the neighbouring field has a few sheep?

[Graham T]

10 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I was wrong about the coach body. Around 1890, there was an engine man's hut inside the loco shed. At some point that was demolished and the horsebox set up. It had been there long enough to appear on the 1950 plan of the site and given the state of it, I think that it's pretty safe to believe that it had probably been there a decade or more.

 

Thanks Rob, that fits the plan then (such as it is - more a matter of organic growth than planning here!)

[Barclay]

Have you considered a sand drier? They took various forms but a smallish brick hut with an unusually large chimney and the front partially open to show the furnace seems a common design, not to mention an excuse for extra traffic. I'm no expert but perusal of GWR Sheds in Camera (OPC) also shows that a varied assortment of huts, both brick and corrugated, was common.